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At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

You linking absolutely everything to Islam is ****ing annoying.

Have you thought this occured due to political shifts within India and that region? No? Or did you read India and assume it happened because Islam ordered it on people or that a few sick individuals done this.

You know what, how about i start posting every killing that occurs in the western world and blame it on Christianity and Judaism
Hey, you know what. A father raped his two daughters and got them pregnant 19 times over a number of years. What religion do you think i should lay the blame at? :doh

God forbid people link "breaking news" in the breaking news section.

Bring whatever you want to dig up to the table. We'll discuss and debate it, but untill then... stop playing the blame game.

BTW, nothing need be assumed... see below.

A previously unknown Islamic militant group claimed responsibility for the carnage, the latest in a series of nationwide terror attacks over the past three years that have dented India's image as an industrious nation galloping toward prosperity

101 killed as gunmen rampage in India city - Yahoo! News
 
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Seeing the OP has done this many times, i have a reason to be annoyed.
Hell, alot of this posts seem to always include 'religion of peace .... '

How about keep an eye on the actual topic without blaming it on a religion [Islam] every time? Or is he incapable of actually sticking to the topic?

Hell, you can see it on breaking news twice! Not only in this thread but another he added his oh-so famous line.

And on topic:
This seems to have occured because those gunmen want some of the 'prisoners' released by the Indians hence why they are holding foreigners hostage not to mention they seem determined in destroying India's beautiful building as it holds some form of significance.
 
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God forbid people link "breaking news" in the breaking news section.

Bring whatever you want to dig up to the table. We'll discuss and debate it, but untill then... stop playing the blame game.

That's not what she's saying. She is commenting on the habits of certain posters, here, to vilify Islam, no matter what. Islamic EXTREMISTSdid these acts in India. This is a reflection on Islamic EXTREMISTS not on Islam, and attempts to show otherwise are just overgeneralizations and stereotypes. But these posters have already had this pointed out to them many times. They don't care, and keep doing it, no matter how wrong the continue to be.
 
That's not what she's saying. She is commenting on the habits of certain posters, here, to vilify Islam, no matter what. Islamic EXTREMISTSdid these acts in India. This is a reflection on Islamic EXTREMISTS not on Islam, and attempts to show otherwise are just overgeneralizations and stereotypes. But these posters have already had this pointed out to them many times. They don't care, and keep doing it, no matter how wrong the continue to be.

Regardless of his intent. He is still posting breaking news, and I was under the impression that we are to debate the topic rather than the poster?

And sure, extremists paint an entire group red. But I would still like to see what's going on and possibly have a go at the determining factors.
 
Seeing the OP has done this many times, i have a reason to be annoyed.
Hell, alot of this posts seem to always include 'religion of peace .... '

How about keep an eye on the actual topic without blaming it on a religion [Islam] every time? Or is he incapable of actually sticking to the topic?

It would be easier to do so if these groups did not claim Islam. They do, so this gives people like him ammunition. Try debunking their relation to the religion instead of fighting with him about his own intentions, you will see a much better result.
 
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Perhaps im reading the wrong links or newspapers but judging by BBC, Guardian, Independent and the Times. Where in that link he posted does it say Islam had a role to play in this shooting? This is politics; anyone with a slight understanding of that region will know conflict between India and other groups has always been around - this one in particular seemed to be intent on destablizing the country.

Seeing this attack seemed to be directed at British and Americans, where does it state Islam had influenced this?
Al Qaeda is apparentley behind this and we all know Islam has barely anything to do with why they hate US or why they would want to attack it.


How about deal with the impossible. Islam is not the deciding factor in this attack but as usual certain posters seem more intent on attacking Islam as a whole rather than the extremists who are behind this.
 
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Regardless of his intent. He is still posting breaking news, and I was under the impression that we are to debate the topic rather than the poster?

If someone misrepresents the information, by painting the picture that an act like this should be attributed to all of Islam, it is fair game to confront that poster on their information. Overgeneralized information is a logical fallacy in debate. Confronting it is appropriate and in the context of the news story.

And sure, extremists paint an entire group red. But I would still like to see what's going on and possibly have a go at the determining factors.

That's fine...as would I. But in the appropriate context. Laila is Islamic, I believe. The fact that she does not agree with what extremist Islamics do shows that SgtRock's assertion is erroneous and proven incorrect. The determining factors are the desire for the extremists to have some of their members released, and to adhere to their skewed version of Islam. Perhaps that's what we should be discussing.
 
It would be easier to do so if these groups did not claim Islam. They do, so this gives people like him ammunition. Try debunking their relation to the religion instead of fighting with him about his own intentions, you will see a much better result.

I disagree. Both must be done. To eliminate this kind of stereotyping, one must stop it from both ends.
 
ILaila is Islamic, I believe. The fact that she does not agree with what extremist Islamics do shows that SgtRock's assertion is erroneous and proven incorrect.

Im a Muslim yes and i don't see where anyone would get the impression Muslims as a whole would agree with any form of attack on civilians.
I think its disgusting what has occured and i hope UK Government aids India in catching these criminals and bringing them to justice.
 
If someone misrepresents the information, by painting the picture that an act like this should be attributed to all of Islam, it is fair game to confront that poster on their information. Overgeneralized information is a logical fallacy in debate. Confronting it is appropriate and in the context of the news story.

I see. Thank you for the clarification.



That's fine...as would I. But in the appropriate context. Laila is Islamic, I believe. The fact that she does not agree with what extremist Islamics do shows that SgtRock's assertion is erroneous and proven incorrect. The determining factors are the desire for the extremists to have some of their members released, and to adhere to their skewed version of Islam. Perhaps that's what we should be discussing.

Perhaps indeed. I somehow don't see this topic going too far as most people are either ignorant to islam as far as it's philosophy goes, or already somewhat biased as what we have seen all too often are "extremists" claiming islam as their guidance for the terrible things they are doing. See the above suggestion to Laila.
 
I disagree. Both must be done. To eliminate this kind of stereotyping, one must stop it from both ends.

Telling someone they're wrong rarely helps your cause.

SHOWING someone they are wrong however can have quite a potent effect. If he/she were to remove the "terrorists" from the religion by way of knowledge, her arguement could not be denied and if people like the OP continued to argue that the religion itself is to blame, well... I'm sure you know how well that would go.

Who knows, you may even change the OP's mind with a little edumacation ;)
 
Im a Muslim yes and i don't see where anyone would get the impression Muslims as a whole would agree with any form of attack on civilians.
I think its disgusting what has occured and i hope UK Government aids India in catching these criminals and bringing them to justice.

I believe that THIS post is a better descriptor of the religion of peace than anything that some of our anti-Islamic posters could possibly attribute Islam to...especially since it was spoke by an Islamic, something that none of them are.
 
I believe that THIS post is a better descriptor of the religion of peace than anything that some of our anti-Islamic posters could possibly attribute Islam to...especially since it was spoke by an Islamic, something that none of them are.

I agree and i do hope more Muslims are vocal about their disgust with these sorts of actions but it is a minority who perform these actions and it is almost always linked with politics in some form but just use religion as a cover up for it.

Alot of those posters who tend to be anti islamic ignore the surahs or passages within the Qu'ran that are more than tolerant. More surahs speak about negotiation tolerance and peace compared to a minority that [linked with war] speak about violence.

Lets face it, if Islam disappeared off the face of the earth tomorrow. Half the problems would still exist seeing they all have a basis on politics and they'd find something else to use to justify the actions.
 
Telling someone they're wrong rarely helps your cause.

SHOWING someone they are wrong however can have quite a potent effect. If he/she were to remove the "terrorists" from the religion by way of knowledge, her arguement could not be denied and if people like the OP continued to argue that the religion itself is to blame, well... I'm sure you know how well that would go.

Who knows, you may even change the OP's mind with a little edumacation ;)

Been there, done that, more times than I can count, shown they were wrong in more ways than you would imagine, my friend. Some around here refuse to listen to things they do not want to hear, no matter how wrong they are. Sometimes, one must be a bit forceful.

Also, understanding the closed-mindedness of some people's positions on things like this, changing someone's mind is not the objective. It won't happen. Shredding their position is.
 
Been there, done that, more times than I can count, shown they were wrong in more ways than you would imagine, my friend. Some around here refuse to listen to things they do not want to hear, no matter how wrong they are. Sometimes, one must be a bit forceful.

Also, understanding the closed-mindedness of some people's positions on things like this, changing someone's mind is not the objective. It won't happen. Shredding their position is.

Either way, simply saying "I am this and you are wrong" will have less of an impact imo.

Providing the information disproving what they are saying... that is what gets 'er done. Not necessarily to the ignorant dolts who think everyone with xxxx tag is the same. But at the very least, to someone else looking in.
 
I agree and i do hope more Muslims are vocal about their disgust with these sorts of actions but it is a minority who perform these actions and it is almost always linked with politics in some form but just use religion as a cover up for it.

Alot of those posters who tend to be anti islamic ignore the surahs or passages within the Qu'ran that are more than tolerant. More surahs speak about negotiation tolerance and peace compared to a minority that [linked with war] speak about violence.

Lets face it, if Islam disappeared off the face of the earth tomorrow. Half the problems would still exist seeing they all have a basis on politics and they'd find something else to use to justify the actions.

The point that I always make around this issue...and any issue similar is this. Islam did not cause these actions to occur. It is the people, their interpretation of Islam and their own mindset that caused these things to occur. Without Islam, they would have used something else to justify their actions. We see this all throughout history with, pretty much, every religion, ideology, nationality, etc... It's people's perceptions and interpretations that are the problem, not the conceptual belief system. Those that blame Islam are about as bad as those who pervert Islam.
 
Either way, simply saying "I am this and you are wrong" will have less of an impact imo.

Providing the information disproving what they are saying... that is what gets 'er done. Not necessarily to the ignorant dolts who think everyone with xxxx tag is the same. But at the very least, to someone else looking in.

I'm not disagreeing with you, and I think that, though brief, the exposure of the usage of extremists to define an entire group has been shown, here...by you also in the response towards Perry Logan. ;) And, trust me, others will see this. Most will recognize the extremism and overgeneralization, quickly.
 
The point that I always make around this issue...and any issue similar is this. Islam did not cause these actions to occur. It is the people, their interpretation of Islam and their own mindset that caused these things to occur. Without Islam, they would have used something else to justify their actions. We see this all throughout history with, pretty much, every religion, ideology, nationality, etc... It's people's perceptions and interpretations that are the problem, not the conceptual belief system. Those that blame Islam are about as bad as those who pervert Islam.

Exactly, that is what i try and point out but is usually ignored.

Interpretations of texts is what is the problem and yes, i do believe Islam needs to be reformed to not only prevent extremists exploiting certain verses but also to bring it more into the modern world. Ishallah i hope my Imams will clarify the Qu'ran's position on suicide bombings and killing innocent people lowering the chances of Muslims believing that interpretation of the Qu'ran.
I do want certain verses in my holy book denounced world wide but not removed and i would rather we start seeing a united condemntation by all Muslim countries of actions done in Islams name.

Another major issue is that unsurprisingly alot of Muslims are illiterate and therefore rely heavily on the Imam or Sheikh's for the Qu'ran teachings and if the Imam is corrupt it will eventually trickle down to those learning from them.

I wouldn't say no to harsher punishments of those who do act in Islam's name wrongly.
 
I'm not disagreeing with you, and I think that, though brief, the exposure of the usage of extremists to define an entire group has been shown, here...by you also in the response towards Perry Logan. ;) And, trust me, others will see this. Most will recognize the extremism and overgeneralization, quickly.

Most is a large number to live up to don't ya think? :2razz:

But it goes beyond the extremist actions in just THIS thread. I understand laila's frustration at the OP for posting every Islamic related story he can dig up... but it needs to be squashed effectively so as to not convert more people to the "douchebaggery" that is blind ignorance.

In another thread he posted a couple quotes from the Qu'ran that could possibly be misleading. Things like THAT amplify the story being presented here. And people who are/were on the fence tend to be swayed by that kind of stuff. Not by one person saying "You're wrong" but possibly by one person saying "This is why they do not qualify as Muslim" etc.
 
Not by one person saying "You're wrong" but possibly by one person saying "This is why they do not qualify as Muslim" etc.

So you want me to prove him wrong by posting Qu'ran verses contradicting his view on Islam and explaining to him why they are not even Muslim let alone this has anything to do with Islam?
 
I agree and i do hope more Muslims are vocal about their disgust with these sorts of actions but it is a minority who perform these actions and it is almost always linked with politics in some form but just use religion as a cover up for it.

Alot of those posters who tend to be anti islamic ignore the surahs or passages within the Qu'ran that are more than tolerant. More surahs speak about negotiation tolerance and peace compared to a minority that [linked with war] speak about violence.

Lets face it, if Islam disappeared off the face of the earth tomorrow. Half the problems would still exist seeing they all have a basis on politics and they'd find something else to use to justify the actions.


Some people can not help but to focus on the bad. There is some pretty nasty stuff in the Bible as well.
 
Exactly, that is what i try and point out but is usually ignored.

Interpretations of texts is what is the problem and yes, i do believe Islam needs to be reformed to not only prevent extremists exploiting certain verses but also to bring it more into the modern world. Ishallah i hope my Imams will clarify the Qu'ran's position on suicide bombings and killing innocent people lowering the chances of Muslims believing that interpretation of the Qu'ran.
I do want
certain verses in my holy book denounced world wide but not removed and i would rather we start seeing a united condemntation by all Muslim countries of actions done in Islams name.

Another major issue is that unsurprisingly alot of Muslims are illiterate and therefore rely heavily on the Imam or Sheikh's for the Qu'ran teachings and if the Imam is corrupt it will eventually trickle down to those learning from them.

I wouldn't say no to harsher punishments of those who do act in Islam's name wrongly.

Thank you, this kind of information is what I was digging for.
 
Some people can not help but to focus on the bad. There is some pretty nasty stuff in the Bible as well.

I know but i never use another religion as an arguement. I know there are questionable verses in the Bible but i would never dare to presume that the majority of Christians follow it
 
I know but i never use another religion as an arguement. I know there are questionable verses in the Bible but i would never dare to presume that the majority of Christians follow it

Don't be so quick to avoid that one... :lol:

Don't just read the bible, look throughout history. People have claimed "God" for their reasoning in a LOT of heinous crimes.
 
I know but i never use another religion as an arguement. I know there are questionable verses in the Bible but i would never dare to presume that the majority of Christians follow it

Good to met ya :2wave:
 
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