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Thread: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Perhaps im reading the wrong links or newspapers but judging by BBC, Guardian, Independent and the Times. Where in that link he posted does it say Islam had a role to play in this shooting? This is politics;
    For the Islamist religion and politics are one in the same, that's the very thing that makes them Islamists, IE political Islam which is a plague across the entire globe much like the totalitarian ideologies of Communism and Fascism before it.

    anyone with a slight understanding of that region will know conflict between India and other groups has always been around - this one in particular seemed to be intent on destablizing the country.
    Yes they have ever since dar al-Islam invaded and perpetrated the largest genocide in history on the indian subcontinent.

    Seeing this attack seemed to be directed at British and Americans, where does it state Islam had influenced this?
    Al Qaeda is apparentley behind this and we all know Islam has barely anything to do with why they hate US or why they would want to attack it.
    We all know that huh? I suppose that's why OBL said that he "was ordered to fight all the people until they say there is no god but allah and mohammed is his prophet."

    How about deal with the impossible. Islam is not the deciding factor in this attack but as usual certain posters seem more intent on attacking Islam as a whole rather than the extremists who are behind this.
    Political Islam IE Islamism is the ONLY factor in this attack without that bankrupt exteremist ideology brainwashing millions of people around the word this attack would not have occurred.

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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Im a Muslim yes and i don't see where anyone would get the impression Muslims as a whole would agree with any form of attack on civilians.
    I think its disgusting what has occured and i hope UK Government aids India in catching these criminals and bringing them to justice.

    Will we be seeing the Ummah summon even half of the anger that they did over cartoons? Doubtful, I am more inclined to believe we'll be seeing celebrations as we did after 911.

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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    *cough*
    Who?

    Must not be very important if i don't know them
    I prefer Islamic speakers speaking about Islam tyvm.
    Will you accept testimony from persons raised Islamic who then learned better ? That is who the man was mentioning.

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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    Will you accept testimony from persons raised Islamic who then learned better ? That is who the man was mentioning.

    Wafa Sultan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wafa Sultan
    "I have decided to fight Islam; please pay attention to my statement; to fight Islam, not the political Islam, not the militant Islam, not the radical Islam, not the Wahhabi Islam, but Islam itself...Islam has never been misunderstood, Islam is the problem....(Muslims) have to realize that they have only two choices: to change or to be crushed."
    Clearly her renouncing of Islam has made her peaceful and accepting of others....

    Nonie Darwish-

    So...she was raised in egypt until 8, then put in Catholic school in America. Clearly a good example of an ex-Muslim. Not.

    The fact is most "ex-Muslims" who blame Islam are in fact westerners who were in an Islamic country when they were younger or grew up Muslim in a western country. They jumped on the media terror wagon after 9/11 with books and speeches.
    Last edited by shiznit770; 11-28-08 at 03:14 PM.

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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Again, I hate to interrupt personal diatribes and childish spats about "Islam is bad...Islam is good" for news about, you know, the actual topic, but in case anyone is interested and hasn't thrown up their hands and moved on, the death toll is now up to 160. The hostages at the Jewish center have all been killed, including two children. At least one terrorist is still holed up in the Taj hotel; 30 people are dead at the Oberjoi hotel but the remaining live hostages have been rescued. Several Indian police officers have been killed, including the chief of their anti-terrorist unit. It's been a horrible tragedy for the people of Mumbai.

    India is now outright stating that the terrorists came from Pakistan; Pakistan is flat denying it (how they can deny it, I don't know, since the guys spoke Pakistani... but apparently the Pakistani government is sticking with the "if we don't admit it, it doesn't exist" school of thought.)

    The ramifications of this tragedy could be huge. I feel terrible for the people of India. This really is their "9-11".

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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Im ready for certain hadiths to be removed entirely or for verses that imply christians and jews are legitimate targets to be re interpretated and/or denounced but not every Muslim is
    And such a move would be treating the symptoms as temporary relief from treating the core problem. That is, "reinterpreting" could just as easily be used for the opposite goals.

    Moreover, who has the authority to re-interpret? I don't recall pluralism being a valid excuse to "reinterpret". How would reinterpretation of the divine be justified ?
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    What you say is true. But what is there to debate. This terrorist attack is horrible. How many ways can you say it?
    We must be spending time and effort to stop this and until then, prevent this - which, sadly, may not be possible in India , its hard enough to do in our nation.

    Maybe all of the Islamic nations should be taken over by the UN and all of their school systems be removed from Islam and the children taught to be tolerant and to think for themselves..
    This is an example... when I say the "moderate or peaceful" Muslims have not done nearly enough to stop terrorism..
    The "terrorists data base" must be national and international...now it is neither. Even our own states do not cooperate...
    This pig-headedness plays into the hands of the terrorist criminals..

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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    And such a move would be treating the symptoms as temporary relief from treating the core problem. That is, "reinterpreting" could just as easily be used for the opposite goals.

    Moreover, who has the authority to re-interpret? I don't recall pluralism being a valid excuse to "reinterpret". How would reinterpretation of the divine be justified ?
    A reinterpretation is not necessary, a vast majority live peacefully and non-violent lives. What needs to be addressed are the conditions which bread the need for reinterpretation. The monopolies of minority leadership which are being propped up by western economic interest are the underlying cause.

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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by shiznit770 View Post
    A reinterpretation is not necessary, a vast majority live peacefully and non-violent lives. What needs to be addressed are the conditions which bread the need for reinterpretation.
    The Islamists don't reinterpret anything, the Islamists are only interpreting Islam the way it has been interpreted for the last 15 hundred years ever since Mohammed, IE it is the duty of Muslims to expand dar al-Islam through offensive Jihad and to kill, convert, or subjugate as Dhimmi half slaves every non-Muslim on the planet. THAT'S ISLAM, the history of the Islamic world since Mohammed proves it as does its present, while there maybe moderate Muslims there is no moderate Islam and there never was, genuine Muslim reformers have to completely ignore cerain parts of the Koran and Hadiths all together. And I love how today the category of "moderate" is allowed for Muslims who may support sharia and what not, but they just don't blow **** up to obtain it, that's hardly makes them a moderate in my book.

    The monopolies of minority leadership which are being propped up by western economic interest are the underlying cause.
    Oh please, when they allow for free and fair elections in that region the Islamists get elected.

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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    We must be spending time and effort to stop this and until then, prevent this - which, sadly, may not be possible in India , its hard enough to do in our nation.

    Maybe all of the Islamic nations should be taken over by the UN and all of their school systems be removed from Islam and the children taught to be tolerant and to think for themselves..
    Oh hell no! One of my biggest fears over this attack is that it'll be used to justify further military attacks on the region, and since I'm typing this while the news talks about a teenaged Marine UK dying in Helmand Province, you can probably understand why I'm arguing this point with you.

    So, how exactly do you see removing "Islam" from any school system as being a way to fight terror, given that these conflicts are most often caused by political, ethnic and territorial factors cloaked in a misunderstanding of what Islam is about? I'm not in favour of denominational schooling, but your suggestion would both infuriate people and not do any good at all. As Laila says, it's the perversion of the text that's the problem. Fight that, and while they'll probably just switch to using something else to justify their attacks, at least they can't hide behind Islam anymore.

    And I take issue with your assumption teaching children Islam is counter-productive to encouraging tolerance. Should we shut down parochial schools in the West while we're at it?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm
    This is an example... when I say the "moderate or peaceful" Muslims have not done nearly enough to stop terrorism..
    Okay then, what is it you expect Muslims to do, and what haven't they done, about this? What is a UK Muslim like Laila supposed to do about perversion of Islam in nation thousands of miles away from her home, aside from debunking harmful rhetoric, as she's already doing?

    It really frustrates me sometimes, the inability/refusal so many have (not necessarily yourself in particular) about seeing the bigger picture. Islam is not causing these incidents. Political tension, feelings of victimisation and anger at the West, quarrels over representation, power and land are causing these conflicts. Perverting Islam however, in a religious nation, is an effective way of bringing people over to your side. You may not be willing to die for land, for more cash, but for your God? A lot more people are going to sign up for the last option.

    Target those who encourage violence in Islam's name. Encourage foreign aid programs for social welfare, health and literacy, which in addition to being a great thing to do morally, will also stop so much of the Middle East hating the West.

    Cast a careful eye over your foreign policy over the last few decades and try and figure out how things got this bad.

    Aim for foreign policy that helps the rest of the world, and for the love of God, stop invading countries unless doing so is a mortal necessity, because their fellow citizens dying infront of them is going to leave a lot of people furious, saddened and ripe for recruitment to fight those they blame for those deaths.

    Learn real quantifiable lessons to help your nation fight terror.

    /rant

    But nah, "ISLAMMZ IS FUH TERRORISTZZ!" is just so much easier.

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm
    The "terrorists data base" must be national and international...now it is neither. Even our own states do not cooperate...
    This pig-headedness plays into the hands of the terrorist criminals..
    Are there problems with information shring between nations at the moment? Because at least regarding the situation in Mumbai, it appears the British police already have a system set up to conduct their investigations and funnel the information uncovered to the Indian government.
    "I'll govern for all the ambitions of Scotland, and for all of the people who imagine that we can live in a better land. This party, the Scottish party, your party, carries your hope, and we shall carry it carefully, and make the nation proud."
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