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Thread: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

  1. #41
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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I agree and i do hope more Muslims are vocal about their disgust with these sorts of actions but it is a minority who perform these actions and it is almost always linked with politics in some form but just use religion as a cover up for it.

    Alot of those posters who tend to be anti islamic ignore the surahs or passages within the Qu'ran that are more than tolerant. More surahs speak about negotiation tolerance and peace compared to a minority that [linked with war] speak about violence.

    Lets face it, if Islam disappeared off the face of the earth tomorrow. Half the problems would still exist seeing they all have a basis on politics and they'd find something else to use to justify the actions.
    The point that I always make around this issue...and any issue similar is this. Islam did not cause these actions to occur. It is the people, their interpretation of Islam and their own mindset that caused these things to occur. Without Islam, they would have used something else to justify their actions. We see this all throughout history with, pretty much, every religion, ideology, nationality, etc... It's people's perceptions and interpretations that are the problem, not the conceptual belief system. Those that blame Islam are about as bad as those who pervert Islam.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
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  2. #42
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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by Shewter View Post
    Either way, simply saying "I am this and you are wrong" will have less of an impact imo.

    Providing the information disproving what they are saying... that is what gets 'er done. Not necessarily to the ignorant dolts who think everyone with xxxx tag is the same. But at the very least, to someone else looking in.
    I'm not disagreeing with you, and I think that, though brief, the exposure of the usage of extremists to define an entire group has been shown, here...by you also in the response towards Perry Logan. And, trust me, others will see this. Most will recognize the extremism and overgeneralization, quickly.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #43
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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    The point that I always make around this issue...and any issue similar is this. Islam did not cause these actions to occur. It is the people, their interpretation of Islam and their own mindset that caused these things to occur. Without Islam, they would have used something else to justify their actions. We see this all throughout history with, pretty much, every religion, ideology, nationality, etc... It's people's perceptions and interpretations that are the problem, not the conceptual belief system. Those that blame Islam are about as bad as those who pervert Islam.
    Exactly, that is what i try and point out but is usually ignored.

    Interpretations of texts is what is the problem and yes, i do believe Islam needs to be reformed to not only prevent extremists exploiting certain verses but also to bring it more into the modern world. Ishallah i hope my Imams will clarify the Qu'ran's position on suicide bombings and killing innocent people lowering the chances of Muslims believing that interpretation of the Qu'ran.
    I do want certain verses in my holy book denounced world wide but not removed and i would rather we start seeing a united condemntation by all Muslim countries of actions done in Islams name.

    Another major issue is that unsurprisingly alot of Muslims are illiterate and therefore rely heavily on the Imam or Sheikh's for the Qu'ran teachings and if the Imam is corrupt it will eventually trickle down to those learning from them.

    I wouldn't say no to harsher punishments of those who do act in Islam's name wrongly.


  4. #44
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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I'm not disagreeing with you, and I think that, though brief, the exposure of the usage of extremists to define an entire group has been shown, here...by you also in the response towards Perry Logan. And, trust me, others will see this. Most will recognize the extremism and overgeneralization, quickly.
    Most is a large number to live up to don't ya think?

    But it goes beyond the extremist actions in just THIS thread. I understand laila's frustration at the OP for posting every Islamic related story he can dig up... but it needs to be squashed effectively so as to not convert more people to the "douchebaggery" that is blind ignorance.

    In another thread he posted a couple quotes from the Qu'ran that could possibly be misleading. Things like THAT amplify the story being presented here. And people who are/were on the fence tend to be swayed by that kind of stuff. Not by one person saying "You're wrong" but possibly by one person saying "This is why they do not qualify as Muslim" etc.

  5. #45
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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by Shewter View Post
    Not by one person saying "You're wrong" but possibly by one person saying "This is why they do not qualify as Muslim" etc.
    So you want me to prove him wrong by posting Qu'ran verses contradicting his view on Islam and explaining to him why they are not even Muslim let alone this has anything to do with Islam?


  6. #46
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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I agree and i do hope more Muslims are vocal about their disgust with these sorts of actions but it is a minority who perform these actions and it is almost always linked with politics in some form but just use religion as a cover up for it.

    Alot of those posters who tend to be anti islamic ignore the surahs or passages within the Qu'ran that are more than tolerant. More surahs speak about negotiation tolerance and peace compared to a minority that [linked with war] speak about violence.

    Lets face it, if Islam disappeared off the face of the earth tomorrow. Half the problems would still exist seeing they all have a basis on politics and they'd find something else to use to justify the actions.

    Some people can not help but to focus on the bad. There is some pretty nasty stuff in the Bible as well.

  7. #47
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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Exactly, that is what i try and point out but is usually ignored.

    Interpretations of texts is what is the problem and yes, i do believe Islam needs to be reformed to not only prevent extremists exploiting certain verses but also to bring it more into the modern world. Ishallah i hope my Imams will clarify the Qu'ran's position on suicide bombings and killing innocent people lowering the chances of Muslims believing that interpretation of the Qu'ran.
    I do want
    certain verses in my holy book denounced world wide but not removed and i would rather we start seeing a united condemntation by all Muslim countries of actions done in Islams name.

    Another major issue is that unsurprisingly alot of Muslims are illiterate and therefore rely heavily on the Imam or Sheikh's for the Qu'ran teachings and if the Imam is corrupt it will eventually trickle down to those learning from them.

    I wouldn't say no to harsher punishments of those who do act in Islam's name wrongly.
    Thank you, this kind of information is what I was digging for.

  8. #48
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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Some people can not help but to focus on the bad. There is some pretty nasty stuff in the Bible as well.
    I know but i never use another religion as an arguement. I know there are questionable verses in the Bible but i would never dare to presume that the majority of Christians follow it


  9. #49
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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I know but i never use another religion as an arguement. I know there are questionable verses in the Bible but i would never dare to presume that the majority of Christians follow it
    Don't be so quick to avoid that one...

    Don't just read the bible, look throughout history. People have claimed "God" for their reasoning in a LOT of heinous crimes.

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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I know but i never use another religion as an arguement. I know there are questionable verses in the Bible but i would never dare to presume that the majority of Christians follow it
    Good to met ya

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