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Thread: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

  1. #31
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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Perhaps im reading the wrong links or newspapers but judging by BBC, Guardian, Independent and the Times. Where in that link he posted does it say Islam had a role to play in this shooting? This is politics; anyone with a slight understanding of that region will know conflict between India and other groups has always been around - this one in particular seemed to be intent on destablizing the country.

    Seeing this attack seemed to be directed at British and Americans, where does it state Islam had influenced this?
    Al Qaeda is apparentley behind this and we all know Islam has barely anything to do with why they hate US or why they would want to attack it.


    How about deal with the impossible. Islam is not the deciding factor in this attack but as usual certain posters seem more intent on attacking Islam as a whole rather than the extremists who are behind this.
    Last edited by Laila; 11-27-08 at 08:26 AM.


  2. #32
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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by Shewter View Post
    Regardless of his intent. He is still posting breaking news, and I was under the impression that we are to debate the topic rather than the poster?
    If someone misrepresents the information, by painting the picture that an act like this should be attributed to all of Islam, it is fair game to confront that poster on their information. Overgeneralized information is a logical fallacy in debate. Confronting it is appropriate and in the context of the news story.

    And sure, extremists paint an entire group red. But I would still like to see what's going on and possibly have a go at the determining factors.
    That's fine...as would I. But in the appropriate context. Laila is Islamic, I believe. The fact that she does not agree with what extremist Islamics do shows that SgtRock's assertion is erroneous and proven incorrect. The determining factors are the desire for the extremists to have some of their members released, and to adhere to their skewed version of Islam. Perhaps that's what we should be discussing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #33
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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by Shewter View Post
    It would be easier to do so if these groups did not claim Islam. They do, so this gives people like him ammunition. Try debunking their relation to the religion instead of fighting with him about his own intentions, you will see a much better result.
    I disagree. Both must be done. To eliminate this kind of stereotyping, one must stop it from both ends.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #34
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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    ILaila is Islamic, I believe. The fact that she does not agree with what extremist Islamics do shows that SgtRock's assertion is erroneous and proven incorrect.
    Im a Muslim yes and i don't see where anyone would get the impression Muslims as a whole would agree with any form of attack on civilians.
    I think its disgusting what has occured and i hope UK Government aids India in catching these criminals and bringing them to justice.


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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    If someone misrepresents the information, by painting the picture that an act like this should be attributed to all of Islam, it is fair game to confront that poster on their information. Overgeneralized information is a logical fallacy in debate. Confronting it is appropriate and in the context of the news story.
    I see. Thank you for the clarification.



    That's fine...as would I. But in the appropriate context. Laila is Islamic, I believe. The fact that she does not agree with what extremist Islamics do shows that SgtRock's assertion is erroneous and proven incorrect. The determining factors are the desire for the extremists to have some of their members released, and to adhere to their skewed version of Islam. Perhaps that's what we should be discussing.
    Perhaps indeed. I somehow don't see this topic going too far as most people are either ignorant to islam as far as it's philosophy goes, or already somewhat biased as what we have seen all too often are "extremists" claiming islam as their guidance for the terrible things they are doing. See the above suggestion to Laila.

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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I disagree. Both must be done. To eliminate this kind of stereotyping, one must stop it from both ends.
    Telling someone they're wrong rarely helps your cause.

    SHOWING someone they are wrong however can have quite a potent effect. If he/she were to remove the "terrorists" from the religion by way of knowledge, her arguement could not be denied and if people like the OP continued to argue that the religion itself is to blame, well... I'm sure you know how well that would go.

    Who knows, you may even change the OP's mind with a little edumacation

  7. #37
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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Im a Muslim yes and i don't see where anyone would get the impression Muslims as a whole would agree with any form of attack on civilians.
    I think its disgusting what has occured and i hope UK Government aids India in catching these criminals and bringing them to justice.
    I believe that THIS post is a better descriptor of the religion of peace than anything that some of our anti-Islamic posters could possibly attribute Islam to...especially since it was spoke by an Islamic, something that none of them are.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #38
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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I believe that THIS post is a better descriptor of the religion of peace than anything that some of our anti-Islamic posters could possibly attribute Islam to...especially since it was spoke by an Islamic, something that none of them are.
    I agree and i do hope more Muslims are vocal about their disgust with these sorts of actions but it is a minority who perform these actions and it is almost always linked with politics in some form but just use religion as a cover up for it.

    Alot of those posters who tend to be anti islamic ignore the surahs or passages within the Qu'ran that are more than tolerant. More surahs speak about negotiation tolerance and peace compared to a minority that [linked with war] speak about violence.

    Lets face it, if Islam disappeared off the face of the earth tomorrow. Half the problems would still exist seeing they all have a basis on politics and they'd find something else to use to justify the actions.


  9. #39
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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by Shewter View Post
    Telling someone they're wrong rarely helps your cause.

    SHOWING someone they are wrong however can have quite a potent effect. If he/she were to remove the "terrorists" from the religion by way of knowledge, her arguement could not be denied and if people like the OP continued to argue that the religion itself is to blame, well... I'm sure you know how well that would go.

    Who knows, you may even change the OP's mind with a little edumacation
    Been there, done that, more times than I can count, shown they were wrong in more ways than you would imagine, my friend. Some around here refuse to listen to things they do not want to hear, no matter how wrong they are. Sometimes, one must be a bit forceful.

    Also, understanding the closed-mindedness of some people's positions on things like this, changing someone's mind is not the objective. It won't happen. Shredding their position is.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  10. #40
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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Been there, done that, more times than I can count, shown they were wrong in more ways than you would imagine, my friend. Some around here refuse to listen to things they do not want to hear, no matter how wrong they are. Sometimes, one must be a bit forceful.

    Also, understanding the closed-mindedness of some people's positions on things like this, changing someone's mind is not the objective. It won't happen. Shredding their position is.
    Either way, simply saying "I am this and you are wrong" will have less of an impact imo.

    Providing the information disproving what they are saying... that is what gets 'er done. Not necessarily to the ignorant dolts who think everyone with xxxx tag is the same. But at the very least, to someone else looking in.

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