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Thread: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

  1. #181
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    Laila's Avatar
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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by cherokee View Post
    First you recognize they exists like you have just done...
    Many Muslims sites wont even do that.

    A good start would be to make more noise then they do.
    Yeah right, make more noise?

    Mainstream media hates Moderate Muslims.
    We condemn almost all forms of attacks but do FOX, CNN, BBC, SKY show it? Hell no.

    Face it. Crazy Muslims shouting about killing Americans or Jews are better for their rating than Muslims preaching peace.


  2. #182
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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I was disgusted at the cartoons.
    That's a fair reaction. But did you find the original 12 that revolting or only the additional three that the clerics shopping this story around the Middle East created?

    B
    ut i felt physically ill when the cartoons was supressed by the Media.
    The same rights that allow me to sit here and speak my mind should equally protect those bashing any religion they please.
    Too bad many Muslims disagree with you as we saw when they took to the streets to burn embassies, riot, and murder those they merely perceived to be westerners.

    People like Theo Van Gogh would agree with you but he was stabbed to death by some Muslim for daring to make a provocative film about Islam. So, too, would Ayaab Hirsi Ali agree with you, and she is now under permanent police protection since radical Islamist terrorists have threatened to kill her too.

    This whole issue started when this Danish learned that illustrators were refusing to provide illustrations for a book for fear of being targetted with violence. So they printed these cartoons. Then, after these 12 and the additional three were shopped around the Middle East specifically to incite such reactions, did other publications refuse to print them. This was not suppression. It was a rational and logical response to the violence these publishers were witnessing on the part of Muslims.

    These publishers refused to print this material because they rightly feared for the safety of their personnel.

    Thats freedom and some European Muslims do need to realise they cannot have it both ways. They cannot benefit from those freedoms when it suits them without respecting those rights even if its something they do not like being said
    But they do take it both ways. They use the broad freedoms they have to foment such violent reactions to what they perceive as offensive.

  3. #183
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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Yeah right, make more noise?

    Mainstream media hates Moderate Muslims.
    We condemn almost all forms of attacks but do FOX, CNN, BBC, SKY show it? Hell no.

    Face it. Crazy Muslims shouting about killing Americans or Jews are better for their rating than Muslims preaching peace.

    I'm sympathetic to this media bias argument. If not only because when the mainstream media was a "moderate" reaction, they pursue comments from groups like CAIR or people like Juan Cole at Michigan who act as apologists for Islamic violence. For example, CAIR was recently successful is badgering the FBI into removing "honor killing" when referencing a recent Taxes murder case.

  4. #184
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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Not those who carried out said policy?

    Then how are your terrorist buddies "justified" in killing those who killed their cohorts?

    They aint killing the policy makers.
    So they are allowed to do nothing since they possess neither the means nor intuition to realize it is the policy makers making the decisions?
    Quote Originally Posted by JMak
    Oh? So these terror attacks are not motivated by religion? The flavor of the day grievances cited by these terrorists don't have any religious component to them whatsoever? So when OBL declared that the presence of American troops in the holy land of Saudi Arabia justified his terror attacks against the US, that was what? Bin Laden giving us a head fake? Bin Laden lying? Bin Laden never said such things?
    I am not claiming religion plays no role in terrorism, just that it is not accurate to put it as the cause and underlying problem. Islam has been hijacked for political ends and the sooner they are dealt with the better off everyone will be.

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak
    Hmmm, so you believe that burning embassies, taking hostages, murdering three people suspected of being Christians and/or Danes, shooting at Danish soldiers helping children in Iraq, marching through London with banners threatening further bomb attacks on the city, and attacking and beating people whom they suspected of some vague connection with, well, with Europe or Christianity to be a justified response to cartoons?
    When you consider that the sentiments portrayed in the cartoon and newspaper in general are the exact reason for support of troops in Iraq, then the killings can be understood, not condoned or justified. Using racism and stereotyping a religion to support a war should be protested imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak
    I don't know whether the cartoons were published in Egypt prior to being published in the Danish publication. What I do recall, though, and what I think is more important, is that some of the cartoons presented to the Arab street were not published in the Danish publication. They were created by the very clerics brandishing the actual cartoons throughout the Middle East in order to stir up resentment and anger.

    I'll try to find a link, but while the Danish publication publisged 12 cartoons, the set of cartoons distributed by that islamic group in Denmark included 15 cartoons.
    I would hardly consider The Brussels Journal a reliable news source and I disagree, I think the context of the Egyptian newspaper was extremely important in order to understand why there was no protest of it. I do recognize that the cartoon was utilized by some Islamic leaders to gain political support. A political reaction should not be used to criticize an entire religion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah
    First off, I am only mildly conservative in regards to fiscal responsibility so don't even try to label me as a blanket conservative. Secondly, in Islam everything is considered to be under the purview of Allah. Thus there is no excuse to protest en-mass one form of Islamic disrespect (offensive Mohammad cartoons) and not protest en-mass a much more grievous form of Islamic disrespect (murdering hundreds of innocents in the name of Islam). Sorry, but Islam can't (either ideologically or ethically) have it both ways without being obviously and terribly inconsistent.
    I did not mean to label you as a conservative, I was addressing your conservative lean on the specific issue in question. Generalizing their religion accomplishes little, Christianity is divided on countless issues, are they too inconsistent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah
    You miss the overarching point. Any willful attacks on innocents by Muslims - and accomplished in the name of Islam - should be loudly and publicy castigated en-mass by the Muslim community regardless of whether the catalyst is either politically or religiously inspired.
    And you are missing the overarching point that attacks on innocent Muslims are not loudly and publicly criticized. People are selfish, they generally only protest publicly on issues that effect them directly. They protest US collateral damage through military operations just as the US gets outraged over 9/11 and Israelis over mortar shelling. Your expectation is unrealistic and hypocritical.

  5. #185
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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    That's a fair reaction. But did you find the original 12 that revolting or only the additional three that the clerics shopping this story around the Middle East created?
    Any image defacing my Prophet is sick regardless if it was drawn by a European or a Cleric.

    Too bad many Muslims disagree with you as we saw when they took to the streets to burn embassies, riot, and murder those they merely perceived to be westerners.
    I know. I had my head in my hands watching that on the news. It was blown way out of proportion.
    Oh it was so embarassing

    People like Theo Van Gogh would agree with you but he was stabbed to death by some Muslim for daring to make a provocative film about Islam.
    Yes i know and i hope the murderer got punished by the law. I hope he never sees light again.

    So, too, would Ayaab Hirsi Ali agree with you, and she is now under permanent police protection since radical Islamist terrorists have threatened to kill her too.
    Ah well, i dislike Ayaab. I think she is just after money and uses bashing Islam as a way to get it.
    Im against threatening anyone or breaking the law in any form and i pity her. I just don't like her.

    This was not suppression. It was a rational and logical response to the violence these publishers were witnessing on the part of Muslims.

    These publishers refused to print this material because they rightly feared for the safety of their personnel.
    I disagree.
    Democracy and freedom should be upheld in all cases.
    It does not make it better for democracy when you suppress cartoons, Newspapers/media refused to pick up on it for fear of offending Muslims!
    When you start heeding to the minority of Muslims crying, then you legitimize and make them stronger

    I would have told them Muslims to **** off if they do not like Democracy. We are not preventing them leaving and going to Saudi Arabia where anyone insulting would face death.

    But they do take it both ways. They use the broad freedoms they have to foment such violent reactions to what they perceive as offensive.
    Yes they do.
    And the Government should ensure they do not take the piss.


    Novel pulled from bookshops after Muslim protest | Books | guardian.co.uk

    The Serbian publisher of Sherry Jones's controversial novel about the child bride of Muhammad has withdrawn the book following protests from an Islamic pressure group.
    I hate what she is writing about but i would defend her right to write about it. I just will not read her filth
    Last edited by Laila; 12-01-08 at 05:53 PM.


  6. #186
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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by shiznit770 View Post
    I am not claiming religion plays no role in terrorism, just that it is not accurate to put it as the cause and underlying problem. Islam has been hijacked for political ends and the sooner they are dealt with the better off everyone will be.
    If religion is not at the heart of Islamic jihad then wtf is?

    When you consider that the sentiments portrayed in the cartoon and newspaper in general are the exact reason for support of troops in Iraq, then the killings can be understood, not condoned or justified. Using racism and stereotyping a religion to support a war should be protested imo.
    Understood? LOL!

    You haven't seen the cartoons, have you?

    BTW - the war was never premised on racism or stereotyping.

    I would hardly consider The Brussels Journal a reliable news source and I disagree, I think the context of the Egyptian newspaper was extremely important in order to understand why there was no protest of it. I do recognize that the cartoon was utilized by some Islamic leaders to gain political support. A political reaction should not be used to criticize an entire religion.
    Huh? Are you for real?

    You wouldn't know how to assess a publication as reliable let alone dismiss the BJ as unreliable without any explanation.

    I was merely commenting that the cartoons by themselves didn't stir much controversy until after some clerics created even more offensive cartoons and then shopped them around the Middle East seeking to incite violence. That's what the citations provided. If you disagree, then feel free to submit a counter citation that demnstrates the info provided is false or at least provides an unreasonable interpretation of the issue.

    Simple claiming the BJ is unreliable is, well, unreliable.

    You're a joke.

  7. #187
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    Laila's Avatar
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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    I'm sympathetic to this media bias argument. If not only because when the mainstream media was a "moderate" reaction, they pursue comments from groups like CAIR or people like Juan Cole at Michigan who act as apologists for Islamic violence. For example, CAIR was recently successful is badgering the FBI into removing "honor killing" when referencing a recent Taxes murder case.
    Oh jeez
    I never thought i'd see US accepting BS like that.

    It was a honor killing. What else would we call it?


  8. #188
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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Any image defacing my Prophet is sick regardless if it was drawn by a European or a Cleric.
    Ok.

    I know. I had my head in my hands watching that on the news. It was blown way out of proportion.
    Oh it was so embarassing
    But this reaction was not atypical. This reax was typical and representative of how Muslims respond when they feel offended.

    I compare that to the total lack of response anymore by Christians when our government subsidizes such art as the Piss Christ.

    Yes i know and i hope the murderer got punished by the law. I hope he never sees light again.
    But you see how this incident, along with Hirsi having to be under constant protection, and the Arab streets riots following the publication of these cartoons contributes to the fear that publishers had in publishing these cartoons. They weren't suppressing, they were afraid.

    Ah well, i dislike Ayaab. I think she is just after money and uses bashing Islam as a way to get it.
    Im against threatening anyone or breaking the law in any form and i pity her. I just don't like her.
    She's just after money? Puhlease. Don't attribute bogus motivations to her because you simply disagree with her.

    I disagree.
    Democracy and freedom should be upheld in all cases.
    It does not make it better for democracy when you suppress cartoons, Newspapers/media refused to pick up on it for fear of offending Muslims!
    When you start heeding to the minority of Muslims crying, then you legitimize and make them stronger
    No, the didn't print them for fear of the violent retribution they felt they would be exposed to.

    But I agree with the appeasement argument. The problem is publishers aren't going to endanger their people simply to make a point about principle. We saw with this episode.

    I would have told them Muslims to **** off if they do not like Democracy. We are not preventing them leaving and going to Saudi Arabia where anyone insulting would face death.
    Good luck with that. Muslims have successfully instilled fear in people whether through terror attacks, rioting in the streets (in the Middle east) or in France, for example, etc. It's easy to say that. But when you have a screaming cleric in your face with real instances of murder in the recent past, well, good luck.

    I hate what she is writing about but i would defend her write it. I just will not read her filth.
    Why do you consider it filth?

  9. #189
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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Oh jeez
    I never thought i'd see US accepting BS like that.

    It was a honor killing. What else would we call it?
    I don't accept it. I just take note of these organizations because they are often relied on by the mainstream media to represent moderate Islamic voices.

  10. #190
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    Re: At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    But you see how this incident, along with Hirsi having to be under constant protection, and the Arab streets riots following the publication of these cartoons contributes to the fear that publishers had in publishing these cartoons. They weren't suppressing, they were afraid.
    Inside UK, media outlets refused to publish them and yet there was still protests. Some people are never pleased.

    She's just after money? Puhlease. Don't attribute bogus motivations to her because you simply disagree with her.
    I dislike her as a person.
    I agree with some of her views, i just still think she is just crying for attention and money.

    But I agree with the appeasement argument. The problem is publishers aren't going to endanger their people simply to make a point about principle. We saw with this episode.
    True, doesn't make me feel any better but appeasement of any type is a form of defeat.

    Good luck with that. Muslims have successfully instilled fear in people whether through terror attacks, rioting in the streets (in the Middle east) or in France, for example, etc. It's easy to say that. But when you have a screaming cleric in your face with real instances of murder in the recent past, well, good luck.
    LOL
    I have said it. Many times in my Mosque, my Imam thinks im a Jew and should be cleansed

    Why do you consider it filth?
    Its talking about my Prophet and it is not nice allegations being levelled :/
    I don't need to read it ever but i wouldn't prevent anyone else reading it.

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    I don't accept it. I just take note of these organizations because they are often relied on by the mainstream media to represent moderate Islamic voices.
    No organization speaks for Moderate Muslims
    They are all unelected, self appointed self serving men especially Muslim Council of Britain.
    Last edited by Laila; 12-01-08 at 06:08 PM.


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