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Thread: Ban on gay marriage in CA still unclear

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    Re: Ban on gay marriage in CA still unclear

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Like I said, the same arguments have been raised about Blacks. Gay Discrimination is simply the racism of this century....and just like Blacks, Women and other minorities, America will eventually grow up and recognize that this discrimination is wrong as well. Its just a matter of time.
    The problem I have with all of this is that it is a manufactured discrimination. Gays are not discriminated against by the state. It's a shame as it makes people feel suppressed when they shouldn't feel that way.
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    Re: Ban on gay marriage in CA still unclear

    Quote Originally Posted by MC.no.spin View Post
    The problem I have with all of this is that it is a manufactured discrimination. Gays are not discriminated against by the state. It's a shame as it makes people feel suppressed when they shouldn't feel that way.
    Funny....people said the same thing about Blacks during the 60's.
    "Hell....we provide drinking fountains for them....why do they want to drink out of ours. Its not discrimination as long as we allow them to sit in the balcony. Its a shame as it makes people feel suppressed when they shouldn't feel that way."
    Last edited by disneydude; 11-06-08 at 11:36 PM.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Ban on gay marriage in CA still unclear

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Funny....people said the same thing about Blacks during the 60's.
    "Hell....we provide drinking fountains for them....why do they want to drink out of ours. Its not discrimination as long as we allow them to sit in the balcony. Its a shame as it makes people feel suppressed when they shouldn't feel that way."
    Those rights being denied to blacks were negative rights.

    Positive rights lack existence until they are created by contract.

    Apples and oranges.
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    Re: Ban on gay marriage in CA still unclear

    Quote Originally Posted by MC.no.spin View Post
    Those rights being denied to blacks were negative rights.

    Positive rights lack existence until they are created by contract.

    Apples and oranges.
    Circular reasoning. You can put whatever label you want on them. People can say the same thing about black rights in the civil rights movement. The rights lacked existence.....hence.....positive rights....apples and oranges.

    I'm sure the racists of the past didn't consider themselves bigots either. Afterall...they were in the right. Blacks were an inferior race and not entitled to the same rights that the rest of society was. They thought...and many probably still do....that they are in the right mindset.
    Discrimination is justifiable because those people are different than us. Apples and oranges.
    Last edited by disneydude; 11-06-08 at 11:53 PM.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  5. #295
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    Re: Ban on gay marriage in CA still unclear

    Quote Originally Posted by conquer View Post
    Religion has been part of the whole societies of the world since ancient times. The voice of the gods of the cultures still having influence in the people.

    The god of the bible called them "dogs", and such nomination to homosexuals is observed in both covenants (or testaments). It appears that in the Judeo-Christian religion, homosexuals -regardless of how "nice" they are- won't be part of the new era promissed in the bible for humanity and planet earth.

    I was just using the same analogy to show what the bible says about homosexuals, and for this Judeo-Christian god, homosexuality is an abomination.
    What some mythological ancient text says is irrelevant to our secular society.

    About the consenting thing, can a 60 years old woman get married with her 40 years old son? Look, they are "consenting" to get marry, is the law to allow this union?
    It should, but currently no it doesn't.

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    Re: Ban on gay marriage in CA still unclear

    I don't know about all this "positive" and "negative" terminology, it really depends on which side you are coming from. Clearly, the pro-gay marriage movement thinks discrimination is happening. The fact that we wouldn't have considered it discrimination in the past isn't really relevant to an emerging issue. In the past, homosexuals lacked the social and political forum to really bring this issue to the limelight.

    I personally don't understand the drama, really. And that's what it is, a bunch of moralistic drama. In Canada, gay marriage was legalized at the Federal level within a month of it becoming an emergent issue. Since then nothing has happened and people have moved on with their lives. What two other men, two other women, or a man and a woman do together is truly irrelevant to my existence. And yes, we had the right wing side trying to stop our government from doing it.

    If you really deconstruct this issue, it doesn't matter all that much. I've since met married male couples and married female couples. At first you're like... wow, I'm not used to this. Then when you walk away you forget their names, or what their jobs are, or any of the other "important" details. That's all it comes back to, for me anyway... is that it doesn't really matter. Society has not unravelled.

    All that aside, gays tend to move to more liberal centers anyway. After they come out, few stay in conservative areas, so I don't know why conservatives are so afraid of suddenly seeing gay married couples everywhere. It's not going to happen.

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    Re: Ban on gay marriage in CA still unclear

    Quote Originally Posted by MC.no.spin View Post
    Civil unions give them the rights marriage affords.

    Get on with your lives.
    I think that would mostly be well and good if the State didn't issue the Marriage License. But it does, so it's no longer a religion thing; it's a legal contract thing. And in that circumstance, a the church has no place dictating the terms of that contract.
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    Re: Ban on gay marriage in CA still unclear

    Quote Originally Posted by MC.no.spin View Post
    This is all such an overblown problem. It's way out of proportion to the real situation.

    If two men or women in CA (or many other states) want to be in a committed relationship, with all the rights of marriage, they CAN. They can even walk around calling themselves married, say they have a husband or wife, etc.

    Who cares what it is called in legal terms? They have all the rights of marriage. Call it "Garriage." Call it whatever you like.

    But it's just a stupid game of trying to be RIGHT about something inferred as WRONG by a lot of other people.

    I feel sorry for all the emotionally distraught liberals and gays out there who are sweating over this POINTLESS issue. It has been a MANUFACTURED upset. People have riled you up for no good reason. LET IT BE.

    It's not an issue for the government to get involved with.
    Civil unions give them the rights marriage affords.

    Get on with your lives.
    Separate but equal is not equality.

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    Re: Ban on gay marriage in CA still unclear

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    LOL Really?
    Did you bother to read what you posted or just google, copy, paste with the appropriate key words?

    you initially used "similarly situated" to indicate both sides. That Same sex couples and opposite sex couples are "similarly situated".
    The definition you posted defines the phrase as a group of Plaintiffs (one side of the argument) being "similarly situated" not both sides.

    Try Again.
    It really annoys me when someone blatantly misinterprets an amendment, legal definition, or law to fit their own warped conclusions. The Plaintiffs, for our purposes, are homosexuals who are claiming to be "similarly situated;" that is, the same as another group being afforded Equal Protection.

    Here:

    Version 1 -- the first Really Really Bad Argument -- goes like this: Marriage exists in order to "privilege and regulate procreative conduct." "The long-standing, fundamental purpose of our marriage laws is to privilege and regulate procreative conduct . . . [therefore] persons who wish to enter into a same sex marriage are not similarly situated to persons who wish to enter into a traditional marriage. The ancient definition of marriage as the union of one man and one woman has its basis in biology, not bigotry." Those are the words of Justice Zarella, dissenting in the Connecticut case. Note that he does not say "procreation," he says "procreative conduct."

    Howard Schweber: Same Sex Marriage: the Worst Argument in the World

    Similarly situated
    has EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THIS ARGUMENT! PLEASE, GO TAKE A ****ING LAW CLASS!

    But before you do, read the article I posted - it's a good one that explains how ridiculous the anti-same-sex marriage crowd is.
    Last edited by Macintosh; 11-07-08 at 12:01 AM.
    "Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices." - Voltaire

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    Re: Ban on gay marriage in CA still unclear

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I don't know about all this "positive" and "negative" terminology, it really depends on which side you are coming from. Clearly, the pro-gay marriage movement thinks discrimination is happening. The fact that we wouldn't have considered it discrimination in the past isn't really relevant to an emerging issue. In the past, homosexuals lacked the social and political forum to really bring this issue to the limelight.

    I personally don't understand the drama, really. And that's what it is, a bunch of moralistic drama. In Canada, gay marriage was legalized at the Federal level within a month of it becoming an emergent issue. Since then nothing has happened and people have moved on with their lives. What two other men, two other women, or a man and a woman do together is truly irrelevant to my existence. And yes, we had the right wing side trying to stop our government from doing it.

    If you really deconstruct this issue, it doesn't matter all that much. I've since met married male couples and married female couples. At first you're like... wow, I'm not used to this. Then when you walk away you forget their names, or what their jobs are, or any of the other "important" details. That's all it comes back to, for me anyway... is that it doesn't really matter. Society has not unravelled.

    All that aside, gays tend to move to more liberal centers anyway. After they come out, few stay in conservative areas, so I don't know why conservatives are so afraid of suddenly seeing gay married couples everywhere. It's not going to happen.
    That's exactly it. In one post you have pretty much hit every issue.

    Gay Marriage has been legal in California for over 6 months. Its been legal in Mass. for a lot longer?

    Has society collapsed as opponents predicted? No

    Has Heterosexual marriage deteriorated as opponents predicted? No....at least no more than previous to gay marriage.

    Did it have any effect on the daily lives of citizens? No.


    The reality is....opponents of gay marriage haul out all kinds of lies and misconceptions to promote their hatred and bigotry. Religions fund the lies and justify is as an "ends justify the means".

    Bigotry hates progress and will fight it tooth and nail. Our nation's history of discrimination tells us so.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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