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Thread: Ban on gay marriage in CA still unclear

  1. #21
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    Re: Ban on gay marriage in CA still unclear

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I suggest you then propose an amendment that changes it.
    Ohio is the same way, BTW, as are several other states.


    No.

    How does it not defeat the purpose of a Constitution is everything in the Constitution is subject to a "popular vote"?

    It sets up a system where everything is simply subject to a referendum, in which case the Constitution is meaningless.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Ban on gay marriage in CA still unclear

    The referendum system is left over from when the legislature was so corrupt that you needed the process to prevent the bastards in office from screwing the people. Frankly, I think the process should be changed to require a 2/3 majority to change the constitution. It has nothing to do with prop 8, and more the fact that most of its contents are billions of dollars in bond measures. Tax increases do require a 2/3, so instead we pay for everything by mortgaging the future. Although it looks like 8 will pas, it has a decent chance of getting overturned in 2 years if Obama speaks out against it. Still its a bit ironic that the minority democrat voters are the ones who managed to get a constitutional ban on gay marriage passed.

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    Re: Ban on gay marriage in CA still unclear

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    No on Prop 8 was a hoped for victory was an expected defeat. It will be a Prop yet again and will eventually pass.

    The amount of supporters of No have increased greatly over the years and will be the majority as new generations become able to vote.
    And that is exactly why it is strange that a Constitutional Amendment requires only a simple majority.

    I expect this to be on the ballot every year or so back and forth for the next decade.

    Which really diminishes the integrity of "Constitutional rights".
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Ban on gay marriage in CA still unclear

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Still its a bit ironic that the minority democrat voters are the ones who managed to get a constitutional ban on gay marriage passed.
    As they say, politics makes strange bedfellows. It is interesting though that it was most likely Democrats in California that voted discrimination into our Constitution.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Ban on gay marriage in CA still unclear

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    How does it not defeat the purpose of a Constitution is everything in the Constitution is subject to a "popular vote"?
    The -purpose- of a Constitution is to define the powers/limits of a Government and provide protections for the rights of the people that live under it.

    The method(s) specified to change the terms of a Constution do not defeat that purpose.

  6. #26
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    Re: Ban on gay marriage in CA still unclear

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The -purpose- of a Constitution is to define the powers/limits of a Government and provide protections for the rights of the people that live under it.

    The method(s) specified to change the terms of a Constution do not defeat that purpose.

    There is no protection for the rights of the people that live under it, if those rights are subject to a simple majority vote.

    Seriously...not that they would pass, but whats to stop measures being placed on a ballot subject only to a majority vote to do things like

    - define marriage as only between whites

    - take away the right of minorities to vote

    - take away the right of women to vote

    etc.
    Last edited by disneydude; 11-05-08 at 12:33 PM.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Ban on gay marriage in CA still unclear

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    There is no protection for the rights of the people that live under it, if those rights are subject to a simple majority vote.
    Sanme can be said for a constitution that requires 2/3 majority -- after all, with a 2/3 majority, slavery can be reinstated and women/minotiries be disnenfranchised.

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    Re: Ban on gay marriage in CA still unclear

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Sanme can be said for a constitution that requires 2/3 majority -- after all, with a 2/3 majority, slavery can be reinstated and women/minotiries be disnenfranchised.
    However, at least there is some protection there, because the rights of the minority cannot be curtailed by a simple majority.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Ban on gay marriage in CA still unclear

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    However, at least there is some protection there, because the rights of the minority cannot be curtailed by a simple majority.
    Theres also 'some' protection in a 50%+1 system.

  10. #30
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    Re: Ban on gay marriage in CA still unclear

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Theres also 'some' protection in a 50%+1 system.
    I would disagree. Such a system provides no protection to the rights of the minority, because everything becomes subject to the will of the majority.

    Latinos will be the majority in California in a decade. What's to stop a proposition to be placed on the ballot that says "Only latino's can marry and vote". If all the latinos voted for it....they could take away the rights of everyone else.
    Last edited by disneydude; 11-05-08 at 12:50 PM.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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