"He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
"All women have the right to X, but men do not have this right."
If X is "drive a car," surely you would agree that this law is gender discrimination and violates the 14th amendment.
If X is "marry a man," then the same should apply. I have not changed any of the fundamentals other than what X is.
Are you coming to bed?
I can't. This is important.
Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD
That is how positive rights work, and positive rights may not be equally endowed; see affirmative action.
The fundamental issue to confront is the entitlement society, which perceives that egalitarianism is mandated by the constitution through some generalized association with terms "equal rights" and anti-discrimination.
The constitution of most liberal democracies is written in terms of negative rights, in terms of restrictions on government, as obligations of government to abstain from certain actions.
Negative rights contain an inherent property which facilitates the "equal protection of laws".
Second and third generation rights (positive rights, positive obligations) are argued against because they can overwhelm the first generation rights (negative rights, negative obligations) of individuals -- the right to be left alone.
As positive rights can be instituted in the range from responsible to ridiculous, one is encouraged to emphasize a deontology of negative rights and remain aversive to the consequentialism of postive rights.
Excellent graphic showing county by county where the margins for or against were in the state:
Proposition 8 and Proposition 22: A tale of two votes - Los Angeles Times
Obviously only the populous SF Bay Area/central coast was strongly for the amendment while large areas of the state were against it. I would speculate that many more in the Bay Area would have rejected it had it not been from the overwhelming local media barrage condemning the proposition. Thus the usual bogus shame ploy obvious worked on many who probably don't have strong opinions and could be easily influenced otherwise in the future. Outside of LA County and the SF Bay Area counties, I doubt the same sex avocates can influence much in the way of change in the future. Some more demographics from the exit polling:
cbs5.com - Black, Religious Voters Backed Gay Marriage Ban
It is hateful to say that one loving couple shouldn't have the same rights as another to marry be it because the couple are from different religions, different shades of skin color, different parts of the world, the same gender or any other reason that religion has tried to bar certain groups the right to marry.
What about native populations of the 7 continents that where married by elders of the tribe or others where marriage was nothing more then a man picking a mate and moving her into his dwelling.
Sadly a lot of religious people have a Christian and Eurocentric view of the world, they refuse to understand that not everyone in the world lives the way they do, they then turn around and try and force people to conform to their view point, in many cases people who refused to conform where murdered or wiped out (see Native American genocide), I fear the dark path where banning gays marriage will lead to, I fear intolerant religious people who are so convinced their way is the only way that they will stop at nothing to force people to conform or die. History is stained in blood that shows I have good reason to fear.
*I use the term Christian because you yourself are using what sounds like Christian arguments, you claim to not go to church but I am guessing you still hold certain Christian views and the main backers of Prop H8te where Christian, I know other Religions like Islam and Judaism had similar people who are intolerant of homosexuality, I didn't want to single out just one group of hateful people, but it saves time typing out one group.
Last edited by veganshawn; 11-06-08 at 04:05 PM.
You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it. -Malcolm X