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Raped 13 year old girl stoned to death.

cherokee said:
Yes it is the Somalia's constitution, I've read the entire document have you?
What wrong with an Islamic government? Hmm thats a hard one. Nothing if you're a man. The question should be how long would you live under an Islamic law. Are you not use to western laws? Why don't you live in Somaliland or Somalia today? If that is your home why did you leave?
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We'd all like to see change in these countries but it is not our business to rip apart the complex and ancient fabric of their societies upon the whim of our own individual reason. If change should come to them it should be gradual and internal.
 
Cultural Destruction

"Cultural Destruction"
Laila said:
Somaliland's consitution and law has a basis of Shariah law ofc and i see nothing wrong with that. It has worked very well for it
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Blacks are not descendants of ishmael.
Laila said:
Oh and what is wrong with Islam being the state religion? seeing the country is 100% Muslim :/
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The problem is actually with the west itself which should isolate itself.
 
cherokee said:
Are you not use to western laws? Why don't you live in Somaliland or Somalia today? If that is your home why did you leave?
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I skimmed and i didn't see any of those you pointed out :/

Yes, what is wrong with Islam as a state religion?

Why do you think i left? :roll:
Im in my 20's and what happened in Somalia/Somaliland 17+ years ago ...

There are western laws in Somaliland. If i wanted to, i could walk around in jeans or heels and not get stoned to death. Female abuse is dealt with, circumcision has been almost eradicated. The only country in that region without debt to the west and no corruption. All accomplished with Islam being the state religion and aspects of Sharia in place. What is not to love about my home country?

Besides, im too attached to UK weather. I can't handle the heat of E Africa. Maybe when im older and i have a few kids i'll take them back
 
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Re: Cultural Destruction

Monk-Eye said:
"Cultural Destruction"
Blacks are not descendants of ishmael.
The problem is actually with the west itself which should isolate itself.
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Erm ....
I never stated Somali's were.

Islam got brought to my region when it was invaded
Just pure luck that Islam spread in my country in the 10th century rather than Christianity.

West isolate themselves from oil? Don't make me laugh
 
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cherokee said:
And looking the other way is some how better, like when the world turned a blind eye to Rwanda or Dafur today?
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Yes. What good would come of intervention in Rwanda or Darfur, and at what price? The world turns a blind eye-- or, at least, limits itself to meaningless "condmenation"-- to these atrocities for good reason; it would involve throwing away a lot of good mens' lives just to stand between two peoples who would rather kill each other.

Let them kill each other! Why should we get involved in these matters, when they will resolve themselves in time?
 
Korimyr the Rat said:
Yes. What good would come of intervention in Rwanda or Darfur, and at what price? The world turns a blind eye-- or, at least, limits itself to meaningless "condmenation"-- to these atrocities for good reason; it would involve throwing away a lot of good mens' lives just to stand between two peoples who would rather kill each other.

Let them kill each other! Why should we get involved in these matters, when they will resolve themselves in time?
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Wow, I'm at a total loss of words.

Rwanda and Darur wasn't/isn't about two groups fighting each other its about one group slaughtering the other. What kind of human beings are we to just look the other way?
You say its "throwing lives away"? I say its doing the right thing for the right reasons.
Standing up for those who cant is part of the American fabric but don't you worry none you and many others will never be placed in harms way. You have to serve your country before that can happen.
 
cherokee said:
Rwanda and Darur wasn't/isn't about two groups fighting each other its about one group slaughtering the other. What kind of human beings are we to just look the other way?
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I don't know, what kind of human beings are we? Our government is not lifting a finger to prevent the atrocities in either location, and they are unlikely to as there is neither great public demand to do so nor any compelling national interest in doing so.

The only difference between us is that I am okay with that.

cherokee said:
Standing up for those who cant is part of the American fabric but don't you worry none you and many others will never be placed in harms way. You have to serve your country before that can happen.
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I respect your service in the USMC, but how exactly is getting yourself killed in Africa, over African concerns that we have no stake in, serving our country?

You're right, I will not be in harm's way because of the efforts of yourself and your brother Marines. But part of the reason that you are so effective at protecting our country is that we do not throw your lives away, protecting the lives of people we have no interest in.
 
Korimyr the Rat said:
I don't know, what kind of human beings are we? Our government is not lifting a finger to prevent the atrocities in either location, and they are unlikely to as there is neither great public demand to do so nor any compelling national interest in doing so.
The only difference between us is that I am okay with that.
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The sad truth is you're right.
No one cares because IOF (Its Only Africa). But as a Marine and a human being I'm not ok with just standing by.
It goes against three words.
Honor, Courage, and Commitment.

Korimyr the Rat said:
I respect your service in the USMC, but how exactly is getting yourself killed in Africa, over African concerns that we have no stake in, serving our country?
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Because its the right thing to do. Sitting in the sidelines isn't what makes us a great country. With all due respect "Respect" from someone who doesn't have a clue about who and what we are means nothing.


Korimyr the Rat said:
You're right, I will not be in harm's way because of the efforts of yourself and your brother Marines. But part of the reason that you are so effective at protecting our country is that we do not throw your lives away, protecting the lives of people we have no interest in.
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Don't even attempt to understand what makes my fellow Marine brothers and sisters or any of my extended Military family an effective force. We believe doing the right thing by saving others isn't "Throwing your life away".

And last with thoughts like yours why should we help anyone in need, say like after a disaster? How did helping those in the 2004 title wave serve our interests?
 
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Who And What

"Who And What"
Laila said:
Islam got brought to my region when it was invaded
Just pure luck that Islam spread in my country in the 10th century rather than Christianity.
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Invasion seems to be the modus operandi.

Laila said:
West isolate themselves from oil? Don't make me laugh
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No, isolation from immigration.
 
Laila said:
I skimmed and i didn't see any of those you pointed out :/

Yes, what is wrong with Islam as a state religion?

Why do you think i left? :roll:
Im in my 20's and what happened in Somalia/Somaliland 17+ years ago ...

There are western laws in Somaliland. If i wanted to, i could walk around in jeans or heels and not get stoned to death. Female abuse is dealt with, circumcision has been almost eradicated. The only country in that region without debt to the west and no corruption. All accomplished with Islam being the state religion and aspects of Sharia in place. What is not to love about my home country?

Besides, im too attached to UK weather. I can't handle the heat of E Africa. Maybe when im older and i have a few kids i'll take them back
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Sounds like to me you didn't read it.
Besides I was just asking why you don't live there since its such a great place.
 
Korimyr the Rat,
Your recent posts makes me wonder how you would have acted before and during WWI and WWII.
 
cherokee said:
Korimyr the Rat,
Your recent posts makes me wonder how you would have acted before and during WWI and WWII.
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I would have acted pretty much exactly as the United States government acted-- I would have quietly supported England and France by lending and selling them military equipment, until Germany forced me to take an active role in the war.

I also think that if we had stayed out of World War I-- a war we really had no stake in-- there never would have been a World War II. France would not have been able to impose the draconian sanctions on Germany that allowed the Nazis to come into power.
 
Isolationist inclinations aside I believe the point of identifying and analyzing things like this are to obtain knowledge. Things like this are not so common as to be considered a microcosm of the Islamic world but they are common enough to where it becomes worrisome. I sincerely believe that Islam as a whole needs to look in the mirror and come to terms with modern society. Can anyone truly say that Islamic governance is good anywhere it's implemented? Can anyone claim that Islamic governance does not relegate women to role of second-class citizens?

Just because these things are not happening in our country does not mean we shouldn't be aware of them or that we should pretend like our compassion and intellects are finite resources to be divvied up amongst pet projects. Islamic governance is a bad thing. All religious governance is essentially a bad thing. This is the truth. I am not suggesting we actively undermine these governments through covert operations or overt shows of force, but we can effect a positive change through free-trade and effective diplomacy. Free-markets and education are a panacea for ignorance and poverty.
 
I find it funny how Korimyr the Rat, generally associated with liberal policies is arguing strongly for a paleo-isolationist conservative foreign policy while Cherokee is arguing for a liberal foreign interventionist policy along the lines of Clinton's ideas for the Balkans adventures: aka humanitarian.
 
obvious Child said:
I find it funny how Korimyr the Rat, generally associated with liberal policies is arguing strongly for a paleo-isolationist conservative foreign policy while Cherokee is arguing for a liberal foreign interventionist policy along the lines of Clinton's ideas for the Balkans adventures: aka humanitarian.
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Well many leftwingers have been anti-war even pacifist as well. It is only a subsection of leftwing and rightwing doctrines which are expressly interventionist for various reasons.
 
obvious Child said:
I find it funny how Korimyr the Rat, generally associated with liberal policies is arguing strongly for a paleo-isolationist conservative foreign policy while Cherokee is arguing for a liberal foreign interventionist policy along the lines of Clinton's ideas for the Balkans adventures: aka humanitarian.
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Really thats how you see it huh.
Hows that, What do you think you know?
 
Wessexman said:
Well many leftwingers have been anti-war even pacifist as well. It is only a subsection of leftwing and rightwing doctrines which are expressly interventionist for various reasons.
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Am I right or left wing?
 
cherokee said:
Am I right or left wing?
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You want just my own personal assessment of what I think you are.

Personally I think you are like a lot of rank and file Americans who call themselves conservative, which is to say I percieve you as borderline neocon. I certainly percieve you as someone who would have supported the Iraq war and other similar ventures and not as an non-interventionist.

I guess I'd say you were rightwing then.

These are jusr assumptions and may be totally wrong, you might not even call yourself a conservative.

Do you consider me leftwing or rightwing?
 
Wessexman said:
You want just my own personal assessment of what I think you are.

Personally I think you are like a lot of rank and file Americans who call themselves conservative, which is to say I percieve you as borderline neocon. I certainly percieve you as someone who would have supported the Iraq war and other similar ventures and not as an non-interventionist.

I guess I'd say you were rightwing then.

These are jusr assumptions and may be totally wrong, you might not even call yourself a conservative.

Do you consider me leftwing or rightwing?
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I am neither leftwing or rightwing. I have always been a strong independent.
When I look at the two I see a party with no ideas and a party of bad ideas.

I never thought going into Iraq was a good idea while we didn't have the troops needed in Afghan. If it had been my call I would have ordered a complete invasion of Afghan (200k plus) killing every Taliban and AQ member plus any who supported them.

I served proudly for 9 years in the USMC. I am PRO Military and will continue to stand behind our troops regardless of whats popular.
 
cherokee said:
I am neither leftwing or rightwing. I have always been a strong independent.
When I look at the two I see a party with no ideas and a party of bad ideas.

I never thought going into Iraq was a good idea while we didn't have the troops needed in Afghan. If it had been my call I would have ordered a complete invasion of Afghan (200k plus) killing every Taliban and AQ member plus any who supported them.

I served proudly for 9 years in the USMC. I am PRO Military and will continue to stand behind our troops regardless of whats popular.
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Well as always some initial assumptions were correct and some were wrong.

Personally I don't care much for militarism or interventionism.
 
Wessexman said:
Well as always some initial assumptions were correct and some were wrong.
Personally I don't care much for militarism or interventionism.
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It has it uses, it take a real leader to know when and how.
The last time I witnessed this was when Bush Sr put Gen Norman Schwarzkopf in charge of the first Gulf War. We have not nor ever will be the police, (in my time anyway) its not what we trained for. When you have people that must die you call us.
 
cherokee said:
Sounds like to me you didn't read it.
Besides I was just asking why you don't live there since its such a great place.
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How about you show it to me, i saw them articles. It was not there.
Seems to me you are making it up -.-'

And i stated why.
How about go back in Somaliland's history, what occured 17+ years ago?

Let me give you a hint: Civil war :roll:
 
obvious Child said:
I find it funny how Korimyr the Rat, generally associated with liberal policies is arguing strongly for a paleo-isolationist conservative foreign policy while Cherokee is arguing for a liberal foreign interventionist policy along the lines of Clinton's ideas for the Balkans adventures: aka humanitarian.
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You know, I keep trying to explain to people that their little "liberal vs. conservative" model of political theory doesn't include me.

I am far from being an isolationist. I just believe that our foreign policy should be designed around our national interests, not on vague humanitarian notions that will only end up being sacrificed in favor of our national interests anyway.
 
Wessexman said:
Personally I think you are like a lot of rank and file Americans who call themselves conservative, which is to say I percieve you as borderline neocon.
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If I may butt in here for just a second....there's a BIG difference between conservative and neo-con. Neo-cons are leftist in nature...big spending one world types. True conservatives are nothing of the sort.:2wave:
 
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