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San Francisco weighs decriminalizing prostitution

Kernel Sanders said:
I agree (except for your typical hyper-partisan crap) and don't think it should be legal, but there are valid arguments for legalization. Many of the very worst aspects of the business such as violence and human trafficking could be greatly reduced or even eliminated by creating a legitimate, regulated market. In worst case benefits from decriminalization, but the average case is greatly penalized.
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I have been to Amsterdam, there is nothing positive about legalizing it; how humanizing is it for women to sit in display windows in panties and bras on display as merchandise to be bought?
 
Truth Detector said:
I have been to Amsterdam, there is nothing positive about legalizing it; how humanizing is it for women to sit in display windows in panties and bras on display as merchandise to be bought?
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If they are there by choice I don't see what is so objectionable.
 
Truth Detector said:
I have been to Amsterdam, there is nothing positive about legalizing it; how humanizing is it for women to sit in display windows in panties and bras on display as merchandise to be bought?
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Should strip clubs also be made illegal? Is it your opinion the government should dictate to its citizens how and what two consenting adults should be able to do with their bodies in a safe manner within a private environment?
 
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dclxvinoise said:
I don't think it demeans women or men at all. It's just sex for money. Now, what you are referring to is women on the streets who are either poor or in desperate need of a drug fix and they prostitute themselves to get it. I think that obviously something like that wouldn't fit into a more regulated system and should remain illegal. I do think women should be allowed to work independently, but there obviously should be similar regulations in place for them as well.
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Yes, nothing demeaning about a woman whoring herself out to sweaty ugly men who can't get laid for a few bucks.

It's obvious you don't get it. I won't say anything more on the matter, the idea of Prostitution can only be argued by those lacking in even the most basic common sense and morality.

I'm dismissed. :2wave:
 
Dogger807 said:
Just because they don't share your medieval moral system doesn't mean they have no morals. Morals change thru the ages, you may not agree with the changes, but that does not make people who do not share your views immoral. And San Francisco is hardly a cesspool.... very nice people there.
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But that's the thing right? They have this set of morality they think is great and want to force it on everyone else. The ironic thing is that this is the same group of people pretty much who make claims about the "liberals" and the Democrats trying to use government to run our lives; and they do so with great indignation as if they are appalled by the idea of government running our lives. Well to be honest, I am fairly repulsed by the idea as well. However, this group in particular isn't so much against the use of government to run our lives as much as they are against the use of government to run our lives in a manner they don't agree with. They are more than happy to use government to run our lives. To tell us what's good and what's bad, what's useful and what's pointless, what we should do and what we shouldn't do. They have no objection to the actual act of government coercion; they only object when that coercion is used in a manner contrary to they way they want to run our lives for us.

It's rather hypocritical in the end, but that's the way a lot of this goes regardless. It's why that I say these types of people can't actually handle freedom. Because people are going to make choices that they don't like and they are going to be so conceited, so holier-than-thou, that they can not let others make those choices. Instead they will call down the force of government to prevent people from making those choices. Freedom is a scary thing in the end, and you have to be able to have the resolve, the backbone, to be able to handle it.
 
Truth Detector said:
Yes, nothing demeaning about a woman whoring herself out to sweaty ugly men who can't get laid for a few bucks.
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If it's her choice there is nothing demeaning about it. As far as sex goes, women have a definite advantage in my opinion. Most men are easily led, controlled and manipulated by sex. I see nothing wrong with a woman utilizing this to its full potential if it is her choice to do so. Why do you insist on characterizing men who go to prostitutes in the most stereotypical way possible?

It's obvious you don't get it. I won't say anything more on the matter, the idea of Prostitution can only be argued by those lacking in even the most basic common sense and morality.

I'm dismissed. :2wave:
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I don't think it's an issue of common sense or morality really. If it is against your moral code, don't engage in it. It's that simple. Not everyone sees things the way you do and should have the right to do so if they feel like doing so. As long as consenting adults are involved there's nothing wrong with it, in my opinion.
 
It's interesting that we're talking about legalization of prostitution in San Fransisco and most are assuming that the prostitutes are females.
 
DiAnna said:
It's about time. Criminalizing what two consenting adults do sexually, for money or not, is not about protecting society; it's about punishing people based on one segment of society's definition of morality.
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And a stupid, indefensible definition of morality at that. Whenever the actions of consenting adults which do not hurt anyone else are banned on "moral" grounds it usually involves citing obscure passages of ancient holy books.
 
Have any of you guys been to Amsterdam its like Disney world had a red light district.If your a guy with your mates people follow you down the street asking you to by cocaine asking you if ya wanna buy cocaine.

As for the prostitutes alot of them are African and eastern european women who have often been tricked into coming.Some are also illegal immigrants but the liberal laws dont act against that so well.However their pimps and these guys are pimps can chuck them out in which case whats is the girl suppose to do with nowhere to live.I know in the perfect world its just 2 consenting adults but it isnt gonna cut the abuse.
 
mikhail said:
Have any of you guys been to Amsterdam its like Disney world had a red light district.If your a guy with your mates people follow you down the street asking you to by cocaine asking you if ya wanna buy cocaine.

As for the prostitutes alot of them are African and eastern european women who have often been tricked into coming.Some are also illegal immigrants but the liberal laws dont act against that so well.However their pimps and these guys are pimps can chuck them out in which case whats is the girl suppose to do with nowhere to live.I know in the perfect world its just 2 consenting adults but it isnt gonna cut the abuse.
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Well, I also think there are some very serious differences between our culture and the culture in Amsterdam. If you look at the brothels in Nevada they aren't seedy like that at all. It is a professional business and the women are there completely by choice.
 
Legalizing it, setting up brothels and taxing them would cost a hell of a lot less then waging another silly moral war on it where we try to fight it everywhere. Keep hooking illegals. Make brothels in every state.
 
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Every day we get more and more accepting of sleazy behavior.

Legalizing prostitution will attract people who would never do it if it were illegal.
 
sazerac said:
Legalizing prostitution will attract people who would never do it if it were illegal.
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And this is your business because...?
 
Ikari said:
And this is your business because...?
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Excuse me? Is murder my business? Is a country of drug addicts my business? We live in a society, it's not to each his own.
 
sazerac said:
Excuse me? Is murder my business? Is a country of drug addicts my business? We live in a society, it's not to each his own.
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What does prostitution have to do with murder? Or drugs? They're probably only loosely correlated right now because prostitution is illegal. Chances are if you legalize it, prostitution would separate itself from those two things. Not that drugs should be illegal either...murder should as you are infringing upon the rights of others.

Also, societies have no rights, only individuals possess rights.
 
Truth Detector said:
I would suggest that many here who have such romantic notions about this victimless crime that demeans both the women and the men who engage in it, go out to any major city street where prostitution is conducted and see how sexy it is.

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Man, you just can't make up this level of denial; the notion that women who demean themselves and allow scumbags fondle and **** them as being a choice is just beyond the pale. It is called desperation more than anything else.
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One thing I think that is important to keep in mind is that what you can SEE in any city doesn't represent the bulk of the activity. MOST illegal prostitution in the U.S. has moved to the internet.

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In a sense I agree with you. I wouldn't want to be a prostitute. But if my prospects were crappy full time minimum wage or crappy part time prostitution I think I might just have to consider allowing scumbags to fondle me.

I don't want to take the thread in a different direction but the things people have to endure to make minimum wage in this country can be pretty demeaning as well.
 
Ikari said:
What does prostitution have to do with murder? Or drugs? They're probably only loosely correlated right now because prostitution is illegal. Chances are if you legalize it, prostitution would separate itself from those two things. Not that drugs should be illegal either...murder should as you are infringing upon the rights of others.

Also, societies have no rights, only individuals possess rights.
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Society allows rights. Individuals have nothing to do with them.

Anything that causes people to have a crap life affects me. Drugs lead to a crap life. Crime leads to a crap life, and prostitution leads to a crap life.

This decision is completely up to the public, not the individual.
 
sazerac said:
Society allows rights. Individuals have nothing to do with them.

Anything that causes people to have a crap life affects me. Drugs lead to a crap life. Crime leads to a crap life, and prostitution leads to a crap life.

This decision is completely up to the public, not the individual.
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Wow...that's a rather communistic view of things.
 
Ikari said:
Wow...that's a rather communistic view of things.
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Oh, come on! Everyone knows I'm to the right of Attila the Hun!

Actually, this really has nothing to do with the economy. And conservative societies are the most likely to be strict about crime and prostitution.
 
Truth Detector said:
The notion that Prostitution is a choice for someone who can make choices is quite amusing.

Why is that?

I suggest you take a look at how well legalized drugs and prostitution works in Holland; look up Amsterdam if you want an honest answer.

Well of course. Also, Nevada is another example. But these things happen anyway, but when its legal, the regulated system replaces the pimps with a taxed business. STD tests are mandatory, and its zoned as well, often in places where nobody wants to live anyway.

I imagine you have some romantic notion that prostitution is where beautiful smart women engage in contracts with handsome smart men and they meet in an expensive hotel after some expensive drinks.

Not all prostitutes are women, not all buyers are men. Have you ever heard of a Gigolo?

I would suggest that many here who have such romantic notions about this victimless crime that demeans both the women and the men who engage in it, go out to any major city street where prostitution is conducted and see how sexy it is.


Your basing all prostitution on criminal prostitution. Why don't you check out Amsterdam for yourself?

Man, you just can't make up this level of denial; the notion that women who demean themselves and allow scumbags fondle and **** them as being a choice is just beyond the pale. It is called desperation more than anything else.


Not all prostitutes are women, not all buyers are men. Have you ever heard of a Gigolo? Also, have you considered that they might not mind?
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These things happen anyway, but when its legal, the regulated system replaces the pimps with a taxed business. STD tests are mandatory, and its zoned as well, often in places where nobody wants to live anyway. I think that's a better system than the current, so does most of the industrialized world, throughout Europe, and I think Japan too.

As for the woman who sold to former New York governor, I hope she's doing okay. She did look haught though, and she's in a better situation because of what she did; but this is more of the exception not the rule. Legal prostitution would be a bit more like that.
 
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dclxvinoise said:
Well, I also think there are some very serious differences between our culture and the culture in Amsterdam. If you look at the brothels in Nevada they aren't seedy like that at all. It is a professional business and the women are there completely by choice.
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I think this is an important point. New Zeland has legalised brothels and doesnt seam to have any problem with human trafficking. The brothels tend to be run as cooperatives so the potential for abuse is much lower.

Also bear in mind that banning prostitution isnt that same as stopping human trafficking. The UK has a huge trafficking problem and prositution is illegal across the country. Those trafficking women would be easyer to track down, and those who where trafficked would find it easyer to get help, if prostitution were legal. Though sadly its only the green party that has been brave enough to surgest this so far.
 
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Truth Detector said:
The notion that Prostitution is a choice for someone who can make choices is quite amusing.

I suggest you take a look at how well legalized drugs and prostitution works in Holland; look up Amsterdam if you want an honest answer.

I imagine you have some romantic notion that prostitution is where beautiful smart women engage in contracts with handsome smart men and they meet in an expensive hotel after some expensive drinks.

I would suggest that many here who have such romantic notions about this victimless crime that demeans both the women and the men who engage in it, go out to any major city street where prostitution is conducted and see how sexy it is.

Man, you just can't make up this level of denial; the notion that women who demean themselves and allow scumbags fondle and **** them as being a choice is just beyond the pale. It is called desperation more than anything else.
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I find the last paragraph interesting because the normal responce to poverty from your ilk is "work harder and you,ll get over it". Why is there this sudden overflow of moral outrage when it come to people selling themselves as a result of poverty and none as regards the poverty itself?
 
jujuman13 said:
Link
San Francisco weighs decriminalizing prostitution
The sooner this is done the better.
However while legalizing Prostitution is ok, it should be done in such a way that it is controlled much the same way that the Netherlands control Prostitution over there.
Frequent screenings by Medical personnel and taxation on the income.
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Excellent news. It's about time. Sex is not a crime, so why should it become a crime when money changes hands?
 
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