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Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘vaccin

Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

Vaccines work only if given BEFORE exposure, not after. Learn2Science

No ****. That still doesn't convince me of anything.
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

I'm just not terribly convinced by these fear tactics, sorry. Forcing people to give their child a drug that the child doesn't need at the time isn't something I will ever support. Medically unnecessary treatments is just something I oppose.

Here is a list, check it twice and list which ones you would not prvide to your children?

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/hcp/imz/child-adolescent.html
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

I'm just not terribly convinced by these fear tactics, sorry. Forcing people to give their child a drug that the child doesn't need at the time isn't something I will ever support. Medically unnecessary treatments is just something I oppose.

A vaccine is not a drug.
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

That all sounds good unless your child is one of the thousands that end up dying of measles.

Then get the vaccine if that's what you want to do. I'm not the one advocating against choice, I'm all for it.
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

Unfortunately, measles is beginning to spread again because a whole bunch of people are foolishly refusing to get vaccinations.

And the possibility of you dying from measles is less than getting struck by lightning.
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

Then get the vaccine if that's what you want to do. I'm not the one advocating against choice, I'm all for it.

The problem is the 'choice' to not get vaccinated might kill some immune compromised child who cannot or has not been vaccinated, or the small % of those for whom the vaccines does not work. It's impossible to limit the effects of that "choice" to only the children of parents who decide not to vaccinate.

This is well known and presented in every discussion of vaccines, herd immunity, how it works and when it can break down, so you've just decided to disregard to the risk that choice imposes on others. That is the reason states are forced to limit that 'choice.'
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

And the possibility of you dying from measles is less than getting struck by lightning.

It is still a serious disease (which Ikari already explained to you previously), especially when 2.6 million people died per year before measles vaccinations were introduced.

Thanks to vaccines, the number of measles deaths have been reduced by 79%, and prevented 20.3 million deaths from measles.
 
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Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

The problem is the 'choice' to not get vaccinated might kill some immune compromised child who cannot or has not been vaccinated, or the small % of those for whom the vaccines does not work. It's impossible to limit the effects of that "choice" to only the children of parents who decide not to vaccinate.

This is well known and presented in every discussion of vaccines, herd immunity, how it works and when it can break down, so you've just decided to disregard to the risk that choice imposes on others. That is the reason states are forced to limit that 'choice.'

Oh I see. So it's good science to put the vast majority at risk for the sake of a faction of people. Good to know.
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

And the possibility of you dying from measles is less than getting struck by lightning.

If that's true (don't feel like verifying), and the only risk we should worry about is death, then the risk of vaccines is a small fraction of the risk of measles. So you're (theoretically at least) avoiding one risk to assume a FAR greater one.

And, again, the risk is small, unless the child is already sick or has a compromised immune system, and not vaccinating puts that child at a higher risk because of the breakdown of herd immunity, etc.
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

Oh I see. So it's good science to put the vast majority at risk for the sake of a faction of people. Good to know.

How is the vast majority being put at risk, exactly?
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

What I find fascinating about anti-vaxxers is that they stretch across the political spectrum. Unlike anti-evolution creationists and the anti global warming crowd, anti-vaxxers vary from far right gun hoarding, bunker types to far left herbal tea liberals. Seems that both sides have found an bizarre non-issue that they agree on.
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

I didn't discount that at all. Why do you say that I did? I often quote CDC findings as a very credible source on many subjects.

I did say that the CDC is a strong proponent of vaccinations and therefore have strong motive to produce studies to support their point of view. I did not say or even infer that those studies were rigged or arrived at an incorrect conclusion, only that those who strongly support a particular point of view may or may not be able to be objective.

For that reason I strongly support including arguments made by people with different points of view and analyzing who makes the best case before choosing what to believe about anything.

And this is not questioning the CDC? Maybe they are proponents of vaccination because all the scientific studies have shown the efficacy of them and the minuscule amount of risk with them. We don't need to listen to those who have no scientific basis for opposing them. So if there is a large amount of medical scientists questioning vaccines please bring them on. But don't bring in celebrity's, non-scientific medical people, conspiracy theorists, etc. just because they have a feeling or anecdotal evidence with no credible evidence to back them. Or those who just don't trust scientific studies because they see political influence in everything. We really don't need to listen to every point of view on every issue. When I go to the doctor, if I want a second opinion I go to another doctor. I don't go to a celebrity or non-medical person for advice. If I do any research, I go to reliable medical websites, not a conspiracy theorist's blog.

The CDC's job is to protect us from anything harmful to our health. That is what their ulterior motive is. Everyone should be kissing their feet for the work they have done to fight ebola and the zika virus. The good news is that Trump has exempted public health care workers from a planned hiring freeze. He is showing a trace of brain and good for him.

More work lies ahead to fight Zika, other threats: CDC chief | Fox News
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

It is still a serious disease (which Ikari already explained to you previously), especially when 2.6 million people died per year before measles vaccinations were introduced.

Thanks to vaccines, the number of measles deaths have been reduced by 79%, and prevented 20.3 million deaths from measles.

Harpocrates Speaks: Pre-Vaccine Declines in Measles Mortality

Looking at this graph, it's pretty clear that death from measles declined considerably before the introduction of the vaccine. Death rate remained fairly steady through the first 18 or so years, then started to drop until about the 1940s, where it leveled off quite a bit. After introduction of the vaccine, it dropped to almost nothing. A similar graph, though looking at a smaller range and using a logarithmic scale, shows a similar, though more even and gradual, drop in deaths:
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

You do realize that very few deaths can be plausibly connected to vaccinations, the same with serious reactions to a vaccination, right?

Vaccines are very safe. The risk of getting a serious complication is extremely low.

Without vaccinations, more people would be dead from the diseases they are supposed to prevent, than from the vaccine himself.



Please don't try to guilt trip me. I don't know anything about your personal experience.

And even if your daughter did experience a serious health complication from a vaccine, that's one of the very few cases that it has happened to.

The point which you are ignoring is vaccines can and do harm children...
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

Oh I see. So it's good science to put the vast majority at risk for the sake of a faction of people. Good to know.

I guess I'll quit after this one because you're dishonestly interpreting my comments and ignoring many others, and it's clear your mind cannot be changed by citing the evidence.

But just to repeat, the scientific evidence, ALL OF IT, shows that the risk of vaccines is FAR, FAR, FAR LOWER than the risk of the prevented disease. So vaccines do NOT in fact "put the vast majority" at risk - vaccines substantially LOWER the risk for the vast, vast majority.

The point of my comment was obviously that it's one thing for you to "choose" to not vaccinate your child if we could limit the effects of that choice to just that child, but we cannot. Doing so increases the risk for that child AND many others who have no part in your "choice."
 
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Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

Actually, no, it's nothing like either one of them. Apparently you don't know anything about the CDC nor these studies based on what you posted.

Sure it is. It is a self-worth AND validating system.
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

The point which you are ignoring is vaccines can and do harm children...

I shouldn't speak for others, but the post you quoted very explicitly acknowledged the risk and put that risk into context.
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

I already know about that.

That does not change the fact that vaccinations are very safe, and anyone that experience adverse effects from vaccinations are in the very, very small minority.

WHO | Six common misconceptions about immunization

The problem lies with those preszuring parents to get vaccines or those mandating government requirements to force vaccinations to children that might die from them. At this point I dont see you doing this.
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

I didn't discount that at all. Why do you say that I did? I often quote CDC findings as a very credible source on many subjects.

I did say that the CDC is a strong proponent of vaccinations and therefore have strong motive to produce studies to support their point of view. I did not say or even infer that those studies were rigged or arrived at an incorrect conclusion, only that those who strongly support a particular point of view may or may not be able to be objective.

For that reason I strongly support including arguments made by people with different points of view and analyzing who makes the best case before choosing what to believe about anything.

So the CDC research, all of it through the years, is garbage because you've decided their pro-vaccination stance means it has no validity.

Then don't have your kids vaccinated if it worries you so much. Me, I'll trust the CDC. They know what they're talking about, as do all of the other scientists and doctors who've weighed in. RFK Jr, Donald Trump and Jenny McCarthy aren't the kinds of people I trust on this issue.
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va


You left this part out. I wonder why?

One other thing to note in this graph. Sometimes, anti-vaccine folks will simply draw a straight line following the general slope of the data and extrapolate that by 2010, measles would not cause any deaths and would be gone on its own. But that ignores changes in medical care that occurred over that span of time, as well as ignoring changes in the slope itself. We see, for instance, that there's a gradual decline until the early 1920s, then a slightly steeper slope until the late 1940s, with a leveling off in the 1950s. A perfectly straight line just doesn't fit, at least if one is being honest. We see a precipitous drop in the number of cases around 1963. Notice, also that while death rates had been declining, those also dropped about ten-fold in the space of a few years. Compare that to the pre-vaccine era, where it took decades for an equally great drop in death rates (e.g., 1918-1943 and 1943-1967). That impact is something that you don't see in the graph favored by anti-vaccine folks.
 
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Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

The point which you are ignoring is vaccines can and do harm children...

So can bars of soap, safety car boosters, cribs, plastic bottles, falling branches, drivers on the road, icicles, and a lot of things. Anything is harmful and the reality is anything poses risks. So don't vaccinate your children. I support a parents' right to make the decision. Just don't expose your children to other people or their children. This isn't complicated.
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

The point which you are ignoring is vaccines can and do harm children...

I never said they couldn't. Anything can harm you, dude. The point is that the risk is extremely low, and it is worth getting the vaccine, rather than not and contracting the disease it's supposed to prevent.
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

If people choose not to vaccinate their kids, that's fine by me. Their (stupid) choice. I just don't want their kids around my kids - or around me for that matter.

Why would that matter if your kids have been vaccinated?
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

Because trying to act like vaccines are these dangerous things is not only wrong, but stupid.



Of course I would. But there are so very few (emphasis on the very few) cases where this happens.



Your acting like these anomalies are a common occurrence. They aren't.

They are extremely rare.




There's a distinct difference between questioning the status quo, and willingly rejecting objective facts like many anti-vaxxers do.

No. They are not as rare as you think. Non reporting of reactions is extremely common. We saw multiple doctors all of whom they reported notbing because they scoffed at the idea that it was an adverse reaction and one even laughed at the idea as she was recovering from life saving surgery. Vaccines are not safe to those that die.
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

You left this part out.

No, I didn't. It was you who incorrectly stated that the measles vaccine is the sole reason for the decline in mortality, not me.
 
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