Russian dissident Kasparov warns of a Trump-Putin alliance

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-dissident-kasparov-warns-of-a-trump-putin-alliance-210754898.html

[FONT=&quot]Former world chess champion Garry Kasparov, a Russian dissident now living in exile in the United States, warned today that the world could be what he called “entering a very dark ages” unless President-elect Donald Trump reverses course and stands up to Vladimir Putin.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]In an interview with Yahoo News chief investigative correspondent Michael Isikoff, Kasparov said that Putin and his top aides, including Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, are eagerly anticipating Trump’s presidency because they believe he will cut a “grand bargain” with Russia that will expand its sphere of influence.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“They are all waiting for Trump,” Kasparov said. “They believe Trump will change everything … and [give] in to all of Putin’s demands — recognizing Russian annexation of Crimea,” as well as undercutting NATO and “sacrificing the Baltic states.”[/FONT]

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I was a fan of Kasparov, Capablanca and Fischer when I was younger (and had yet to encounter Star Wars). Some of the best conversations I've ever had have been in NYC parks playing chess with folks and discussing his brilliant games in the 80s with Karpov. The guy was the chess equivalent of a military strategist. His work was brilliant.

Anywho, his views on the politics of the US don't matter to me all that much. However, if anybody knows Russian politics and knows them well, it's him. He does not trust Russia under Putin for obvious reasons that many Americans ignore.

It'll be interesting to see what happens to the myriad of dissenters who have been discussing the threat of Putin with far more credibility than some of our politicians for the last 10 years. Will they be attacked by the same people who practically made a joke of the Russian threat (Sarah-Russia-visible-from-backyard-Palin) or will they be ignored?

We will see.

Looks like it's the MSM who are working hand in hand with Russian agents, not Trump. CNN reported that if Trump were elected, we would get a plague of locusts and that didn't happen.

reinoe said:

Looks like it's the MSM who are working hand in hand with Russian agents, not Trump. CNN reported that if Trump were elected, we would get a plague of locusts and that didn't happen.

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Kasparov isn't really a Russian sympathizer and the guy has always seen himself as an outside for decades. He's got a few citizenships and practically goes by any of them, before Russian.

Hatuey said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-dissident-kasparov-warns-of-a-trump-putin-alliance-210754898.html



I was a fan of Kasparov, Capablanca and Fischer when I was younger (and had yet to encounter Star Wars). Some of the best conversations I've ever had have been in NYC parks playing chess with folks and discussing his brilliant games in the 80s with Karpov. The guy was the chess equivalent of a military strategist. His work was brilliant.

Anywho, his views on the politics of the US don't matter to me all that much. However, if anybody knows Russian politics and knows them well, it's him. He does not trust Russia under Putin for obvious reasons that many Americans ignore.

It'll be interesting to see what happens to the myriad of dissenters who have been discussing the threat of Putin with far more credibility than some of our politicians for the last 10 years. Will they be attacked by the same people who practically made a joke of the Russian threat (Sarah-Russia-visible-from-backyard-Palin) or will they be ignored?

We will see.

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Crimea is essentially none of our business. It was actually part of Russia until Nikita Kruschev came to power. Kruschev deannexed Crimea from Russia proper and made it a semi autonomous Soviet Republic, much like Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia already were. What Putin did was reverse what Kruschev did. To me, this is an internal matter. So I am on board with Trump not interfering on this.

danarhea said:

Crimea is essentially none of our business. It was actually part of Russia until Nikita Kruschev came to power. Kruschev deannexed Crimea from Russia proper and made it a semi autonomous Soviet Republic, much like Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia already were. What Putin did was reverse what Kruschev did. To me, this is an internal matter. So I am on board with Trump not interfering on this.

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Crimea is our business and has been for decades as a stable Ukraine is better for both NATO and US interests than a land-hungry Russia. This borderline isolationist position where you think that what Khrushchev did (which essentially was kick-starting the idea of a free Ukraine) 50 years ago makes this not our business is kind of weird and not one I care for with all due respect.

I say this seeing that Ukraine is one of the countries in the region that actively wants to be part of the West and has a population that unlike the Iraqis are actually receptive to the notion of not letting dictators and religious regimes run their country.

as far as I'm concerned Russia's land grab in Crimea goes right back to NATO expansionism.
While Putin violated the Budapest Memorandum ( keeping Ukraine whole) we also meddled in the last revolution.
Victoria Nuland was tromping around Independence Square ( Kyiv) with her cupcake patrol

We took active steps to help elect a pro-west government.

Imagine if you will Putin meddling in Mexican elections on our border.

To make a long post as short as possible Putin needed a secure path to Sevastopol -he is currently building a land bridge there.

As much as I admire Kasparov's chess - some really brilliant strategies; him and Putin have differences in goals.
Putin wants to push back on NATO expansion - Kasparov is only interested in a democratic Russia.

Our interest has to be some kind of détente with Russia, as putting more and more resources into a stalemated situation
( to use a chess analogy regarding the Russian /NATO standoff in eastern Europe) does not serve US interests

LOL I think he is a little too late with this warning...

annata said:

as far as I'm concerned Russia's land grab in Crimea goes right back to NATO expansionism.
While Putin violated the Budapest Memorandum ( keeping Ukraine whole) we also meddled in the last revolution.
Victoria Nuland was tromping around Independence Square ( Kyiv) with her cupcake patrol

We took active steps to help elect a pro-west government.

Imagine if you will Putin meddling in Mexican elections on our border.

To make a long post as short as possible Putin needed a secure path to Sevastopol -he is currently building a land bridge there.

As much as I admire Kasparov's chess - some really brilliant strategies; him and Putin have differences in goals.
Putin wants to push back on NATO expansion - Kasparov is only interested in a democratic Russia.

Our interest has to be some kind of détente with Russia, as putting more and more resources into a stalemated situation
( to use a chess analogy regarding the Russian /NATO standoff in eastern Europe) does not serve US interests

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Though I agree with your point concerning a Mexico-Russia relationship, I think it's fair to mention that if Putin decided to meddle in another country's businesses to promote a pro-democracy government, I doubt many people would oppose him and I doubt any sanctions would have been levied. However, he isn't. He has consolidated power and destroyed any institutions he finds too liberal. He's also tried to slightly chew away at his neighbors with impunity.

The other problem is that we know what has happened to Russia under Putin. It has become less democratic, less willing to work with organizations promoting economic and social freedoms, and it has become prey to what are basically cartels run by a collage of mafia bosses, former generals and ex-KGB.

That said, the proliferation of the Russian hooligans in the rest of Europe is not coincidental. They fight in packs, and have attacked even the most hardened European hooligans (England) with tons of success. This is seems like a good metaphor to the general attitude which has been created in Russia by Putin as it concerns the West.

What is sad is that EVERYONE has passively stood by him as he makes Russia a general threat to the West with little worry that the West will say or do anything that matters. Do you think Putin is hurting by the recession?

As opposed to the Obama-Castro alliance, the Obama-Soros alliance, the Obama-Palestine alliance, or the Obama-Iran alliance?

Erod said:

As opposed to the Obama-Castro alliance, the Obama-Soros alliance, the Obama-Palestine alliance, or the Obama-Iran alliance?

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We're talking about things that exist, not conspiracy theories. Please post something from Breitbart so I can take your opinion less seriously.

Hatuey said:

We're talking about things that exist, not conspiracy theories. Please post something from Breitbart so I can take your opinion less seriously.

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"The Russians hacked our election and won it for Trump" is the dumbest conspiracy in American history.

Erod said:

"The Russians hacked our election and won it for Trump" is the dumbest conspiracy in American history.

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To my knowledge, nobody has said that here and most posters were discussing this issue coherently until you and reinoe showed up.

Again, run along with the conspiracy theories, or post something from Breitbart, so I can stake you less seriously. Maybe something from Townhall?

Watching Erod try and derail a thread to be about Obama never gets old.

Hatuey said:

To my knowledge, nobody has said that here and most posters were discussing this issue coherently until you and reinoe showed up.

Again, run along with the conspiracy theories, or post something from Breitbart, so I can stake you less seriously. Maybe something from Townhall?

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A wayward Russian dissident is hardly a source to base anything on.

And can the guy actually take office before we assume anything about his approach to Putin?

Geez.

Erod said:

A wayward Russian dissident is hardly a source to base anything on.

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A wayward Russian dissident who in one week has been on the news for his views on Russian politics more often than we ever will be in our entire careers in any field we chose from here until we die. If the problem is the general importance of the person giving the opinion - anonymous forum posters well known for trying to derail threads should probably not talk.

I'm glad you stopped talking about Obama but this isn't about the "importance" of people. If it was, your opinion on anything politics related would be far less important than that of a political activist and academic who has actually demonstrated against the current state of Russian politics.

Third time is the charm? Maybe Yahoo comments are a better place for you, little buddy. I hear people there take themselves very very very seriously.

Hatuey said:

A wayward Russian dissident who in one week has been on the news for his views on Russian politics more often than we ever will be in our entire careers in any field we chose from here until we die. If the problem is the general importance of the person giving the opinion - anonymous forum posters well known for trying to derail threads should probably not talk.

I'm glad you stopped talking about Obama but this isn't about the "importance" of people. If it was, your opinion on anything politics related would be far less important than that of a political activist and academic who has actually demonstrated against the current state of Russian politics.

Third time is the charm? Maybe Yahoo comments are a better place for you, little buddy. I hear people there take themselves very very very seriously.

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So cute and so bitter. It's delicious watching you fools squirm.

Can the guy just take office? I don't even like him, but I'm willing to wait until he's actually the effin president.

Now back to your basement. Mom's gonna be mad.

Hatuey said:

Though I agree with your point concerning a Mexico-Russia relationship, I think it's fair to mention that if Putin decided to meddle in another country's businesses to promote a pro-democracy government, I doubt many people would oppose him and I doubt any sanctions would have been levied. However, he isn't. He has consolidated power and destroyed any institutions he finds too liberal. He's also tried to slightly chew away at his neighbors with impunity.

The other problem is that we know what has happened to Russia under Putin. It has become less democratic, less willing to work with organizations promoting economic and social freedoms, and it has become prey to what are basically cartels run by a collage of mafia bosses, former generals and ex-KGB.

That said, the proliferation of the Russian hooligans in the rest of Europe is not coincidental. They fight in packs, and have attacked even the most hardened European hooligans (England) with tons of success. This is seems like a good metaphor to the general attitude which has been created in Russia by Putin as it concerns the West.

What is sad is that EVERYONE has passively stood by him as he makes Russia a general threat to the West with little worry that the West will say or do anything that matters. Do you think Putin is hurting by the recession?

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I look at US/Russian relationship froma nationalist pov. Just like Putin is a Russian nationalist.
I'm not aware of Russian "hooliganism" out side of Ukraine -at least not at the level of the "little green men"..you can provide some links if you wish.

What I'm really looking at is how to best adjust US/Russian relations then both to serve European protection ( part of US interests)
as well as not fueling a Cold War 2.0 with Russia.
I look at China's burgeoning Defense spending as a more existential threat to the USA. In short - checking Chinese expansionism like they are doing in the South China Sea is not part of NATO's concern. It's up to the US alone, perhaps with Vietnam and such ,but the economic and military burden will fall on the USA alone.

So every bit of manpower, and every $$spent maintaining what is a military stalemate in Europe is resources we don't have available elsewhere.

Russia (Putin) doesn't respond to sanctions in Ukraine, it's expanding in the Mideast -not just Syria -but also it's commercial ties with Egypt.
If gas prices go up again it's economy might pull out of it current negative growth.
And collapsing west/Russian ties with the west forces it further into a Sino-Russian alliance -which decidedly does not benefit US interests.

So I want Russian hacking/ "fake news" etc. stopped. but I don't want to do it by "throwing rocks" as Graham just said in the INTEL meeting.
I do not want escalations of troops or weapons or other costly resources in Europe - where a stalemate is in fact the desire position.

Maybe we can work with Russia or China on some international treaties to check cyber-warfare. Iran is becoming a big player there too .

Sorry if I wandered off topic a bit -but I think the strategic relationship with Russia needs to shift more towards détente for practical reasons.
Not to ignore the hacking -but to put it in a perspective and perhaps deal with that separately then a military response

Erod said:

So cute and so bitter. It's delicious watching you fools squirm. Can the guy just take office? I don't even like him, but I'm willing to wait until he's actually the effin president. Now back to your basement. Mom's gonna be mad.

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Lol, you're so deliciously hypocritical:

Erod said:

As if there's anyone with the gonads to do anything to Russia or Putin. Obama might threaten him with the silent treatment.

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Erod said:

Likewise, part of this war with ISIS, the intensifying tension with Russia, the subversive nature of China.....none of it comes with a playbook. But you can't just stand pat forever.

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Erod said:

Putin wants a war, and his thirst for it is growing with his age.

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Erod said:

No doubt the seeds of a major scale war is brewing for down the road. It's all very biblical actually.

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Erod said:

Bottom line is, Putin is striking while we have the weakest leader in our history at the helm.

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Putin was a threat, until Trump - the guy you supposedly don't like - got in power. Again, there is nothing serious about your posting style.

In contrast:

Hatuey said:

.... The West doesn't have to fear Russia... lol... That's right. Only Russia's neighbors have anything to fear. Everyone else can just chill back and be fine. **** this Putin prick. I'm glad his country's economy is in shambles and their currency is all ****ed. It's just a shame that so many of his **** sucking supporters on this forum have been banned. It'd be fun to watch them try and claim that he's a "strong" leader. He's a dictator, a dime a dozen in Russian history.

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The reason I don't take your opinion seriously is cause of how silly your history on this forum is.

Try to turn it into a thread about Obama again so I can laugh a bit.

Hatuey said:

Lol, you're so deliciously hypocritical:











Putin was a threat, until Trump - the guy you supposedly don't like - got in power. Again, there is nothing serious about your posting style.

In contrast:



The reason I don't take your opinion seriously is cause of how silly your history on this forum is.

Try to turn it into a thread about Obama again so I can laugh a bit.

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I have not questioned that Putin has nothing but evil intentions. I just laugh at your insistence that he's Trump's his good-time buddy, and that he managed to steer an election with a keyboard and mouse.

And your history here is well-documented drivel. You're a Bernie Sanders rally based in less reality.

Erod said:

I have not questioned that Putin has nothing but evil intentions. I just laugh at your insistence that he's Trump's his good-time buddy, and that he managed to steer an election with a keyboard and mouse.

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Lmao you start off by admitting that there is a Trump-Putin alliance which can be contrasted with your conspiracy theories about an Obama-Castro alliance. Now, you're saying they're not buddies.

Please make up your mind and post something coherent, maybe even consistent?

Hatuey said:

Putin was a threat, until Trump.

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If we're talking strictly, Conservapedia Class Conservatives... Then in fact there has always been this under the radar Far Right Wing admiration for Putin, ESPECIALLY after his governments actions towards homosexuals.

I mean ****, just look at the Conservapedia Preamble:

Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin (Russian: Владимир Владимирович Путин) (born October 7, 1952) was reelected president of the Russian Federation in 2012, after serving as prime minister since May 8, 2008, and previously serving as president since December 31, 1999, the day Boris Yeltsin resigned from the presidency.[1] Putin governs a nation that is rapidly becoming more Christian and more conservative, and his snubbing of liberal Obama in May 2012 suggests that Putin is well aware of how conservative his country is becoming. Putin has been complimentary of Donald Trump, and it appears they will work well together to defeat ISIS. Forbes ranked Putin as the most powerful man in the world as of December 2016, while Obama was ranked #48.

In terms of achievements, Putin has successfully opposed the homosexual agenda and has supported pro-life reforms. He has also stabilized the Russian economy and restored Russia's national pride, largely by politically exploiting the financial windfall of Europe's need for Russian oil and gas. Russians were enthusiastic that he ended the social chaos that followed the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991 and the subsequent pell-mell privatization of the state-owned economy. Many Russians have been mesmerized by the new glitter of Moscow and the restored glamour of St. Petersburg.

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Vladimir Putin - Conservapedia

Jetboogieman said:

If we're talking strictly, Conservapedia Class Conservatives... Then in fact there has always been this under the radar Far Right Wing admiration for Putin, ESPECIALLY after his governments actions towards homosexuals.

I mean ****, just look at the Conservapedia Preamble:

Vladimir Putin - Conservapedia

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Putin riding on a horse bare-chested made them hot and bothered.

Hatuey said:

Lmao you start off by admitting that there is a Trump-Putin alliance which can be contrasted with your conspiracy theories about an Obama-Castro alliance. Now, you're saying they're not buddies.

Please make up your mind and post something coherent, maybe even consistent?

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I was pointing out the hypocrisy of the accusation. Didn't think that required explanation.

Erod said:

I was pointing out the hypocrisy of the accusation. Didn't think that required explanation.

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What hypocrisy in what accusation? Again, you literally started off with the assertion that these are alliances that exist, and that they're comparable to whatever is going on with Obama.

Again, your silly attempt to derail a thread, now you're saying you were pointing out hypocrisy even though you've been pushing the existence of 1 and denying the other for months. Do you understand the meaning of the word hypocrisy or is it like your opinion where you believe it should be taken more seriously than that of a person who has actually been to Russia and doesn't just see it from their backyard?