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With No Warning, House Republicans Vote to Gut Independent Ethics Office

People need to start understanding that they need to vote out incumbents. It is the voters who created the swamp.
 
Nilly said:
Of ethical oversight? Name them.

As to the whole, 'reduce size of govt spiel' they're replacing it with a new office that they will just oversee themselves. So net change to the number of methods of oversight is 0. Oh, and a convenient increase to their power. So no, I don't really understand your point at all.



Too late to read the whole thing now but I don't see anything in that article suggesting that surrendering our ethics will make American politics more effective.
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It is an argument that we have to let the guys play the game, that the players are the ones who produce what we need not the refs, that the refs need to know their place, that they have been out of their place, that we need to put them back in their place (kinda, there is more to it than this).

Whether you agree with the argument or not dont bother trying to claim that it has no merit, that what we have seen done re this thread has no merit upon arrival without the courtesy of an evaluation. You need to argue the point and win first.
 
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Hawkeye10 said:
Don't worry about me, argue the point.
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Alright, I'll calm down here, and keep it to the point & subject matter. Sorry about the digression.

That committee was formed specifically to combat the myriad of House members who were lining their pockets at the People's expense. Specifically, there were many instances of Representatives buying stocks & equities in advance of legislation they were passing which would affect these investments greatly. In essence, they were doing illegal insider trading, but were the only individuals in America immune from prosecution or other consequence.

The GOP fought tooth & nail against the oversight (real surprise there, huh?), but the Dems prevailed. As the news kept coming-out, it was found this type of trading and investment was rife through much - if not most - of the House! The oversight committee was formed to oblige the irate public. It's comprised of private citizens who have not, and cannot, serve in Congress or work for the government. It's essentially, the People's eyes, ears, and voice.

So seriously, we are going to pretend we can't read the writing on the wall? They're laying the ground-work to line their pockets in the coming administration now that they have completer control. I don't see how anyone can believe otherwise. They did it quietly and without debate or fanfare, behind closed doors, hidden from the public's eyes.

Now the real question is: "What are they doing that's not public record?"

Pretty soon, we won't know!

I'm tellin' ya, it's not going to be good. Most every new piece of news that's come-out since election night indicates it's going to be worse than we thought. And some of us already thought it was going to be pretty damn bad.
 
Chomsky said:
Alright, I'll calm down here, and keep it to the point & subject matter. Sorry about the digression.

That committee was formed specifically to combat the myriad of House members who were lining their pockets at the People's expense. Specifically, there were many instances of Representatives buying stocks & equities in advance of legislation they were passing which would affect these investments greatly. In essence, they were doing illegal insider trading, but were the only individuals in America immune from prosecution or other consequence.

The GOP fought tooth & nail against the oversight (real surprise there, huh?), but the Dems prevailed. As the news kept coming-out, it was found this type of trading and investment was rife through much - if not most - of the House! The oversight committee was formed to oblige the irate public. It's comprised of private citizens who have not, and cannot, serve in Congress or work for the government. It's essentially, the People's eyes, ears, and voice.

So seriously, we are going to pretend we can't read the writing on the wall? They're laying the ground-work to line their pockets in the coming administration now that they have completer control. I don't see how anyone can believe otherwise. They did it quietly and without debate or fanfare, behind closed doors, hidden from the public's eyes.

Now the real question is: "What are they doing that's not public record?"

Pretty soon, we won't know!

I'm tellin' ya, it's not going to be good. Most every new piece of news that's come-out since election night indicates it's going to be worse than we thought. And some of us already thought it was going to be pretty damn bad.
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I agreed with that train of thought almost all my life, but I cant argue against reality. RAUCH's argument moved me greatly....I dont feel any great need for a 24/7 data feed on the sausage factory, everything they have made for years has sucked...what good has this fancy newfangled data-feed done me? I just want some good sausage god damnit, if we need to go back to the old ways to Get-Ur-Done then that is AOK with me.
 
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Hawkeye10 said:
Has congress worked better or worse since this program was started in 08?

I say worse.

Did you read JONATHAN RAUCH's piece? Do.

How American Politics Became So Ineffective - The Atlantic


I was a great admirer of the Daley Machine when it worked, which was way better than we have now.

<snip>
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Firstly, there's no cause-effect shown above. That's pretty ridiculous in light of all the other inputs from 2008 ff.

But your quip about the Daley Machine has really given me pause, because I've often felt the same back in the day, until I got out of The Machine and grew in understanding. We're talking about a relatively dictatorial system there, under the Old Man. It's not the stuff of democracy or a Democratic Republic. It worked well for connected wards, and not much - if at all - for those not connected. It put poor black people in highrises that became social prisons, and put-up the Dan Ryan Expressway to separate Bridgeport from Bronzeville. It made Chicago the most segregated city in the country, with a division of haves & have nots. So if this is what you believe is right for America, than you'll be all for it. But I don't want to turn America into 1950's Chicago, no matter how well it worked for *some* of the city.

Sadly though, I believe some of Trump's followers and some in the GOP would love to turn America into 1950's Chicago. Bannon & the Brietbart Alt-Right would be orgasmic!

Lest we forget:


635491672959200006-GetContent-1.jpeg



goodpic1_right-size.jpg
 
reinoe said:
Is the ethics oversight necessary amid a slew of other methods of oversight? Maybe an Obama presidency needs a multitude of oversight boards but Trump obviously doesn't.
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Well, it's the only citizen oversight there is.

But the bigger question is: Why are they getting rid of it?

I'd opine it's paving the way for an administration of graft & corruption.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
I agreed with that train of thought almost all my life, but I cant argue against reality. RAUCH's argument moved me greatly....I dont feel any great need for a 24/7 data feed on the sausage factory, everything they have made for years has sucked...what good has this fancy newfangled data-feed done me? I just want some good sausage god damnit, if we need to go back to the old ways to Get-Ur-Done then that is AOK with me.
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Actually, I didn't say so in my last post, but I'm going to read that article tomorrow. Thanks!

I fully agree that large organizations like corporations & other business entities often do best under a dictatorial regime, with a visionary at the top. Gates, Jobs, Galvin (Motorola) all come to mind. But I was part of the Daley regime, and no longer believe that makes good government. We thought it was good because it worked well for us, but it wasn't representative democracy. Many suffered. And that's what I fear may occur here.
 
Chomsky said:
Firstly, there's no cause-effect shown above. That's pretty ridiculous in light of all the other inputs from 2008 ff.

But your quip about the Daley Machine has really given me pause, because I've often felt the same back in the day, until I got out of The Machine and grew in understanding. We're talking about a relatively dictatorial system there, under the Old Man. It's not the stuff of democracy or a Democratic Republic. It worked well for connected wards, and not much - if at all - for those not connected. It put poor black people in highrises that became social prisons, and put-up the Dan Ryan Expressway to separate Bridgeport from Bronzeville. It made Chicago the most segregated city in the country, with a division of haves & have nots. So if this is what you believe is right for America, than you'll be all for it. But I don't want to turn America into 1950's Chicago, no matter how well it worked for *some* of the city.

Sadly though, I believe some of Trump's followers and some in the GOP would love to turn America into 1950's Chicago. Bannon & the Brietbart Alt-Right would be orgasmic!
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Sing it brother, Lets talk about the failed city planning and housing planning that the genius class blew into down with, were sure that they were right about, and on which we wasted a lot of money. We could add in all the money we have wasted on the education plans that the geniuses were sure were great. And in all the criminal justice reform that turned out to be expensive crapp that ruined so many millions of lives. The geniuses Washington DC reform programs have actually performed par for the course....failure.

It's time to move on.

When what you are doing does not work then do something else.

b3376e_68ac349dabd14c20839242bac3002c45.jpg
 
fmw said:
People need to start understanding that they need to vote out incumbents. It is the voters who created the swamp.
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To a point.

But then the incumbents "incumbentize" themselves! Do you know how many House GOP seat districts are not competitive? Much from redistricting.
 
Chomsky said:
To a point.

But then the incumbents "incumbentize" themselves! Do you know how many House GOP seat districts are not competitive? Much from redistricting.
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Gerrymandering they can do, taking a sandwich from the wrong person maybe not.

We have GOT to learn to prioritize.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Sing it brother, Lets talk about the failed city planning and housing planning that the genius class blew into down with, were sure that they were right about, and on which we wasted a lot of money. We could add in all the money we have wasted on the education plans that the geniuses were sure were great. And in all the criminal justice reform that turned out to be expensive crapp that ruined so many millions of lives. The geniuses Washington DC reform programs have actually performed par for the course....failure.

It's time to move on.

When what you are doing does not work then do something else.

View attachment 67211910
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No argument, there.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
I agreed with that train of thought almost all my life, but I cant argue against reality. RAUCH's argument moved me greatly....I dont feel any great need for a 24/7 data feed on the sausage factory, everything they have made for years has sucked...what good has this fancy newfangled data-feed done me? I just want some good sausage god damnit, if we need to go back to the old ways to Get-Ur-Done then that is AOK with me.
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There is no reason you should have to follow the day by day making of sausages. But don't you think that people that are interested should be able to keep an eye on the production so that they can warn you that you are being robbed? After all, it is the only sausage factory to buy your sausage from. ;)
 
Brewdog said:
I suppose we'll find out when Trump is in office. By the way, Trump isn't yet in office. You do know that, right?
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That's right. We've got two of them now.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
I just spent 15 minutes scouting around....lots of yapping on the internet, not a soul claiming to have knowledge of what is going on beyond assumptions.

I wonder.

Looks to me like the Trump Party is going lean and mean, getting ready to work on a TRUMP schedule, getting ready to get some work done.
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I just heard that it is the first victim of the Republican majority on German public radio.
 
Chomsky said:
WTF?

Thier first post election act, is to remove themselves from oversight?

And Trump's Twitter says this:

"I thought and felt I would win big, easily over the fabled 270 (306). When they canceled fireworks, they knew, and so did I."

Wha???

What about draining the swamp, Donald?
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What swamp? ;)
 
Hawkeye10 said:
It was bureaucracy which was a net negative for the people, which does not fly under the Trump Party so it had to go I think is what happened, but these creeps who pass for journalists these days dont seem to know.
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I admit that corruption would be more a job for criminal investigation agencies. But the one for that job would have to be as independent as the USSC.
 
fmw said:
People need to start understanding that they need to vote out incumbents. It is the voters who created the swamp.
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Unfortunately most voters are ignorant when it comes to politics. And many of the voters who are not ignorant when it comes to politics play the lesser of two evils game. This is why term limits and or mandatory waiting periods between terms and offices need to happen. If most voters were educated when it comes to politics and didn't play the lesser of two evils game then elections would be term limits.
 
https://oce.house.gov/reports/investigations/
A copy of all the people investigated. However, very few of them have been convicted or investigated by the Justice department or been censured or had ANY negative actions taken by their parties against them.

That's what needs to change. Referrals by an independent board that has no teeth and no authority isn't doing any good. Maybe if the Justice department starts filing bribery charges these assholes will stop acting like lobbyists are their private ATM.
 
Nilly said:
One of you will have to explain how the **** ethical oversight is an unnecessary bureaucracy.

This isn't political oversight. It's from a bipartisan committee ensuring ethical standards are heeded. Now, congress can simply stop investigations into their own behaviour midway if they so wish.

I can understand people wanting to remove beurocracy, and I can even understand the want to remove liberal blockers on conservative policies. But can we not all agree that an ethical government is a superior one?
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Could you please fill us in on exactly how this particular bureaucracy operated? How did they gauge ethics, exactly? Please be specific, and give us a step by step accounting. Thanks.
 
Nilly said:
One of you will have to explain how the **** ethical oversight is an unnecessary bureaucracy.

This isn't political oversight. It's from a bipartisan committee ensuring ethical standards are heeded. Now, congress can simply stop investigations into their own behaviour midway if they so wish.

I can understand people wanting to remove beurocracy, and I can even understand the want to remove liberal blockers on conservative policies. But can we not all agree that an ethical government is a superior one?
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I think this is just a taste, a bad taste at that of how Republicans will address ethical issues.
 
Chomsky said:
To a point.

But then the incumbents "incumbentize" themselves! Do you know how many House GOP seat districts are not competitive? Much from redistricting.
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All seats are competitive. It just takes voters to change the occupant.
 
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