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Russian Plane Carrying 92 Crashes in Black Sea; 10 Dead Seen

joG said:
Am i to understand you are sad that the soldiers could not support Assad's mass murder by torture and crimes against humanity?
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Founding a new state in Syria will be a solution ?
 
joG said:
Am i to understand you are sad that the soldiers could not support Assad's mass murder by torture and crimes against humanity?
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huh ? I support mass murder ? please dont respond to me in this thread anymore ,jog
 
joG said:
No. No hard feelings towards Putin or his people. Just that it is war against us that they are waging at many levels and supporting a mass murderer and criminal against humanity that has had thousands tortured over day, weeks or months till dead so that he gets the population back for another go at it. So it is good news every time one of them is dead even ones building up the morale of the troops in the first line. This is not a question of emotions but one of ethics and security.
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Ok. Guess you wish Schindler had been shot in the head...
 
joG said:
....on their way to support mass murderer and torturer get his population back.
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One mass murderer and torturer out of many who have existed and will continue to exist over the years. If you actually think that this band playing would have doomed the Syrian Rebels.....you don't seem to have much in the way of perspective.
 
MaggieD said:
Ok. Guess you wish Schindler had been shot in the head...
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Why? There is the tradeoff factor, but it isn't really relevant here.
 
joG said:
No. No hard feelings towards Putin or his people. Just that it is war against us that they are waging at many levels and supporting a mass murderer and criminal against humanity that has had thousands tortured over day, weeks or months till dead so that he gets the population back for another go at it. So it is good news every time one of them is dead even ones building up the morale of the troops in the first line. This is not a question of emotions but one of ethics and security.
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The only good Russian is a dead Russian? Seriously?

I don't like Putin but that is going well over the line.
 
Tigerace117 said:
The only good Russian is a dead Russian? Seriously?

I don't like Putin but that is going well over the line.
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Why are we ALWAYS so damned right and our enemies SO damned wrong?? And why do we always believe?
 
Tigerace117 said:
One mass murderer and torturer out of many who have existed and will continue to exist over the years. If you actually think that this band playing would have doomed the Syrian Rebels.....you don't seem to have much in the way of perspective.
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The man recently sentenced in Germany for supporting mass murder as a mere bookkeeper wasn't the immediate cause of the dead. He only kept the effort running smoothly. Supporting the activities by helping to keep the troops in killing form is not so dissimilar.
 
MaggieD said:
Why are we ALWAYS so damned right and our enemies SO damned wrong?? And why do we always believe?
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Exactly. We spy on everybody including our own Allies. Remember that NSA stuff? Americans dont care aboutcanything we do in general but man, China dares to attempt to build bases outside China and we flip out. We are all over the globe of course. We have that right. :roll: dont get me started.
 
joG said:
The man recently sentenced in Germany for supporting mass murder as a mere bookkeeper wasn't the immediate cause of the dead. He only kept the effort running smoothly. Supporting the activities by helping to keep the troops in killing form is not so dissimilar.
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Playing music does not significantly affect the battle space in any way shape or form. It helps keep the troops happy. That's it. These were non combatants who died. Gloating about their deaths is bad form at best. Them dying will not stop the Syrian Rebels from slowing being ground down.

It's a simply a tragic loss of human life.
 
Tigerace117 said:
The only good Russian is a dead Russian? Seriously?

I don't like Putin but that is going well over the line.
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If someone declares war on you, then dead enemy soldiers tend to be okay and ones supporting part of the initiatives against you are better dead or interned. You seem to adhere to a dubious ethics, if you would rather they keep the war going.
 
joG said:
If someone declares war on you, then dead enemy soldiers tend to be okay and ones supporting part of the initiatives against you are better dead or interned. You seem to adhere to a dubious ethics, if you would rather they keep the war going.
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I found no news of a Russian declaration of war on the United States or commencement of hostilities. Seems you've been taken in by some of that fake news. One would think that with such major news people would, you know, report on it.

I fail to see how Russian support for Assad is in any way directed at America. We don't have any ports or bases in Syria which were at risk, and the moderate rebels were deeply divide even prior to the air strikes. It certainly doesn't justify gloating about the deaths of a bunch of non combatants.

The deaths of these musicians will not end the war in Syria or even affect it.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Playing music does not significantly affect the battle space in any way shape or form. It helps keep the troops happy. That's it. These were non combatants who died. Gloating about their deaths is bad form at best. Them dying will not stop the Syrian Rebels from slowing being ground down.

It's a simply a tragic loss of human life.
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As I pointed out, emotions and so "gloating " has nothing to do with it. On the other hand, it is either naive, treaturous or hypocritical to be sad of a weakening of our enemies. And to say that the musicians had not value is a remarkable statement considering they were being sent down there at some cost.
 
Tigerace117 said:
I found no news of a Russian declaration of war on the United States or commencement of hostilities. Seems you've been taken in by some of that fake news. One would think that with such major news people would, you know, report on it.

I fail to see how Russian support for Assad is in any way directed at America. We don't have any ports or bases in Syria which were at risk, and the moderate rebels were deeply divide even prior to the air strikes. It certainly doesn't justify gloating about the deaths of a bunch of non combatants.

The deaths of these musicians will not end the war in Syria or even affect it.
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I really sorry that you are so unacquainted with the goings on in the world or acting as though this were the case, that I can only doubt serious interest on your part or alternatively interpret your statements as malevolent.
 
The Tu-154 was manufactured in 1984 and the crash was likely caused by the ageing of the aircraft. The aircraft has been phased out by most companies in recent years but remains integral to the Russian military, which is rather callous about the loss of human lives. Due to budgetary constraints, the Russian military could not afford to replace the ageing aircraft which is now dangerous to fly. Between 1970 and January 2011 there have been 110 serious incidents involving the Tu-154.
 
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joG said:
As I pointed out, emotions and so "gloating " has nothing to do with it. On the other hand, it is either naive, treaturous or hypocritical to be sad of a weakening of our enemies. And to say that the musicians had not value is a remarkable statement considering they were being sent down there at some cost.
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You are clearing gloating over the fact that these people lost their lives.

Are you seriously saying its treasonous to be sad people died in a plane crash a week before Christmas? Seriously? Because that's bull****.

And yes, these people were noncombatants with negliable value or effect on the war.
 
joG said:
I really sorry that you are so unacquainted with the goings on in the world or acting as though this were the case, that I can only doubt serious interest on your part or alternatively interpret your statements as malevolent.
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I certainly can and do interpret your statements as malevolent and against common decency.
 
It's hard to be particularly mournful. Though, I'll concede that I was far more pleased about the death of the ambassador. This is at least actually tragic, but I still can't help but feel the positive of more loss being inflicted on the Russian state.
 
_Sal said:
I agree, the good will shown by those men is astounding and will likely never be seen again although compassion does still exist within us we often justify over riding it, but not always :peace
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I think powerful elites have to work hard to try to dampen/negate our ability for empathy. Most of us probably have more in common with those we are forced to fight with than those who send us to fight them
 
The Tu-154 is an old, very old, airframe and technology that dates back to the Soviet era in the late 60's through the 80's. They are equivalent on technology to the US Boeing 727-100 series which was retired by FAA orders in the mid to late 1980's. Airframe fatigue is major factor in many crashes of planes of this age. The video that showed a light in the sky could have been an engine separating from the tail due to airframe failure, or any number of other things like a missile or engine coming apart in mid-flight - any of which could have brought the plane down.

Very sad story. May the passengers and crew rest in peace, and their surviving families and friends have strength to endure.
 
Beaudreaux said:
The Tu-154 is an old, very old, airframe and technology that dates back to the Soviet era in the late 60's through the 80's. They are equivalent on technology to the US Boeing 727-100 series which was retired by FAA orders in the mid to late 1980's. Airframe fatigue is major factor in many crashes of planes of this age. The video that showed a light in the sky could have been an engine separating from the tail due to airframe failure, or any number of other things like a missile or engine coming apart in mid-flight - any of which could have brought the plane down.

Very sad story. May the passengers and crew rest in peace, and their surviving families and friends have strength to endure.
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I don't know if that can be claimed to be too old and worn out, the c-130 has been in the us military since 1954, and is still used today.
 
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