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Eyeing Trump, Obama takes new action to ban Arctic drilling

Mac77 said:
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That's a very uniformed statement

Consumers don't care how their electricity is produced
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I care.

Mac77 said:
But they do care how much it costs

And right now Americans are paying more than we should because the environmentalists are driving up the cost
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How much I pay at the pump is just one example of a cost.

Mac77 said:
It is true

And you probably don't mind if someone else has to pay for 30% of your solar panels

But the taxpayers care that you are taking money out of their pocket
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I'm a taxpayer and I fully support this subsidy.
 
Mac77 said:
[


That's a very uniformed statement

Consumers don't care how their electricity is produced

But they do care how much it costs

And right now Americans are paying more than we should because the environmentalists are driving up the cost
Click to expand...

The meaning of life to Americans, no? Buy low sell high. What can I put in my pocket so I can buy more ****, conditioned by our society. We start looking at TV ads when we are infants.
 
Cardinal said:
I'm a taxpayer and I fully support this subsidy.
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I'm a taxpayer along with millions of others who don't support it

Maybe we can set up a go fund me account so you can donate solar panels to other people without involving obama and his lapdogs at the IRS
 
Mac77 said:
I'm a taxpayer along with millions of others who don't support it
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Sorry you feel that way.

Mac77 said:
Maybe we can set up a go fund me account so you can donate solar panels to other people without involving obama and his lapdogs at the IRS
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No need, the subsidies appear to be working quite well, as the additional 9.5GW of additional energy to the grid demonstrates.
 
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sookster said:
The meaning of life to Americans, no? Buy low sell high. What can I put in my pocket so I can buy more ****, conditioned by our society. We start looking at TV ads when we are infants.
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We do not always spend wisely

But American style middle class consumerism and abundant cheap fossils fuel has led the world in economic, scientific and social advancement

Without oil the world would be little advanced from the Middle Age
 
Cardinal said:
No need, the subsidies appear to be working quite well, as the additional 9.5GW of additional energy to the grid demonstrates.
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Paid for by higher energy prices and a lower standard of living
 
Born Free said:
Are you kidding me. There is not one green anything such as solar, wind etc that would be built without government subsidies. That includes all the green cars. Our government is using tax payer money to prop up all this green BS. I have no problem with green, but if it can't stand on it's own merits, so be it.
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Oh look, fossil fuels receive billions of dollars in subsidies. I'll bet you hate oil and coal now.

According to the report -- compiled by Oil Change International and U.K.-based think tank Overseas Development Institute -- national subsidies to oil, gas and coal producers amount to $20.5 billion annually in the U.S., with almost all of those being received in the form of tax or royalty breaks. Federal subsidies amount to $17.2 billion annually, while subsidies in a number of oil-, gas- and coal-producing states average $3.3 billion annually.
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US Fossil Fuel Subsidies Increase 'Dramatically' Despite Climate Change Pledge

Gosh, if fossil fuels were so economically superior, why are they receiving all these subsidies?
 
Mac77 said:
Paid for by higher energy prices and a lower standard of living
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Which means you don't actually pump fuel into your own car. Energy prices are lower than they have been in years.
 
I wonder what the long term consequences to the planet are going to be from all this drilling and plundering of it's resources?

We really need to stop being so dependent on oil and find alternatives. Most likely, there will come a day when we have used it all up, probably not in my lifetime, but somewhere down the road.
 
Scrabaholic said:
I wonder what the long term consequences to the planet are going to be from all this drilling and plundering of it's resources?

We really need to stop being so dependent on oil and find alternatives. Most likely, there will come a day when we have used it all up, probably not in my lifetime, but somewhere down the road.
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One major problem with using oil for energy that even science deniers should be able to agree on is that it's a finite source and it's needed for plastics and rubber. I'd sure love to see what modern technology is going to do without plastic and rubber.
 
Cardinal said:
Oh look, fossil fuels receive billions of dollars in subsidies. I'll bet you hate oil and coal now.



US Fossil Fuel Subsidies Increase 'Dramatically' Despite Climate Change Pledge

Gosh, if fossil fuels were so economically superior, why are they receiving all these subsidies?
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The tax code allows companies - any company in any industry - to write off the cost a machinery and other purchases

Oil and coal producers are as much entitled to these tax write-offs as a producer of windmills or electric cars

But being much larger companies supplying much more energy the "subsidies" are much larger
 
Mac77 said:
The tax code allows companies - any company in any industry - to write off the cost a machinery and other purchases

Oil and coal producers are as much entitled to these tax write-offs as a producer of windmills or electric cars

But being much larger companies supplying much more energy the "subsidies" are much larger
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Oh, so now you like subsidies. Okey dokey.
 
Cardinal said:
Oh look, fossil fuels receive billions of dollars in subsidies. I'll bet you hate oil and coal now.

US Fossil Fuel Subsidies Increase 'Dramatically' Despite Climate Change Pledge

Gosh, if fossil fuels were so economically superior, why are they receiving all these subsidies?
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Global green energy subsidies reached $88 billion last year for a fraction of a fraction of the energy provided by oil and gas. I would be fine providing green subsidies equal to the $/BTU-produced rate of oil and gas.
 
Cardinal said:
Oh, so now you like subsidies. Okey dokey.
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I am indifferent to the twists and turns of the tax code

If you ask me I would have a single flat tax rate for every person with no deductions for any reason

And the same for corporations

What I don't like are lying academics who mislead other liberals by writing phony reports that misrepresent the facts
 
jmotivator said:
Global green energy subsidies reached $88 billion last year for a fraction of a fraction of the energy provided by oil and gas. I would be fine providing green subsidies equal to the $/BTU-produced rate of oil and gas.
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Good. If it really is receiving that much in subsidies then it means we've been taking the issue seriously. Just out of curiosity, what's your source?
 
Mac77 said:
Thanks to fracking and DRILL, BABY DRILL!
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Fracking and shale oil, and to a lesser extent, drilling, yes.

As a matter of fact, we COULD "drill" -- which is to say, increase production -- ourselves out of this mess of high gas prices.
 
Cardinal said:
That actually has more to do with Saudi Arabia creating a glut.
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The Saudi are trying to keep the price down to discourage more production in the US

It is the fossil fuel companies in America that deserve credit for the low prices at the pump
 
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Mac77 said:
I am indifferent to the twists and turns of the tax code

If you ask me I would have a single flat tax rate for every person with no deductions for any reason

And the same for corporations

What I don't like are lying academics who mislead other liberals by writing phony reports that misrepresent the facts
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Wow, that really is some epic backing off you're doing now that it's been pointed out to you that your precious fossil fuels receive subsidies.
 
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