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Dem Tim Kaine wants WAR

Chillfolks

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...fa6a08-b726-11e6-959c-172c82123976_story.html

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Kaine pressures Senate colleagues, Trump for authorized war against Islamic State





In his first floor speech since he and Hillary Clinton lost the election, Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.) revived one of his signature issues Wednesday: urging Congress to authorize military force against the Islamic State terrorist group.

Since Congress declared war against the 9/11 attackers, he said, Presidents George W. Bush and Obama expanded the definition to justify using military force in 14 nations — and set a dangerous precedent for President-elect Donald Trump.

He called lawmakers’ unwillingness to vote on new conflicts in Syria, Turkey, Yemen and other countries the “height of public immorality” and disrespectful to the troops.


I generally think Kaine is a loone and his antics during this election only reinforce that view, but even s blind squirrel finds a nut. On this issue I find myself agreeing with Kaine.

Should congress officially declare war? Will democrats who face a tough road on 2018 rally behind Kaine and take an official stand on a potentially unfavorable action, or continue to be spineless and offer Trump the same blank check given to Obama and Bush. How will republicans act? Do you think Kaine would be as vocal on this if Hillary had won?
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...fa6a08-b726-11e6-959c-172c82123976_story.html




I generally think Kaine is a loone and his antics during this election only reinforce that view, but even s blind squirrel finds a nut. On this issue I find myself agreeing with Kaine.

Should congress officially declare war? Will democrats who face a tough road on 2018 rally behind Kaine and take an official stand on a potentially unfavorable action, or continue to be spineless and offer Trump the same blank check given to Obama and Bush. How will republicans act? Do you think Kaine would be as vocal on this if Hillary had won?

The horror. :roll:
 
is Kaine also for wartime tax rates?

also, will our noblemen be leading the troops into battle? i'd like to see that custom return.
 
Interesting question. I don't know how Congress would declare war on an organization rather than a nation. It can be done, I have no doubt. I'm not certain what Kaine wants. I'd like to know more.

All that aside I very much support following the Constitution which gives Congress the responsibility of declaring war - not the President. At least it seems Kaine is trying to do it the right way. That's important.

Yeah, I think Kaine and Hillary would have jumped on the war wagon rather quickly. Hillary was/is big on supporting war.
 
is Kaine also for wartime tax rates?

also, will our noblemen be leading the troops into battle? i'd like to see that custom return.

Bravo! Bravo! My sentiments exactly.
 
here's another wartime custom i'd like to see return :

339390.jpg
 
Doubt it has anything to do with wartime tax rates.

One I think Kaine is trying to do the right thing in his opinion.

Two it's politics. This gives the democrats the ability to say they are a check to Trump and him going loco and staring a war over a small hand meme.

Three I don't think Hillary or Kaine would of been quick to want an official deceleration war, because that has some restrictions attached. They would have preferred the leeway the current set up offers in starting the next conflict.
 
here's another wartime custom i'd like to see return :

View attachment 67210577

To what end? If there was a shortage of something (gasoline, rubber, silk, copper, flour, milk etc.), as there were in both world wars, then I'm sure that rationing would return. But, if there is no shortage, why ration? To impose pain on people simply because a war is also being waged?
 
Interesting question. I don't know how Congress would declare war on an organization rather than a nation. It can be done, I have no doubt. I'm not certain what Kaine wants. I'd like to know more.

All that aside I very much support following the Constitution which gives Congress the responsibility of declaring war - not the President. At least it seems Kaine is trying to do it the right way. That's important.

Yeah, I think Kaine and Hillary would have jumped on the war wagon rather quickly. Hillary was/is big on supporting war.

Kaine is preparing for his 2018 reelection being from the state of VA and its number of military personnel.

He was a poor choice for VP and a disaster as DuNCe chief in the 2010 census remap elections.

With 25 DEM Senators up for reelection in 2018 out of 33 total, McConnell may shove this vote up the DEMs asses.

Unless McTurtle looks ahead to 2020, when the GOP has a bad Senate map .
 
To what end? If there was a shortage of something (gasoline, rubber, silk, copper, flour, milk etc.), as there were in both world wars, then I'm sure that rationing would return. But, if there is no shortage, why ration? To impose pain on people simply because a war is also being waged?

why are you against shared sacrifice? it was a key part of declared wars during the twentieth century.
 
why are you against shared sacrifice? it was a key part of declared wars during the twentieth century.

As a combat wounded veteran that's family also sacrificed during my deployments and ongoing physical recovery, I'm all for shared sacrifice, as long as that sacrifice is voluntary. I am, have been, and always will be, completely, totally, and immovably against any form of government imposed harm (we can call it sacrifice) to the citizens it's supposed to protect. JMHO.
 
As a combat wounded veteran that's family also sacrificed during my deployments and ongoing physical recovery, I'm all for shared sacrifice, as long as that sacrifice is voluntary. I am, have been, and always will be, completely, totally, and immovably against any form of government imposed harm (we can call it sacrifice) to the citizens it's supposed to protect. JMHO.

thank you for your service.

it's my opinion that we would choose our wars more carefully if the general public wasn't insulated so thoroughly against most of the consequences. i see no reason that the average citizen shouldn't have to at the very least pay more in taxes when his or her nation is at war.
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...fa6a08-b726-11e6-959c-172c82123976_story.html




I generally think Kaine is a loone and his antics during this election only reinforce that view, but even s blind squirrel finds a nut. On this issue I find myself agreeing with Kaine.

Should congress officially declare war? Will democrats who face a tough road on 2018 rally behind Kaine and take an official stand on a potentially unfavorable action, or continue to be spineless and offer Trump the same blank check given to Obama and Bush. How will republicans act? Do you think Kaine would be as vocal on this if Hillary had won?

"Kaine pressures Senate colleagues, Trump for authorized war against Islamic State"

vs

"Dem Tim Kaine wants WAR"

My highly trained detective skills tell me that there may be a subtle, nuanced difference between the thread title and the headline.
 
Last edited:
is Kaine also for wartime tax rates?

also, will our noblemen be leading the troops into battle? i'd like to see that custom return.

There wasn't exactly less wars then though.
 
is Kaine also for wartime tax rates?

also, will our noblemen be leading the troops into battle? i'd like to see that custom return.

He's a democrat so probably.
 
thank you for your service.
It was my honor. And, thank you.

it's my opinion that we would choose our wars more carefully if the general public wasn't insulated so thoroughly against most of the consequences.
I agree. However, unless war comes not just to our shores, but makes it to the heartland as well as our shores, then no there's no real way that the general public could possibly understand the real consequences of war. Rationing is nowhere near the same as having your neighborhood bombed to where your house may not exist, your place of employment is no longer safe to enter, your kid's schools are destroyed, the local grocery store has no food, and who needs gasoline when the roads have ten foot deep holes from incoming artillery strikes - which I know you understand.

There's no way for any civilian in this country, where those that feel they have the hardest lives to live are better off than the majority of the population in the entire world (we are a spoiled rotten populace), much less those that find themselves trying to survive a war zone. Having the government impose artificial hardships on the populace would do nothing but alienate the populace even further against the government. That would accomplish nothing positive, even if it accomplished forcing the government to end a conflict by surrendering, all that would do is embolden our enemies around the world that COULD bring real war to our shores and the heartland. You want the general populace to share in the hardship of war? Reinstate the draft. That'll do it quickly.
i see no reason that the average citizen shouldn't have to at the very least pay more in taxes when his or her nation is at war.
That's a reasonable position. As long as those taxes are also accompanied by commensurate cuts in discretionary spending. Something that those folks in DC never seem to be willing to do.
 
It was my honor. And, thank you.

I agree. However, unless war comes not just to our shores, but makes it to the heartland as well as our shores, then no there's no real way that the general public could possibly understand the real consequences of war. Rationing is nowhere near the same as having your neighborhood bombed to where your house may not exist, your place of employment is no longer safe to enter, your kid's schools are destroyed, the local grocery store has no food, and who needs gasoline when the roads have ten foot deep holes from incoming artillery strikes - which I know you understand.

There's no way for any civilian in this country, where those that feel they have the hardest lives to live are better off than the majority of the population in the entire world (we are a spoiled rotten populace), much less those that find themselves trying to survive a war zone. Having the government impose artificial hardships on the populace would do nothing but alienate the populace even further against the government. That would accomplish nothing positive, even if it accomplished forcing the government to end a conflict by surrendering, all that would do is embolden our enemies around the world that COULD bring real war to our shores and the heartland. You want the general populace to share in the hardship of war? Reinstate the draft. That'll do it quickly. That's a reasonable position. As long as those taxes are also accompanied by commensurate cuts in discretionary spending. Something that those folks in DC never seem to be willing to do.

The bolded line made me think of something. One day during the Iraq war I called a friend and asked what we were going to do that night. His response was "Let's pop some popcorn and watch the war." smh
 
There wasn't exactly less wars then though.

my guess is that the US would be more hesitant to enter new wars if that was the current custom.
 
"Kaine pressures Senate colleagues, Trump for authorized war against Islamic State"

vs

"Dem Tim Kaine wants WAR"

My highly trained detective skills tell me that there may be a subtle, nuanced difference between the thread title and the headline.

Does he not, in fact, want war? Is he calling for peaceful resolution or something? Did I miss a different article where he argued for diplomacy and urged Trump to do the same?
 
It was my honor. And, thank you.

I agree. However, unless war comes not just to our shores, but makes it to the heartland as well as our shores, then no there's no real way that the general public could possibly understand the real consequences of war. Rationing is nowhere near the same as having your neighborhood bombed to where your house may not exist, your place of employment is no longer safe to enter, your kid's schools are destroyed, the local grocery store has no food, and who needs gasoline when the roads have ten foot deep holes from incoming artillery strikes - which I know you understand.

There's no way for any civilian in this country, where those that feel they have the hardest lives to live are better off than the majority of the population in the entire world (we are a spoiled rotten populace), much less those that find themselves trying to survive a war zone. Having the government impose artificial hardships on the populace would do nothing but alienate the populace even further against the government. That would accomplish nothing positive, even if it accomplished forcing the government to end a conflict by surrendering, all that would do is embolden our enemies around the world that COULD bring real war to our shores and the heartland. You want the general populace to share in the hardship of war? Reinstate the draft. That'll do it quickly. That's a reasonable position. As long as those taxes are also accompanied by commensurate cuts in discretionary spending. Something that those folks in DC never seem to be willing to do.

my opinion is that if the average citizen was expected to endure hardship every time we were at war, there would be a lot more pushback when our politicians steered the country into a new one. this would make us choose our involvement in wars much more carefully. i don't extend that to the draft, though, except in the direst of circumstances. we're much better off without that. significant tax increases and rationing would do just fine.
 
Interesting question. I don't know how Congress would declare war on an organization rather than a nation. It can be done, I have no doubt. I'm not certain what Kaine wants. I'd like to know more.

All that aside I very much support following the Constitution which gives Congress the responsibility of declaring war - not the President. At least it seems Kaine is trying to do it the right way. That's important.

Yeah, I think Kaine and Hillary would have jumped on the war wagon rather quickly. Hillary was/is big on supporting war.

The same way it authorized war on drugs or against terror.

Oh...wait. Those were authorizations to use force of some form whether local law enforcement, government entities or the military - not declarations of war. I guess then they'll do what they've done since Granada...let the POTUS use the War Powers Act to his limited means and then authorize the extended use of military force and "pretend" we're a nation at war while using defense and intelligence resources nearly at will like they've done for the last 30+ years. :shrug:
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...fa6a08-b726-11e6-959c-172c82123976_story.html




I generally think Kaine is a loone and his antics during this election only reinforce that view, but even s blind squirrel finds a nut. On this issue I find myself agreeing with Kaine.

Should congress officially declare war? Will democrats who face a tough road on 2018 rally behind Kaine and take an official stand on a potentially unfavorable action, or continue to be spineless and offer Trump the same blank check given to Obama and Bush. How will republicans act? Do you think Kaine would be as vocal on this if Hillary had won?

First one has to figure out who they are going to fight and why. I don't think our govt has a good handle on that.
 
is Kaine also for wartime tax rates?

also, will our noblemen be leading the troops into battle? i'd like to see that custom return.

I would "follow" him into combat.
 
Kaine is preparing for his 2018 reelection being from the state of VA and its number of military personnel.

He was a poor choice for VP and a disaster as DuNCe chief in the 2010 census remap elections.

With 25 DEM Senators up for reelection in 2018 out of 33 total, McConnell may shove this vote up the DEMs asses.

Unless McTurtle looks ahead to 2020, when the GOP has a bad Senate map .

It sounds like a real good plan but they might just vote to go to war. Don't underestimate stupid when it comes to the Senate.
 
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