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Trump to Announce Carrier Plant Will Keep Jobs in U.S

Moderate Right said:
We don't get anywhere because you have a mental block on the subject. You totally discount the fact that over 1000 jobs stayed in the country. Instead of ALL jobs leaving the country we saved over 1000 of them. Your solution is just to say the heck with it, go ahead and let all of the jobs leave the country. And, this isn't just about Carrier, it is what Obama has been doing for eight years now and even presidents before him. Trump is saying let's stop the bleeding instead of accepting the fact that we are all going to die. People voted him in because they were tired of both the Democrats and the Republicans just sitting back and letting it happen. Liberals just want to say let the jobs leave and force Walmart and McDonalds to pay the $24 per hour and Republicans just want to say this is business and the free market and trickle down economics. Both sides are idiots.
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Stop using the McDonalds and Walmart line, we both know they're already on their way out. You're celebrating about less than half of the Carrier jobs staying as "Trump's big solution to all of our problems", it isn't. What Trump did is poorly managed trickle down economics. If it didn't stop this trend before why would it stop it now?

Mac77 said:
I want everything in America

Including production
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Then you should be militantly in favor of heavy education funding.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Stop using the McDonalds and Walmart line, we both know they're already on their way out. You're celebrating about less than half of the Carrier jobs staying as "Trump's big solution to all of our problems", it isn't. What Trump did is poorly managed trickle down economics. If it didn't stop this trend before why would it stop it now?



Then you should be militantly in favor of heavy education funding.
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Did you forget that Trump isn't even president yet? Obama has been sitting on his hands for eight years now. Trump hasn't even gotten started yet. He doesn't take office until January 20th.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
That's incorrect. They're hybrid. They use robots and automation operated by cheap Mexican labor. What is it you conservatives always point out? If we force them to pay American workers a living wage they'll just replace them with robots, third world labor, or both. You're not going to be able to bring the jobs back. The ones that are coming back are heavily, heavily automated and require very few workers. It's a pure fantasy world you're living in.

How are we going to get those jobs to stay in America when Trump is paying companies to send most of their jobs to Mexico?
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Trump has not even been sworn in and he has already accomplished something Obama couldn't do

Cities and states have been giving tax brakes to companies for years to induce them to stay or relocate there

With a republican congress led by president trump it will be possible to reduce corporate taxes and regulation

Along with tariffs should they decide to leave anyway

It's going to be a looooooooong four years for the lib trump haters
 
Moderate Right said:
Did you forget that Trump isn't even president yet? Obama has been sitting on his hands for eight years now. Trump hasn't even gotten started yet. He doesn't take office until January 20th.
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So your "big solution" is to cut the corporate tax rate to zero and hope that's enough to get them all back and stop automation?

Mac77 said:
Trump has not even been sworn in and he has already accomplished something Obama couldn't do


Cities and states have been giving tax brakes to companies for years to induce them to stay or relocate there


With a republican congress led by president trump it will be possible to reduce corporate taxes and regulation


Along with tariffs should they decide to leave anyway


It's going to be a looooooooong four years for the lib trump haters
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Cool story, kid.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
So your "big solution" is to cut the corporate tax rate to zero and hope that's enough to get them all back and stop automation?



Cool story, kid.
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And your solution is to guarantee every American a job with a livable wage paid for by whom? Have you thought about your lean? No Libertarian would ever want that much govt. control.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
So your "big solution" is to cut the corporate tax rate to zero and hope that's enough to get them all back and stop automation?



Cool story, kid.
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That's just being ridiculous. Please prove to me that either Trump or Republicans in general want to cut the corporate tax rate to zero. That's not even being honest in saying that. How do you expect to have an honest debate if you are not honest yourself? Trump has talked about other things in addition to cutting corporation tax rates but, again, you aren't being honest in your debating. Your solution is to just let the jobs leave. What kind of a solution is that?
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Stop using the McDonalds and Walmart line, we both know they're already on their way out. You're celebrating about less than half of the Carrier jobs staying as "Trump's big solution to all of our problems", it isn't. What Trump did is poorly managed trickle down economics. If it didn't stop this trend before why would it stop it now?



Then you should be militantly in favor of heavy education funding.
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We already have heavy education funding

But in terms of results it's being misspent
 
Conservative said:
And your solution is to guarantee every American a job with a livable wage paid for by whom? Have you thought about your lean? No Libertarian would ever want that much govt. control.
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I think libs are looking forward to robots taking the jobs so they can go on welfare and work on their poetry
 
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RabidAlpaca said:
So you live in a world where there will always be enough jobs for people who want them
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Are you saying we have out of the ordinary unemployment in reality?
and thus we should continue to tie people's very survival to their ability to find a job?
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I already informed you that we pay people at 0-20%, $20K+/year, and 20-40% +13K/year (total 45K average income). Tied to survival appears to be either: 1. a lie 2. an old habit 3. you don't know, you're just writing stream of consciousness. Please revise your incorrect liberal propaganda, if you want to appear less trump-like.
The government will be paying the corporation millions of dollars to offshore MOST of their jobs instead of all of it. Is that really your position?
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When I state a position you can quote it.
The government should give any amount of money to corporations as ransom to save any amount of jobs? This was not a good deal for the American taxpayer and it set a public and horrible precedent for corporations to shake down the government.
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Indiana made the choice via/its elected representatives. That you believe your whim is above that, is absurd and juvenile. That you believe the federal government should stomp on states rights, is typical.
 
Mac77 said:
I think libs are looking forward to robots taking the jobs so they can go on welfare and work on their poetry
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Yeah, because there aren't any "libs" who have real jobs and careers! :roll:
 
Mac77 said:
Trump has not even been sworn in and he has already accomplished something Obama couldn't do

Cities and states have been giving tax brakes to companies for years to induce them to stay or relocate there

With a republican congress led by president trump it will be possible to reduce corporate taxes and regulation

Along with tariffs should they decide to leave anyway

It's going to be a looooooooong four years for the lib trump haters
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You should be honest here. Trump/Pence 'saved' roughly 1,000 manufacturing jobs. Since the recession bottomed manufacturing employment has increased by about 800,000 jobs or so.

latest_numbers_CES3000000001_2009_2016_all_period_M11_data.gif

We will see what happens over the longer term, after the massive tax cuts add about $600 billion per year to the deficit and debt, on top of existing deficits.
 
Mach said:
Are you saying we have out of the ordinary unemployment in reality? I already informed you that we pay people at 0-20%, $20K+/year, and 20-40% +13K/year (total 45K average income). Tied to survival appears to be either: 1. a lie 2. an old habit 3. you don't know, you're just writing stream of consciousness. Please revise your incorrect liberal propaganda, if you want to appear less trump-like. When I state a position you can quote it. Indiana made the choice via/its elected representatives. That you believe your whim is above that, is absurd and juvenile. That you believe the federal government should stomp on states rights, is typical.
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You miss the point entirely. It was a BAD deal to lose 1200 jobs and pay $7 million. But you are right it was Pence's deal not Trump's and States can and do give incentives to corporations all the time. I am just wondering why Trump is bragging about such a bad one. He held all the cards and still lost twice as many jobs as he "saved". This is probably why the best deals he made in the past were related to bankruptcy of his companies..
 
Mac77 said:
I think libs are looking forward to robots taking the jobs so they can go on welfare and work on their poetry
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Do you watch "All in the family" a lot?
 
Mach said:
Are you saying we have out of the ordinary unemployment in reality? I already informed you that we pay people at 0-20%, $20K+/year, and 20-40% +13K/year (total 45K average income). Tied to survival appears to be either: 1. a lie 2. an old habit 3. you don't know, you're just writing stream of consciousness. Please revise your incorrect liberal propaganda, if you want to appear less trump-like. When I state a position you can quote it. Indiana made the choice via/its elected representatives. That you believe your whim is above that, is absurd and juvenile. That you believe the federal government should stomp on states rights, is typical.
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TIL anything that a politician does is totally defensible because "the people have made their choice through its elected representatives." This is not above criticism. Handing large sacks to corporations who still are outsourcing most of their jobs is not a sensible solution. How do you see the next 4 years going?

Moderate Right said:
That's just being ridiculous. Please prove to me that either Trump or Republicans in general want to cut the corporate tax rate to zero. That's not even being honest in saying that. How do you expect to have an honest debate if you are not honest yourself? Trump has talked about other things in addition to cutting corporation tax rates but, again, you aren't being honest in your debating. Your solution is to just let the jobs leave. What kind of a solution is that?
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Because that's the only place this can go. You're making the case that the reason we're bleeding jobs is the corporate tax is too high and if Trump can come in and slash enough to be competitive with other countries they'll all decide to come back. We're competing with countries that have virtually no corporate tax and the companies can just exploit cheap labor. You have not in 74 pages explained how giving corporations more money is going to bring back American jobs.
 
JasperL said:
You should be honest here. Trump/Pence 'saved' roughly 1,000 manufacturing jobs. Since the recession bottomed manufacturing employment has increased by about 800,000 jobs or so.

View attachment 67210767

We will see what happens over the longer term, after the massive tax cuts add about $600 billion per year to the deficit and debt, on top of existing deficits.
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Your 800,000 umber is misleading

Jobs have been recovered since the low point of the recession

But those are not new jobs and manufacturing is still below what it was in 2009
 
RabidAlpaca said:
TIL anything that a politician does is totally defensible because "the people have made their choice through its elected representatives." This is not above criticism. Handing large sacks to corporations who still are outsourcing most of their jobs is not a sensible solution. How do you see the next 4 years going?



Because that's the only place this can go. You're making the case that the reason we're bleeding jobs is the corporate tax is too high and if Trump can come in and slash enough to be competitive with other countries they'll all decide to come back. We're competing with countries that have virtually no corporate tax and the companies can just exploit cheap labor. You have not in 74 pages explained how giving corporations more money is going to bring back American jobs.
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Did you already forget that Carrier decided it was in their best interest to stay in the US and pay workers $24 per hour instead of exploiting cheaper labor? I swear, you guys are nothing but a broken record. The exact same thing can be done for many other manufacturers and we can even "entice" the ones who already left to come back by implementing tarrifs. These companies and their employees will both be paying federal taxes instead of the zero they would have been paying by using the liberal mentality of just letting US jobs leave the country. That's beyond stupid. You could care less about US workers having good paying jobs. You are more interested in your liberal talking points and that is exactly how and why Trump was elected president.
 
Mac77 said:
Your 800,000 umber is misleading

Jobs have been recovered since the low point of the recession
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Right, that's exactly what I said - "Since the recession bottomed..."

But those are not new jobs and manufacturing is still below what it was in 2009
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OK, have it your way. From the bottom of the recession, there were 800k additional mfg jobs through roughly the election, now there are 798k. After the deal is complete, 2k Carrier jobs are going away, and 1k isn't additional - they've just been "saved." So what is it that Trump has done that Obama could not? Lose only 2,000 mfg jobs?
 
Moderate Right said:
Did you already forget that Carrier decided it was in their best interest to stay in the US and pay workers $24 per hour instead of exploiting cheaper labor? I swear, you guys are nothing but a broken record. The exact same thing can be done for many other manufacturers and we can even "entice" the ones who already left to come back by implementing tarrifs. These companies and their employees will both be paying federal taxes instead of the zero they would have been paying by using the liberal mentality of just letting US jobs leave the country. That's beyond stupid. You could care less about US workers having good paying jobs. You are more interested in your liberal talking points and that is exactly how and why Trump was elected president.
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Yes, they decided it was in their interest after the taxpayers handed them a large sack of money. They decided to throw us a bone by only outsourcing most of their jobs. A true success story.
 
iguanaman said:
You miss the point entirely. It was a BAD deal to lose 1200 jobs and pay $7 million. But you are right it was Pence's deal not Trump's and States can and do give incentives to corporations all the time. I am just wondering why Trump is bragging about such a bad one. He held all the cards and still lost twice as many jobs as he "saved". This is probably why the best deals he made in the past were related to bankruptcy of his companies..
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One of these days you are going to realize what a fool the left has made out of you. The question is why didn't Obama do something like this and try to negotiate with businesses around the country. I doubt that the leftwing in you will ever admit this was a good deal and there isn't anything Trump can do to gain your support. It is going to be a long four years for you. What a great state, the President of the United States working on behalf of the American worker to save jobs versus doing what Obama has done for 8 years, dictating to American Businesses what they have to do such as implement ACA. It doesn't surprise me that you don't understand leadership at all.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
TIL anything that a politician does is totally defensible because "the people have made their choice through its elected representatives." This is not above criticism. Handing large sacks to corporations who still are outsourcing most of their jobs is not a sensible solution. How do you see the next 4 years going?
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So you retract the "employment tied to survival" rhetoric? So you agree we already provide poverty-level income to those who can't earn it? So you agree that unemployment is not yet at this mythical "omg the sky is falling" level you are fearing and want us to fear?
 
iguanaman said:
You miss the point entirely.
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RabidA unfortunately used absurd claims to back his position...whatever it was, and I didn't miss those, is my point. If they were inappropriate of him to post, that's on him, sorry.
It was a BAD deal to lose 1200 jobs and pay $7 million.
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Was it? I have no idea, that's not my call. High level, it's government cutting taxes for big corporations, that's bad IMO, especially when the countless small ones struggle to earn a fraction of profit the large ones earn...and here's one getting huge government defense contracts. Hell, if there were laws AGAINST it I'd even consider that... I have no idea how that deal rates compared to other government breaks, do any of us really know? On the face, if that's $7M over 10 years, at 1200 workers, that's $583 per year, per worker. That seems pretty cheap to me, what are you measuring it against?
 
JasperL said:
Right, that's exactly what I said - "Since the recession bottomed..."



OK, have it your way. From the bottom of the recession, there were 800k additional mfg jobs through roughly the election, now there are 798k. After the deal is complete, 2k Carrier jobs are going away, and 1k isn't additional - they've just been "saved." So what is it that Trump has done that Obama could not? Lose only 2,000 mfg jobs?
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Obama has had eight years and he never got back to where manufacturing jobs were before the recession

trump has not even taken office yet and he is already in the black

Thats impressive
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Yes, they decided it was in their interest after the taxpayers handed them a large sack of money. They decided to throw us a bone by only outsourcing most of their jobs. A true success story.
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I think you are beginning to understand. Now, let's review.

1. Employees keeping their $24 per hour jobs instead of losing them to another country is a good thing.

2. Employers and employees who pay federal taxes is more than the zero the government would have collected if all of those jobs had moved to another country.
 
Mac77 said:
Obama has had eight years and he never got back to where manufacturing jobs were before the recession

trump has not even taken office yet and he is already in the black

Thats impressive
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On the Carrier deal, he's 2,000 jobs in the hole. Not impressive.

Your attempt to rewrite the rules for Trump is funny but not persuasive.
 
JasperL said:
On the Carrier deal, he's 2,000 jobs in the hole. Not impressive.

Your attempt to rewrite the rules for Trump is funny but not persuasive.
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Before trump got involved 2,000 jobs were lost to mexico

Now 800 of those jobs are not lost after all
 
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