Women consider long-term birth control now that Trump victory looms over reproductiv

Re: Women consider long-term birth control now that Trump victory looms over reproduc

ludin said:

Yea. I know the tantrums is amazing and he hasn't taken office yet.

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I can't compete with this kind of mean-spiritedness. How can you have so little compassion for someone who's struggling with their child's health issues?

Are you capable of putting yourself in someone else's shoes? You people's utter lack of understanding and empathy is sociopathic.

Re: Women consider long-term birth control now that Trump victory looms over reproduc

minnie616 said:

Condoms also have a much higher failure rate than long term birth control.

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So the option is to abort?

Re: Women consider long-term birth control now that Trump victory looms over reproduc

Get free stuff while stuff is free.

Re: Women consider long-term birth control now that Trump victory looms over reproduc

minnie616 said:

Women who are thinking about long term birth control should see their doctor while insurance will still cover it with no co- pay. If the ACA is dismantled the out of pocket up front cost is about $800- $1,000.

From following article:



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...trump-victory-looms-over-reproductive-health/

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Here's an idea; act like a responsible adult and buy your own birth control. Nobody owes women birth control.

Re: Women consider long-term birth control now that Trump victory looms over reproduc

Opopanax said:

I can't compete with this kind of mean-spiritedness. How can you have so little compassion for someone who's struggling with their child's health issues?

Are you capable of putting yourself in someone else's shoes? You people's utter lack of understanding and empathy is sociopathic.

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Not for nothing, but relying on empathy to make your point for you is a fallacious appeal to emotion. Whether or not a counter-argument is mean has nothing to do with the merits of the argument.

Re: Women consider long-term birth control now that Trump victory looms over reproduc

BrewerBob said:

We're all stuck on this rock together. We are going to pay for the bad decisions of others one way or the other, be it emergency room bills, welfare, or incarceration.

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...but why? Why should we subsidize the mistakes of others? Insulating people from the consequences of their own bad decisons isn't going to result in fewer bad decisions. Quite the contrary, in fact.

Re: Women consider long-term birth control now that Trump victory looms over reproduc

Gonzo Rodeo said:

...but why? Why should we subsidize the mistakes of others? Insulating people from the consequences of their own bad decisons isn't going to result in fewer bad decisions. Quite the contrary, in fact.

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Because those consequences hurt us as well. For example areas with higher teen pregnancy/unwanted pregnancy rates also tend to have higher crime rates.

Re: Women consider long-term birth control now that Trump victory looms over reproduc

BrewerBob said:

Because those consequences hurt us as well. For example areas with higher teen pregnancy/unwanted pregnancy rates also tend to have higher crime rates.

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Higher crime rates and higher teen pregnancy rates correlate with higher poverty rates.

If the argument for fewer children born into poverty relies on the fewer children part, that's an entirely new and monstrous argument.

Re: Women consider long-term birth control now that Trump victory looms over reproduc

Gonzo Rodeo said:

Not for nothing, but relying on empathy to make your point for you is a fallacious appeal to emotion. Whether or not a counter-argument is mean has nothing to do with the merits of the argument.

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I was not relying on empathy but rather showing why many women benefit medically from birth control products.
It is estimated that 5 to 10 percent of women have PCOS and some are not aware they have it, since it has multiple syntoms and no one test unless exploratory surgery is done where the doctor can see the multiple cysts on the ovaries with the scope.

PCOS is Polycystic Ovary Syndrome, also known as Stein-Leventhal Syndrome, and is one of the most common hormonal endocrine disorders in women. PCOS has been recognized and diagnosed for seventy-five years. There are many signs and symptoms that a woman may experience. Since PCOS cannot be diagnosed with one test alone and symptoms vary from woman to woman, PCOS has been known as the “Silent Killer”. Early diagnosis of PCOS is important as it has been linked to an increased risk for developing several medical risks including insulin resistance, type 2 diabetes, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, and heart disease.

5-10% of women of childbearing age are affected by PCOS, with less than 50% of women diagnosed. This leaves millions of women undiagnosed. PCOS is responsible for 70% of infertility issues in women who have difficulty ovulating. Post menopausal women can also suffer from PCOS.

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Read more:

http://www.pcosfoundation.org/what-is-pcos

Re: Women consider long-term birth control now that Trump victory looms over reproduc

Opopanax said:

I can't compete with this kind of mean-spiritedness. How can you have so little compassion for someone who's struggling with their child's health issues?

Are you capable of putting yourself in someone else's shoes? You people's utter lack of understanding and empathy is sociopathic.

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Let me know when it happens first.
I deal with reality not made up drama that hasn't occurred.

Yes I don't sympathize or empathize with people over something that hasn't
Happened yet.

I have little energy to spend on appeal to emotion arguments.

Re: Women consider long-term birth control now that Trump victory looms over reproduc

Gonzo Rodeo said:

Without a copay, that means women not using it are paying for it, as well as men who can't even take it.

Are there any other special categories of copay-free treatments you can think of?

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And here is where everyone realized you know nothing about how insurance works.

Re: Women consider long-term birth control now that Trump victory looms over reproduc

minnie616 said:

Elective abortions are not free.( thereputic abortions for rape, incest , risk to the woman's life are covered through Medicaid for the poor)
There is a fee for abortions.
There are abortion funds where individuals and pro choice organizations ( such as pro choice churches ) may donate funds to help cover the costs but they are not free.

From Fund abortion now:

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Abortion are not always necessary, and if they are necessary to save the life of the mother it becomes an emergency. I'm not paying for what someone else elects to do.

Re: Women consider long-term birth control now that Trump victory looms over reproduc

ThoughtEx. said:

And here is where everyone realized you know nothing about how insurance works.

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So you can't think of another special catecory of treatment that doesn't have a copay. Got it.

Re: Women consider long-term birth control now that Trump victory looms over reproduc

minnie616 said:

... but rather showing why many women benefit...

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I'm sure many people benefit from the labors of others. That they benefit is not a reason why they should benefit, however.

Re: Women consider long-term birth control now that Trump victory looms over reproduc

Gonzo Rodeo said:

So you can't think of another special catecory of treatment that doesn't have a copay. Got it.

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Is your problem with the copay?

Or with one premium for both sexes?

Re: Women consider long-term birth control now that Trump victory looms over reproduc

minnie616 said:

It's not free. They pay for health insurance and the health insurance covers the cost with no co- pay.

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And so does men like me that can't even get pregnant. After all, insurance works on the principle that everyone pays into some huge pool of money. The only woman I have any reason to pay for her birth control is my girlfriend. Other women I'm not sleeping with, so I have no reason to consider their possible pregnancy my problem.

Re: Women consider long-term birth control now that Trump victory looms over reproduc

minnie616 said:

Women who are thinking about long term birth control should see their doctor while insurance will still cover it with no co- pay. If the ACA is dismantled the out of pocket up front cost is about $800- $1,000.

From following article:



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...trump-victory-looms-over-reproductive-health/

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Women's rights to control their bodies are not at risk, count on it. The new puppy is not going to do anything there and the GOP cannot.

Re: Women consider long-term birth control now that Trump victory looms over reproduc

Chomsky said:

Is your problem with the copay?

Or with one premium for both sexes?

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My problem is with people who conflate permission with provision.

If birth control suddenly cost people something, like it always had just a few years before, that is not the same as actively denying it to people.

Re: Women consider long-term birth control now that Trump victory looms over reproduc

Gonzo Rodeo said:

So you can't think of another special catecory of treatment that doesn't have a copay. Got it.

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Folic acid for pregnant women is covered.
Iron supplements for children who on low on iron is covered and fluoride for children whose drinking water does not have fluoride in it are also treatments covered with no co pay.

Their health insurance covers those treatments with no co- pay.

Re: Women consider long-term birth control now that Trump victory looms over reproduc

minnie616 said:

Women who are thinking about long term birth control should see their doctor while insurance will still cover it with no co- pay. If the ACA is dismantled the out of pocket up front cost is about $800- $1,000.

From following article:



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...trump-victory-looms-over-reproductive-health/

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When compared to just the cost of giving birth to a child, let alone raising one, $800 seems pretty damn reasonable for a long-term contraceptive.

Re: Women consider long-term birth control now that Trump victory looms over reproduc

Gonzo Rodeo said:

I'm sure many people benefit from the labors of others. That they benefit is not a reason why they should benefit, however.

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I was talking about insurance covering treatment without a co-pay that are medically beneficial.

Re: Women consider long-term birth control now that Trump victory looms over reproduc

molten_dragon said:

When compared to just the cost of giving birth to a child, let alone raising one, $800 seems pretty damn reasonable for a long-term contraceptive.

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Over the long term yes, but a lot of people cannot afford the upfront cost of $800 to $1,000.

IIRC There was a thread on this very forum ( within the last year or so ) that the majority of people had less than $200 in their savings for emergencies.

Re: Women consider long-term birth control now that Trump victory looms over reproduc

apdst said:

Condoms are free.

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Huh?

Re: Women consider long-term birth control now that Trump victory looms over reproduc

minnie616 said:

I was talking about insurance covering treatment without a co-pay that are medically beneficial.

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Right. But nowhere is the argument stating why this should be, beyond someone benefits. Well, yeah, that's true, but it would also be a good argument for why everyone deserves a BMW or why thieves should be able to take what they want without consequence.

Look at the title of the thread. If some women would now choose long term contraception SPECIFICALLY because contraception may have a copay associated with it soon, that is a very good example of people who want free stuff getting their free stuff while it's still free.

All of the copay free stuff in the ACA has to do with prenatal and young child care.... and reproductive options for women. Subsidizing a thing will encourage more of it, and I get encouraging early childhood health by making it as easy as possible... but encouraging people to not have children - which is exactly the argument in play for those who can't afford it - has monstrous overtones that those who crave entitlement never acknowledge.

Re: Women consider long-term birth control now that Trump victory looms over reproduc

Gonzo Rodeo said:

Birth control enjoys a unique position right now as a copay-free treatment, which is doubly weird when considering for the vast majority of women, birth control is an elective thing, which is to say it is not medically necessary like, say, insulin.

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Just thought I would elucidate upon this for you. It's in a special position because reproductive issues are a special position. Unwanted pregnancies and errant children account for a huge economic drain in our society, unlike diabetics. No co-pay means easier access to contraception for low income populations whom tend to have the highest reproductive rates, and in turn child welfare rates. (The reasons for this are a whole 'nother debate.) I realize we are in a cyclical economic situation where we incentivize poor people to have kids so they can get on the government tit, but the way to get off that bandwagon isn't going to look like limiting contraceptive access.

Simply arguing that people should have more personal responsibility is denying the reality that a lot of people don't have personal responsibility, but punishing them with an added co-pay is not going to make them more responsible. It's just going to mean more unwanted children draining the system. We can't afford, as a nation, to live in la la land about this reality by simply touting personal responsibility over and over. We can certainly reform social systems and shift things over time, but you can't just wave a magic wand and expect everyone to get their **** together overnight by eliminating a keystone policy for ideological reasons. It won't work.

Sorry to make it about cold economics but really that's what is behind such policies. Contraception is indeed elective for the simple reason we can't force people to take it (that would be a throwback to eugenics), but making it easier to get increases compliance greatly.

It's also incredibly ironic to see some known pro-lifers enter this thread and say, "Don't worry, abortion will still be available" as a response to contraceptive co-pay. Abortion has never been primary birth control and never will be -- it's a pointless argument, yet it shows how flimsy their pro-life beliefs are.