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Voter fraud suspect arrested in Des Moines

JasperL said:
Right, because only Democrats engage in any "voter fraud" that no one can detect above the trivial because they're so crafty and devious! Good point!
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Standard answer. It happens.
 
Deuce said:
The purpose of an ID isn't to establish any Of that. Drivers licenses don't prove voter eligibility either.
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DL's, and other state issued photo IDs, do provide a unique (exclusive?) name and address combination. The idea that voter registration is somehow disconnected from casting a vote is absurd.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
DL's, and other state issued photo IDs, do provide a unique (exclusive?) name and address combination. The idea that voter registration is somehow disconnected from casting a vote is absurd.
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Good thing I made no such claim
 
JasperL said:
No, the purpose of an ID is to identify you as you. Period. That's it! And the way the laws are drafted, there is no need to have a current address on that ID - passports work!

Preventing multiple voting in multiple places is the role of voter registration, not ID. You're assigning a role to voter ID that simply is not consistent with what we ask ID to do in our system of voting, which is as a way to identify someone as that person, period. We don't ask ID to prove address, residency, citizenship, not even age.



They can do that with one ID, certainly a passport (accepted everywhere AFAIK for voting) works for that. And if they vote by mail, they don't need ID at all....
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The idea that voter registration would (should?) require different ID (proof of name/address combination) than voting is absurd.
 
Deuce said:
Good thing I made no such claim
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JasperL did and you gave it a like and a supporting reply. Use of a valid, state issued, photo ID both to register and to vote would make it very difficult to accomplish in person voter fraud by multiple voting. Allowing the use of variable identity documents, specially those that lack an address are useless to prevent multiple voting.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
DL's, and other state issued photo IDs, do provide a unique (exclusive?) name and address combination. The idea that voter registration is somehow disconnected from casting a vote is absurd.
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But that address doesn't have to be current, and a passport which is accepted for voting don't have any address at all. And a DL is often issued to a felon who cannot vote and to non-citizens.

Registration is central to voting - it says you've been determined to be an eligible voter in that district for that election. ID tells the poll worker you are that person who registered, nothing more. What you and others are arguing is ID is taking the place of registration to prove eligibility - that's false.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The idea that voter registration would (should?) require different ID (proof of name/address combination) than voting is absurd.
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You're not addressing my comments at all - just repeating your assertions, and ignoring reality, what the voting laws and ID requirements actually do.

Again, passports are acceptable voting ID but have no address on them at all..... You keep ignoring that. They're accepted because they prove ID, which is the ONLY thing we ask of ID at the polls. Maybe you think that should change, that ID should basically prove what you've already demonstrated with registration, but it's not how the laws work anywhere that I know of. ID is for ID - period. Registration takes care of whether you're eligible, a citizen, in the right district, not a felon, etc.
 
JasperL said:
Same with a gun permit or driver's license. Legal residents can get both.



Well, the point was a student ID has no address - neither does a passport. So I guess address isn't important after all!



First of all, you quoted me then ignored every word that you quoted. Do those cases demonstrate that a student ID wouldn't work, or that a paycheck stub wouldn't work?

If you want to cite those cases, I'll pay attention to them, but in all or almost all of those cases, a photo ID wouldn't have done a damn thing to prevent those cases of 'voter fraud.'



First of all, we've been talking about photo IDs and mail in ballots don't require ANY ID AT ALL, so you're doing what you guys always do which is when you can't justify the strict photo ID laws, shift the goal posts to something else where photo ID laws don't apply.

Second, there will be roughly 150 million votes cast this year, so there will always be 'voter fraud.' The question is what kind of laws are needed to provide an adequate level of assurance that we still have good elections at a reasonable cost and with an acceptable downside. It's a trade-off and saying "SEE THERE IS TOO FRAUD!!!" isn't actually a coherent argument against any specific policy. If we want to be very secure, we'll have scanners like at customs and trained TSA or equivalent agents to check IDs at the thousands of poll locations instead of volunteer old people who wouldn't know a fake ID from a real one. So why don't we invest $billions and treat our polls like the border?
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Fact is voter fraud happens. They require something with a signature.
In fact just did it here.

Nothing you said negates anything.
 
JasperL said:
You're not addressing my comments at all - just repeating your assertions, and ignoring reality, what the voting laws and ID requirements actually do.

Again, passports are acceptable voting ID but have no address on them at all..... You keep ignoring that. They're accepted because they prove ID, which is the ONLY thing we ask of ID at the polls. Maybe you think that should change, that ID should basically prove what you've already demonstrated with registration, but it's not how the laws work anywhere that I know of. ID is for ID - period. Registration takes care of whether you're eligible, a citizen, in the right district, not a felon, etc.
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Yes they require you to prove who you are to vote.
Pretty simple.

This is because voter fraud happens. It takes legal votes away.
 
ludin said:
Yes they require you to prove who you are to vote.
Pretty simple.
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Right and the debate is what evidence is required. I am missing your point entirely. All you're doing is repeating points not actually at issue here.

This is because voter fraud happens. It takes legal votes away.
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Again, of course it does. And.....? So should we all get chips implanted under our skin that have our biometric markers read by special scanners before we vote? Why not? Voter fraud happens!! Should we have U.S. Customs style checkpoints at the polls manned by trained agents at all of the thousands of voting locations? Voter fraud happens!!!
 
JasperL said:
A passport simply does NOT have your current address anywhere on it.

And yes, it has name and birthdate and a picture and BD, but so do many student IDs, and even those without birth dates identify the person with a picture. Why is that not sufficient proof that Joe Student is Joe Student for purposes of voting?
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Just saying that ive never seen a student Id that had anything but a picture and a name on it.
 
SocialD said:
Just saying that ive never seen a student Id that had anything but a picture and a name on it.
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Admittedly I went to college a while ago, but mine had my name, birthday and photo, and student ID number. But it doesn't matter because all an ID is supposed to do is verify ID - not address, BD, citizenship, eligibility for voting, etc. So, again, why is a student ID not sufficient to demonstrate Joe Student is Joe Student? It's got his name and photo.
 
JasperL said:
Admittedly I went to college a while ago, but mine had my name, birthday and photo, and student ID number. But it doesn't matter because all an ID is supposed to do is verify ID - not address, BD, citizenship, eligibility for voting, etc. So, again, why is a student ID not sufficient to demonstrate Joe Student is Joe Student? It's got his name and photo.
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How do you know joe alleged student didn't go over his friend jill worker at the college and say hey make me a student id?. I knew people who did this when I was in college. yes that has been awhile but still..
Say you go to the poll with your Joe Student school ID card. and suppose there are 3 Joe Students on the voting roll. how do they know which one, if any, of those joe students that you are?

States have excluded student ids (this was stated in at least two states that I'm aware of ) because government doesn't control the issuance of the student ids and therefore cannot verify validity.
 
SocialD said:
How do you know joe alleged student didn't go over his friend jill worker at the college and say hey make me a student id?. I knew people who did this when I was in college. yes that has been awhile but still..
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If there is any evidence kids are getting fake IDs to vote, then that's a good point, but I doubt it's happened a single time, actually. And why can't Joe Worker go to his girlfriend at the DMV and do the same thing? Or get some kid to make a fake DL, like they make fake student IDs? And the point really is that kind of thing takes a lot of effort, and you've committed a likely felony, or at least could be expelled from school, so that person can cast ONE extra vote per fake ID. There simply is no incentive to do that given the roughly 0.00000001% chance or so that one vote will make the difference. Who risks jail for that kind of crappy payoff?

Say you go to the poll with your Joe Student school ID card. and suppose there are 3 Joe Students on the voting roll. how do they know which one, if any, of those joe students that you are?
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Same way they deal with that in big cities - each Joe Student has REGISTERED with a particular name AND address. But your ID does not have to have the address on it because AFAIK EVERYWHERE accepts passports, so again ID is for ID, not address, age, eligibility, etc.

States have excluded student ids (this was stated in at least two states that I'm aware of ) because government doesn't control the issuance of the student ids and therefore cannot verify validity.
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Of course that is the excuse given, but it's again GOP states starting with a conclusion - only state issued photo ID is acceptable - then working from there. What's missing is the rationale backed by some semblance of evidence for only accepting state issued photo ID, such as some evidence based reason to suspect that any particular college is haphazard about to whom or how they issue student IDs.
 
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