Pentagon demands return of cash bonuses paid to California soldiers for going to war

"[FONT=&quot]The Pentagon is seeking to recover decade-old reenlistment bonuses paid to thousands of California Army National Guard soldiers to go fight in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Los Angeles Times reported Saturday.[/FONT]

​

[FONT=&quot]The paper reported that nearly 10,000 soldiers, many of whom risked their lives during multiple combat tours, have been ordered to repay the cash bonuses after audits revealed widespread overpayments by California Guard officials under pressure to meet enlistment targets at the height of the wars 10 years ago."

But soldiers say the military is reneging on old agreements and imposing severe financial hardship on those whose only mistake was to accept the bonuses, which amounted to $15,000 or more.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Army asked wounded Iraq veteran and former Army captain Christopher Van Meter, 42, to repay a $25,000 reenlistment bonus it said he was ineligible to receive. He was also asked to repay $21,000 in student loan repayments."

Pentagon recovers cash bonuses paid to California soldiers for going to war a decade ago | Fox News

I wonder who will have to pay back the billions Sen. Clinton lost?[/FONT]

Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

That's just unacceptable. especially considering this: Audit reveals Army's trillion-dollar accounting gaffes - CNNPolitics.com

Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

This is so ****ing stupid. If the government cant get their **** together to pay people right they CAN NOT figure it out 10 years later and do a claw-back.

90 days is my limit, maybe a year in extreme cases.

Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

Patrickt said:

"[FONT="]The Pentagon is seeking to recover decade-old reenlistment bonuses paid to thousands of California Army National Guard soldiers to go fight in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Los Angeles Times reported Saturday. The paper reported that nearly 10,000 soldiers, many of whom risked their lives during multiple combat tours, have been ordered to repay the cash bonuses after audits revealed widespread overpayments by California Guard officials under pressure to meet enlistment targets at the height of the wars 10 years ago." I wonder who will have to pay back the billions Sen. Clinton lost?[/FONT]

Click to expand...

So why are you dragging Sen Clinton into yet another BushII debacle???

This is all on Shrub and his henchmen. They loved to crow about the high retention rate of those serving in Iraq/Afghanistan and there were questioned raised on the level and largess in those bribes. These bribes were astonishingly high and paid upfront BEFORE any real verification of eligibility. The Captain, at the very least, should have known he didn't qualify.

These weren't 'overpayments' they were fraudulent payments. We who served in my day knew any 'overpayment' a soldier accepted was still subject to review and repayment... ask anyone who got too much in a casual pay.

There should be a STATE agency set-up to negotiate with the DoD on the soldier's behalf as STATE officials were guilty of fraud.

But every soldier should know the military DEFENDS democracy- it doesn't PRACTICE it... eace

Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

notquiteright said:

So why are you dragging Sen Clinton into yet another BushII debacle??

Click to expand...

Why are you bringing Bush up? This is the National Guard so it's on the state of California. This isn't a Bush thing and it isn't a Regular Army thing.

Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

Patrickt said:

"[FONT="]The Pentagon is seeking to recover decade-old reenlistment bonuses paid to thousands of California Army National Guard soldiers to go fight in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Los Angeles Times reported Saturday.[/FONT][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arimo][CENTER][FONT=inherit][/FONT][/CENTER]
[/FONT][/COLOR]
[FONT="]The paper reported that nearly 10,000 soldiers, many of whom risked their lives during multiple combat tours, have been ordered to repay the cash bonuses after audits revealed widespread overpayments by California Guard officials under pressure to meet enlistment targets at the height of the wars 10 years ago."

But soldiers say the military is reneging on old agreements and imposing severe financial hardship on those whose only mistake was to accept the bonuses, which amounted to $15,000 or more.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]The Army asked wounded Iraq veteran and former Army captain Christopher Van Meter, 42, to repay a $25,000 reenlistment bonus it said he was ineligible to receive. He was also asked to repay $21,000 in student loan repayments."

Pentagon recovers cash bonuses paid to California soldiers for going to war a decade ago | Fox News

I wonder who will have to pay back the billions Sen. Clinton lost?[/FONT]

Click to expand...

I understand the gvmt has a right to correct mistakes. The question is how long do we have?

If someone should know they are not entitled to a payment, I'd arbitrarily pick three years as a claw back timeframe. If someone would have no IDEA they weren't entitled, then gvmt personnel should be fired for those kinds of atrocious mistakes, and the gvmt shouldn't be able to claw back the money. That's just me.

Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

MaggieD said:

I understand the gvmt has a right to correct mistakes. The question is how long do we have?

If someone should know they are not entitled to a payment, I'd arbitrarily pick three years as a claw back timeframe. If someone would have no IDEA they weren't entitled, then gvmt personnel should be fired for those kinds of atrocious mistakes, and the gvmt shouldn't be able to claw back the money. That's just me.

Click to expand...

Perhaps using the IRS standard?? Regardless, this should be written off.
They did nothing wrong, they served their country. Are they also going after the estates of those Soldiers that received the bonus and died?

Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

Hawkeye10 said:

This is so ****ing stupid. If the government cant get their **** together to pay people right they CAN NOT figure it out 10 years later and do a claw-back. 90 days is my limit, maybe a year in extreme cases.

Click to expand...

You didn't read the article did you? It WAS figured out 2 years after the BUSH bozo bandwagon left office, there was a report confirming the ineligible bonuses in 2010. Did you serve in the Military? There is no time limit on fraud, and improperly receiving gubmint monies. If you read the article it does report the process of reclaiming the fraudulently paid bonuses has been going on for years. Kinda sucks but that is the way the military works.

Back then 'the government' wasn't worried about keeping their **** together but sagging enlistment numbers and were paying all manner of historically high bribes to get anyone in. (recruiting first time enlistees and first time re-enlistees was piss poor until record bonuses were offered.) Problem was the big bonuses were restricted but recruiters were in dire straits getting warm bodies for the road side bomb finders and bent the rules.

Like I said i think the STATE has a duty to help negotiate with the DoD, but the rules in the military are quite clear on overpayments... eace

Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

No, simply no. The government should not simply be able to get its money back. It's no one fault but their own that they can't do accounting for ****. The government needs to pay for their mistakes like everyone else.

Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

notquiteright said:

You didn't read the article did you? It WAS figured out 2 years after the BUSH bozo bandwagon left office, there was a report confirming the ineligible bonuses in 2010. Did you serve in the Military? There is no time limit on fraud, and improperly receiving gubmint monies. If you read the article it does report the process of reclaiming the fraudulently paid bonuses has been going on for years. Kinda sucks but that is the way the military works.

Back then 'the government' wasn't worried about keeping their **** together but sagging enlistment numbers and were paying all manner of historically high bribes to get anyone in. (recruiting first time enlistees and first time re-enlistees was piss poor until record bonuses were offered.) Problem was the big bonuses were restricted but recruiters were in dire straits getting warm bodies for the road side bomb finders and bent the rules.

Like I said i think the STATE has a duty to help negotiate with the DoD, but the rules in the military are quite clear on overpayments... eace

Click to expand...

Then go after the recruiters that lied.

Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

Fishking said:

Why are you bringing Bush up? This is the National Guard so it's on the state of California. This isn't a Bush thing and it isn't a Regular Army thing.

Click to expand...

His war- he owns it, certainly not Sen Clinton so why did the OP bring her in? (Are you going to ask him that as Sen Clinton doesn't represent the State of California?

But if you want to bring a STATE level PUB into this AHHHNOLD was the Governator during the debacle in the desert... shouldn't the OP have pointed at him instead?

Or are both of you practicing highly partisan politics.

BushII created the mess and his DoD never ahhh 'noticed' the fraud even as reports of HUGE bonuses surfaced (the neo-cons could care less about how much money was spent, they were knee deep in the **** and running out of warm bodies so yeah it is the DoD's job to oversee those who extend the king's shilling... (The STATE military forces- largely paid for by the NATIONAL defense dept- was FEDERALIZED to serve overseas- California didn't decide to plant the seeds of democracy in a desert on it's own)

thanks for playing... eace

Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

JANFU said:

Then go after the recruiters that lied.

Click to expand...

You didn't read the article- they did put some recruiters in prison.

But the rules in the military are very simple (painfully simple at times) any and all monies you receive but are not entitled to MUST be repaid- or if still on active duty it will be held out of your pay (I'm not sure if they can touch allowances)

The STATE needs to accept some blame and help these soldiers- perhaps a special bill to help pay off the fraudulent bonuses- but as far as the DoD is concerned the soldier is at the bottom of the hill. Remember these troops were federalized for their overseas tours. I wonder if the bonus specifies over seas service to qualify.

Anyway it is the military, not civilian sector... eace

Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

notquiteright said:

You didn't read the article did you? It WAS figured out 2 years after the BUSH bozo bandwagon left office, there was a report confirming the ineligible bonuses in 2010. Did you serve in the Military? There is no time limit on fraud, and improperly receiving gubmint monies. If you read the article it does report the process of reclaiming the fraudulently paid bonuses has been going on for years. Kinda sucks but that is the way the military works.

Back then 'the government' wasn't worried about keeping their **** together but sagging enlistment numbers and were paying all manner of historically high bribes to get anyone in. (recruiting first time enlistees and first time re-enlistees was piss poor until record bonuses were offered.) Problem was the big bonuses were restricted but recruiters were in dire straits getting warm bodies for the road side bomb finders and bent the rules.

Like I said i think the STATE has a duty to help negotiate with the DoD, but the rules in the military are quite clear on overpayments... eace

Click to expand...

Fraud? Fraud is making a claim that is not true, it was always the governments responsibility to know which of the claims get rewarded pay and benies....and the government did not do its job correctly.

Correct?

Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

Disgusting.

The idiocy of the Bush era continues to bite us in the ass. Regardless of when and where, the Pentagon shouldn't be hounding these people.

Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

They consider THIS enlistment fraud? :shock: :

The Times reported that 48-year-old Army sergeant Robert Richmond, who suffered permanent injuries in an Iraq roadside bomb attack, is refusing to repay his $15,000 cash bonus. The Army contends he was ineligible to receive the bonus in 2006 because he had already served 20 years in the Army.

“I signed a contract that I literally risked my life to fulfill,” Richmond told the paper. “We want somebody in the government, anybody, to say this is wrong and we’ll stop going after his money.”

Click to expand...

The man had done 20 years; he paid his dues and was asked to re-enlist! They needed experienced soldiers, so why wouldn't he qualify for a re-enlistment bonus?

Then he gets wounded as a result? If this is an example of "fraud" then the government is doing a serious dis-service to servicemen. :twocents:

Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

Van Basten said:

Disgusting.

The idiocy of the Bush era continues to bite us in the ass. Regardless of when and where, the Pentagon shouldn't be hounding these people.

Click to expand...

Was it government incompetence or was it government immorality, breaking the law to do what it wanted to do?

With the US government lately the answer to that question is rarely obvious.

Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

notquiteright said:

His war- he owns it, certainly not Sen Clinton so why did the OP bring her in? (Are you going to ask him that as Sen Clinton doesn't represent the State of California?

But if you want to bring a STATE level PUB into this AHHHNOLD was the Governator during the debacle in the desert... shouldn't the OP have pointed at him instead?

Or are both of you practicing highly partisan politics.

BushII created the mess and his DoD never ahhh 'noticed' the fraud even as reports of HUGE bonuses surfaced (the neo-cons could care less about how much money was spent, they were knee deep in the **** and running out of warm bodies so yeah it is the DoD's job to oversee those who extend the king's shilling... (The STATE military forces- largely paid for by the NATIONAL defense dept- was FEDERALIZED to serve overseas- California didn't decide to plant the seeds of democracy in a desert on it's own)

thanks for playing... eace

Click to expand...

I think you already called him out for it having nothing to do with Hillary. But, just for you...this has nothing to do with Hillary.

Also, you again tried to blame Bush and it has nothing to do with him or "his DoD" but the state of California.

Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

Captain Adverse said:

They consider THIS enlistment fraud? :shock: :



The man had done 20 years; he paid his dues and was asked to re-enlist! They needed experienced soldiers, so why wouldn't he qualify for a re-enlistment bonus?

Then he gets wounded as a result? If this is an example of "fraud" then the government is doing a serious dis-service to servicemen. :twocents:

Click to expand...

We were supposed to get "respite leave" and they didn't give it to us when we got back from Iraq. This meant they owed us pay to cover the days that they didn't give us. They screwed it up so bad it took 4 years and they had to pass laws in Congress before we got our pay. I am so glad I am retired. Nobody screws over soldiers as much as the Pentagon.

Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

There are two morals of this story. First, to fight wanton wars you need to, at best, resort to imprudent practices; at worst, resort to nefarious ones. Second, to fund the federal government under a regime of massive tax cuts to corporations and rockefellers and legal tax evasion you need to glean whatever you can from the small man.

Thanks Bush.

Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

Van Basten said:

Disgusting.

The idiocy of the Bush era continues to bite us in the ass. Regardless of when and where, the Pentagon shouldn't be hounding these people.

Click to expand...

Presidents do not write overpayment policies.

Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

Gaztopian said:

There are two morals of this story. First, to fight wanton wars you need to, at best, resort to imprudent practices; at worst, resort to nefarious ones. Second, to fund the federal government under a regime of massive tax cuts to corporations and rockefellers and legal tax evasion you need to glean whatever you can from the small man.

Thanks Bush.

Click to expand...

Reenlistment glitches happen all the time and it has nothing to do with Obama, Bush, or anyone else in the oval office. It happened to me at my 14 year mark where I knew they gave me more than I was entitled to under the policy that was in place. I reenlisted at my 12 year mark and was entitled to 1/3 of the overall 6 year bonus because the Navy did not pay bonuses past the 14 year mark at that time. I received another installment on the anniversary of reenlistment at my 15 year mark and I knew it was wrong. I tried to give the check back to disbursing and they were laughing at me. I requested Captain's Mast with the disbursing officer, and the Command Career Counselor being present..... and was granted the mast. The disbursing officer and CCC looked pretty foolish trying to explain to the C.O. why they didn't listen me.

You would not believe the paperwork I had to fill out at the legal office on base afterwards with signed affidavits saying that I turned in the money. The ship had all the legal paperwork put into my service jacket for protection later on, Sure enough....they came after me in my 18th year onboard the USS Inchon when I extended for 2 years to meet the requirement of fleet reserve. (retirement) The Personnel Officer onboard the Inchon to put the argument to rest for me after showing him the paperwork on my last enlistment. Never heard another word about it after that.

This was during the Clinton era, and I doubt seriously that Slick Willy had anything to do with it.

Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

RetiredUSN said:

Reenlistment glitches happen all the time and it has nothing to do with Obama, Bush, or anyone else in the oval office. It happened to me at my 14 year mark where I knew they gave me more than I was entitled to under the policy that was in place. I reenlisted at my 12 year mark and was entitled to 1/3 of the overall 6 year bonus because the Navy did not pay bonuses past the 14 year mark at that time. I received another installment on the anniversary of reenlistment at my 15 year mark and I knew it was wrong. I tried to give the check back to disbursing and they were laughing at me. I requested Captain's Mast with the disbursing officer, and the Command Career Counselor being present..... and was granted the mast. The disbursing officer and CCC looked pretty foolish trying to explain to the C.O. why they didn't listen me.

You would not believe the paperwork I had to fill out at the legal office on base afterwards with signed affidavits saying that I turned in the money. The ship had all the legal paperwork put into my service jacket for protection later on, Sure enough....they came after me in my 18th year onboard the USS Inchon when I extended for 2 years to meet the requirement of fleet reserve. (retirement) The Personnel Officer onboard the Inchon to put the argument to rest for me after showing him the paperwork on my last enlistment. Never heard another word about it after that.

This was during the Clinton era, and I doubt seriously that Slick Willy had anything to do with it.

Click to expand...

I'm sure such glitches happen incidentally, but in this case, it's clear that they were overpaying in order to meet enlistment goals at the height of the wars.

Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

Gaztopian said:

I'm sure such glitches happen incidentally, but in this case, it's clear that they were overpaying in order to meet enlistment goals at the height of the wars.

Click to expand...

No.........they happen almost daily. My son in law is a Senior Chief and had one of his bonuses screwed up by the Navy. I had kids work for me who reenlisted and had their own problems because check were made in installments instead of lump sum and vice versa. I had kids that supposedly received overpayments in their housing allowances due to living a few hundred feet away from some imaginary geographical line. They had to pay it all back and it about ruined their young families. I have seen that crap almost every day in my 20 years, and still hear it from the young active duty kid I speak with. The Navy/military routinely screws up bonuses, pay, allowances, and other entitlements.

It is routine....period.

It has nothing to do with wars, or presidents.

The DOD, as with all other departments of the federal government, is a large, bloated, incompetent, mess!

Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

Military Routinely Screws Up Pay:

Everyone is acting like this is a surprise, but it happens every single day in the military.

When Your Pay Is Wrong | Military.com

Surviving a Military Paycheck Error - Where to Get Help

Do Not Spend Military Pay Errors And Overpayments

Overpaid while in military collecting 7 years later

Even Congress Had to intervene because of the incompetence of the DOD:

https://www.congress.gov/bill/111th-congress/house-bill/2771


It goes on every single day folks with almost every type of pay and allowances.

Re: Government screws up...soldiers pay

Hawkeye10 said:

Fraud? Fraud is making a claim that is not true, it was always the governments responsibility to know which of the claims get rewarded pay and benies....and the government did not do its job correctly. Correct?

Click to expand...

Not Keyrect, again I guess you didn't serve. The Gubmint did keep track and that is why the soldiers have to repay the student loans and some of the bonuses.

Ignorance of the law and or military regs is ZERO excuse for receiving monies you don't qualify for.

I don't want any soldier punished for taking money they weren't entitled to but they have to repay it. I think the State should help and like some student loan Gubmint repayment plans 20 bucks a month for the rest of a soldiers life is 5 by 5 with me... eace