Dems turn on ObamaCare amid premium hikes, Bill Clinton laments ‘crazy system’[W:81]

Mr Person said:

No, definitely not "Nuff".

Doing what the conservatives stupidly desire would simply result in a return to the system which everyone agreed was completely broken - well, that is, until the conservatives decided to attack everything Obama did in order to spite him - so that too would be a "crazy system."




The simple reality is that a triangular health care market in which information is maximally opaque such that consumers cannot realistically shop (and also generally cannot shop for the most expensive care because it's emergency care, and they're in no shape to be surfing the web), and prices are determined by ad hoc negotiations between insurers and individual HCPs. It's an utter failure. There's no fix that can make that outdated, bloated, and wasteful system work.

Single-payer seems to be the only way to make sure everybody can get reasonable health care. The rich, of course, can always still go to boutique providers if that's their desire.

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RetiredUSN said:

So by your words..... having the government controlling the healthcare system will be the utopia?

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Mr Person said:

Could you include the two above quotes in the response, but this time, highlight the part where I said it would be "utopia"? No, you cannot, because I did not.

What I did say is that the old system was broken. The Obamacare system is still broken. And the only systems that don't seem to be completely broken are single-payer systems in developed countries. We have by far the most expensive system and it produces worse results and covers far less people. Continuing that is insanity.

Single-payer is no miraculous utopia, but it's still better than what we've come up with.

Pray don't twist my words again.










(You know..your posts usually aren't that disengenuous.... what gives?)

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RetiredUSN said:

So by your words..... having the government controlling the healthcare system will be the utopia?

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Mr Person said:

Could you include the two above quotes in the response, but this time, highlight the part where I said it would be "utopia"? No, you cannot, because I did not.

What I did say is that the old system was broken. The Obamacare system is still broken. And the only systems that don't seem to be completely broken are single-payer systems in developed countries. We have by far the most expensive system and it produces worse results and covers far less people. Continuing that is insanity. Continuing it because of some vague sense of "freedoms" and disdain for government, for the sake of the disdain alone, is insanity squared.

Single-payer is no miraculous utopia, but it's still better than what we've come up with.

Pray don't twist my words again.










(You know..your posts usually aren't that disengenuous.... what gives?)

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Cardinal said:

I imagine that with the advent of single payer your current insurance company would change their current plans or offer new ones you might want to take advantage of.

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apdst said:

Or, the government will put them all out of business.

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Cardinal said:

Your mention of "utopia" is apt, seeing as it's conservatives who made the utopian fallacy by claiming that if the ppaca didn't create a utopia then it was by default a nightmare. No, the ppaca didn't solve everything. There were problems it didn't foresee. Big surprise. It did, however, address several glaring problems with the state of health care at the time which necessitated reform in the first place.

The ppaca was a half measure and I said back then it wasn't enough. Unfortunately the only way we'll be able to test that theory is to wait for another filibuster-proof Democratic government to try getting single payer off the ground (presuming they have the will to do so in the first place, which is a HUGE if).

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Cardinal said:

Why would they do that?

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Cardinal said:

Time for single payer health care.

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Exquisitor said:

Not being able to pay our premiums is a result of obstructionism, not raising the minimum wage, not getting to work on the highways bill, Obama's filibustered measures.

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Mr Person said:

Could you include the two above quotes in the response, but this time, highlight the part where I said it would be "utopia"? No, you cannot, because I did not.

What I did say is that the old system was broken. The Obamacare system is still broken. And the only systems that don't seem to be completely broken are single-payer systems in developed countries. We have by far the most expensive system and it produces worse results and covers far less people. Continuing that is insanity. Continuing it because of some vague sense of "freedoms" and disdain for government, for the sake of the disdain alone, is insanity squared.

Single-payer is no miraculous utopia, but it's still better than what we've come up with.

Pray don't twist my words again.

(You know..your posts usually aren't that disengenuous.... what gives?)

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Blue_State said:

Can you admit the democrats bold face lied to us when the shoved this down our throats?

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ludin said:

why do you hate your health.

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ludin said:

why do you hate your health.

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apdst said:

It's all about control.

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RetiredUSN said:

Highways systems in disrepair.
Veterans Administration incompetent.
Social Security going under.
IRS acting like a democrat attack force.


Yeah!


Let's go there.

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Roadvirus said:

Ironic, since Democrats created this beast.

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RetiredUSN said:

Highways systems in disrepair.

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RetiredUSN said:

Veterans Administration incompetent.

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RetiredUSN said:

Social Security going under.

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RetiredUSN said:

IRS acting like a democrat attack force.

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Cardinal said:

Thing is, I started going to the doctor more regularly when the ppaca came out because I stopped being afraid that any possibility of a health issue would result in getting dropped and not being able to find a new provider. That's the reality people without employer or group health insurance lived under, and is among the top reasons the ppaca was created in the first place.

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Cardinal said:

Thing is, I started going to the doctor more regularly when the ppaca came out because I stopped being afraid that any possibility of a health issue would result in getting dropped and not being able to find a new provider. That's the reality people without employer or group health insurance lived under, and is among the top reasons the ppaca was created in the first place.

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Mr Person said:

Could you include the two above quotes in the response, but this time, highlight the part where I said it would be "utopia"? No, you cannot, because I did not.

What I did say is that the old system was broken. The Obamacare system is still broken. And the only systems that don't seem to be completely broken are single-payer systems in developed countries. We have by far the most expensive system and it produces worse results and covers far less people. Continuing that is insanity. Continuing it because of some vague sense of "freedoms" and disdain for government, for the sake of the disdain alone, is insanity squared.

Single-payer is no miraculous utopia, but it's still better than what we've come up with.

Pray don't twist my words again.










(You know..your posts usually aren't that disengenuous.... what gives?)

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RetiredUSN said:

Yeah...don't worry about it. We all know how efficient the government is.

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ludin said:

That had nothing to do with what you posted on single payer.
why do you want VA healthcare?

sorry my health and my families health is more important than that.

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Mr Person said:

Both parties have neglected our infrastructure. But one of them keeps slashing government revenue, making it harder to repair any of it.

Another dishonest attack.



Which is clearly the exclusive fault of the Democrats because no Republican appointees or registrants work in the agency, and of course, because the latest problem was reported while Obama was President. Which is also a reason not to have the government provide health care and leave people to fend for themselves?

Another dishonest attack.




Well, (1) no, not for quite a while, and more importantly, (2) it would be in perfect working order if both parties hadn't kept raiding it and instead used Gore's "lock box" idea, starting 30+ years ago....

Like the other things you mention, this complaint isn't a reason to be purely anti-left or anti-government. It's a reason to seek competent government. It has nothing to with the size or anything inherent to governmenthood.




Is this a vague reference to Lois Lerner? The actions of one Cincinnati office means the entire IRS is a Democratic attack force?

Again, dishonest attack.

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American said:

Dems turn on ObamaCare amid premium hikes, Bill Clinton laments ?crazy system? | Fox News


Nuff said.

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Mr Person said:

why do you hate your native language

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Cardinal said:

If you don't want single payer, don't use it.

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Exquisitor said:

Not being able to pay our premiums is a result of obstructionism, not raising the minimum wage, not getting to work on the highways bill, Obama's filibustered measures.

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Mr Person said:

why do you hate your native language

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ludin said:

as usual you can't address the topic.

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ludin said:

why do you hate your health.

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