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South Carolina school shooting: 2 children, 1 teacher wounded

PoS said:
Jesus, another Adam Lanza. My thoughts go out to the victims.
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Another Klebold, another Kip Kinkle, another of many of the same!

This kid was one one a dozen or more....exactly like him.
 
37th school shooting in 2016.:roll:
 
I think social media plays a huge role. Bullying can take place 24 7. Rummors that took days to make the rounds now are tweeted to thousands. Thank god I'm not the goofy teen I was in today's world.
 
Chillfolks said:
I think social media plays a huge role. Bullying can take place 24 7. Rummors that took days to make the rounds now are tweeted to thousands. Thank god I'm not the goofy teen I was in today's world.
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Agreed...social media is nuts. I never thought of myself as a goofy teen, more like a level headed teen.
 
Casper said:
I was stationed there with 2nd AD, did not find it all that bad, training accidents happen, being a soldier can be a dangerous profession. Now if you are talking about a nutjob that was transferred there because his last command wanted to rid themselves of a problem, that can happen anywhere. By the way I never said military posts were any safer than the communities outside the main gate, not sure what your point is there.
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What security force stopped the miltary member mass shooter there? Hint: She was not military.

How the Army Betrayed the Hero of Fort Hood - The Daily Beast
 
The one thing that made a difference here was that this school had trained for this sort of thing.
The teachers locked the school doors and a volunteer fireman took the shooter down to the ground.
They did not say what the volunteer fireman was doing there but he probably saved a number of lives.
Insteading of all huddling behind doors they took action. That fireman is a hero.

As for having teachers armed. I will take one highly trained teacher with a weapon in a school over 30 hysterical teachers with a gun.

We are never 100% safe. But we should always strive for that goal even though it can never be met.
 
What are you doing America? this is insanity. What compels someone to indiscriminately target schoolchildren defies both the good and the bad of human psyche, and somehow, the U.S decided that this is an American thing.

Having read some of the replies in this topic, I can't fathom how anyone could advocate the militarization of schools as a solution to such incidents - is this what people want for what's supposed to be the country's beacons of knowledge and incubators of future citizens? Even if we were to approach such an Orwellian proposal with pragmatism, there's nothing to indicate that it won't backfire and force such incidents to devolve into bloodbaths, not to mention the omnipresent possibility of the deployed armed personnel committing such shootings themselves, thus further exacerbating the phenomenon.
 
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Such a very sad story. He apparently wanted to make an Adam Lanza-type of impact. Killed his father. Thank goodness no other people were killed. Terribly scary for all of those kids and teachers.
 
And he was only a 14-year old boy.
 
This happened two counties over from where I live. One of the teachers who was present at the time is an old friend from childhood. She did her job, herding the children out of the danger area, but she is very shaken up.

My household includes two elementary-school children, so this hits close to home.


We are very gratified that positive action was taken and no one was killed at the school.



We live in a nation of 330 million people, roughly, with a mental health care system that has been dysfunctional since the 1980s. Dangerously ill people slip through the cracks all the time; beds in secure institutions are scarce and it is hard to commit someone. In some cases, families and friends hide the person's mental state from the public and the authorities or simply "don't want to make waves". Given these circumstances, and the emotional turmoil that is common to teens, it is no surprise this sort of thing will happen from time to time.


Disarming the American public is not a viable answer. Not only are there Constitutional issues, there is the fact that there are more than 300 million guns in circulation already, most never registered. Removing even the majority of them would take a draconian police state and house to house searches, and still would not ensure the disarming of criminals and crazies.

Remember Charlie Hebdo, which happened in France amid strict gun control, and the Norway massacres which happened despite strict gun control. America is not the only place where such things happen.


Certain things have been established as fact about these mass shootings and attempted mass shootings:

The shooter typically targets a vulnerable group, commonly in a "gun free zone".

The shooter is typically stopped only by the arrival of armed opposition.


I'll let you do the math.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
What security force stopped the miltary member mass shooter there? Hint: She was not military.

How the Army Betrayed the Hero of Fort Hood - The Daily Beast
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You seem off on some tangent. What in the heck does putting security personnel in schools have to do with the Ft Hood incident, I think they have ZERO to do with each other. So are you against security in the schools or do you prefer to stick with the current method of doing little to nothing and hope for the best?
 
Goshin said:
This happened two counties over from where I live. One of the teachers who was present at the time is an old friend from childhood. She did her job, herding the children out of the danger area, but she is very shaken up.

My household includes two elementary-school children, so this hits close to home.


We are very gratified that positive action was taken and no one was killed at the school.



We live in a nation of 330 million people, roughly, with a mental health care system that has been dysfunctional since the 1980s. Dangerously ill people slip through the cracks all the time; beds in secure institutions are scarce and it is hard to commit someone. In some cases, families and friends hide the person's mental state from the public and the authorities or simply "don't want to make waves". Given these circumstances, and the emotional turmoil that is common to teens, it is no surprise this sort of thing will happen from time to time.


Disarming the American public is not a viable answer. Not only are there Constitutional issues, there is the fact that there are more than 300 million guns in circulation already, most never registered. Removing even the majority of them would take a draconian police state and house to house searches, and still would not ensure the disarming of criminals and crazies.

Remember Charlie Hebdo, which happened in France amid strict gun control, and the Norway massacres which happened despite strict gun control. America is not the only place where such things happen.


Certain things have been established as fact about these mass shootings and attempted mass shootings:

The shooter typically targets a vulnerable group, commonly in a "gun free zone".

The shooter is typically stopped only by the arrival of armed opposition.


I'll let you do the math.
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Well said.

Oh, I must remind you that bringing up the dismal state of mental healthcare in the US is forbidden, just sweep it under the rug and we will just ignore it, why not, what could possible go wrong..................
 
Casper said:
Well said.

Oh, I must remind you that bringing up the dismal state of mental healthcare in the US is forbidden, just sweep it under the rug and we will just ignore it, why not, what could possible go wrong..................
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The whole continuum of care has been undervalued.

The most restrictive settings are by far the most expensive, and states don't provide the funds necessary to keep those up to demand. But on the low-end too, we only treat mental health when the condition hits stage 4. Sometimes we don't even do that. What happens because of that is there's no prevention, there's no community-level treatment, and the only way people can get access to behavioral health services of any kind is often by being sentenced to prison (with judges giving people criminal records just to get them access to care), for families to give up custody of their children, and for kids to be given (essentially) life sentences to state institutions. As a result, instead of having well-adjusted citizens who are taxpayers and contributing to the economy, we're shafting them and dooming them to the worst of outcomes.

That's why federal lawsuits started happening since 1999, arguing that states have violated the Americans with Disabilities Act. It's the only thing even kicking state legislators into gear.

The United States (i.e. all state legislatures) need to view behavioral health like any other health condition. We need services in our communities, we need easy access, and for God's sake, we need mental health parity in our health insurance industry.
 
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Yet another shooting, and yet another discussion of arms control and how armed civilians can stop shootings. We need fewer guns! No, we need more! Fewer! More!

But, guns don't kill people. Crazy people and violent people with guns kill people. Maybe it's not the issue of guns that needs to be addressed, but the numbers of crazy people and violent people on the streets.
 
As in the case of Adam Lanza we have an emotionally disturbed young man who has access to unsecure weapons at home.

Maybe we don't need to blame guns or our mental health system but rather piss poor parenting.
 
Casper said:
Well said.

Oh, I must remind you that bringing up the dismal state of mental healthcare in the US is forbidden, just sweep it under the rug and we will just ignore it, why not, what could possible go wrong..................
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yep it is cheaper to have more people with guns on the street
 
Crosscheck said:
As in the case of Adam Lanza we have an emotionally disturbed young man who has access to unsecure weapons at home.

Maybe we don't need to blame guns or our mental health system but rather piss poor parenting.
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People need to exercise a lot more restraint. Wait for more details to come out. Gun violence conducted by persons with mental illness is, I want to say, between 2-5% of all gun violence in this country.

It's strange to think about, but it's true.
 
Casper said:
You seem off on some tangent. What in the heck does putting security personnel in schools have to do with the Ft Hood incident, I think they have ZERO to do with each other. So are you against security in the schools or do you prefer to stick with the current method of doing little to nothing and hope for the best?
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Putting multiple full-time security "agents" in each and every public school is a luxury that few schools can afford. 99.9% of the time these school security nanny folks would have absolutely nothing to do and the vast majority of schools never have a "shooter" choose them as a target. It makes more sense to have existing school staff trained and armed as a "just in case" collateral duty - paid perhaps $2/hr ($4K/year?) more for that added "security" certifcaition. That makes much more sense than paying some ex-grunts $20K/year just to stand (sit?) around being totally bored in a dead end job.
 
Fiddytree said:
The whole continuum of care has been undervalued.

The most restrictive settings are by far the most expensive, and states don't provide the funds necessary to keep those up to demand. But on the low-end too, we only treat mental health when the condition hits stage 4. Sometimes we don't even do that. What happens because of that is there's no prevention, there's no community-level treatment, and the only way people can get access to behavioral health services of any kind is often by being sentenced to prison (with judges giving people criminal records just to get them access to care), for families to give up custody of their children, and for kids to be given (essentially) life sentences to state institutions. As a result, instead of having well-adjusted citizens who are taxpayers and contributing to the economy, we're shafting them and dooming them to the worst of outcomes.

That's why federal lawsuits started happening since 1999, arguing that states have violated the Americans with Disabilities Act. It's the only thing even kicking state legislators into gear.

The United States (i.e. all state legislatures) need to view behavioral health like any other health condition. We need services in our communities, we need easy access, and for God's sake, we need mental health parity in our health insurance industry.
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Much of it being a Social issue, we have a long way to go before becoming adults.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Putting multiple full-time security "agents" in each and every public school is a luxury that few schools can afford. 99.9% of the time these school security nanny folks would have absolutely nothing to do and the vast majority of schools never have a "shooter" choose them as a target. It makes more sense to have existing school staff trained and armed as a "just in case" collateral duty - paid perhaps $2/hr ($4K/year?) more for that added "security" certifcaition. That makes much more sense than paying some ex-grunts $20K/year just to stand (sit?) around being totally bored in a dead end job.
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I disagree. Civilians that can or will carry or not as easy to find as some seem to think and they are not exactly qualified to deal with a shooter as someone trained. Afford? Take up a bond, I assure you it will pass.
 
Casper said:
I disagree. Civilians that can or will carry or not as easy to find as some seem to think and they are not exactly qualified to deal with a shooter as someone trained. Afford? Take up a bond, I assure you it will pass.
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Do you really think that the military somehow trains everyone to be an armed security guard?

Is that training not available elsewhere?

It is completely reasonable to train existing school staff to be armed security capable and for that staff to still perform other duties when not needed to stop active shooters (which likely will be 100% of the time).

Schools hold fire drills without the need for any full time "fire drill specialists" - because they instead train existing staff to have those skills. There is no need to add full time "active shooter specialists" to each and very school for an extremely rare, yet remotely possible, active shooter event.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Do you really think that the military somehow trains everyone to be an armed security guard?

Is that training not available elsewhere?

It is completely reasonable to train existing school staff to be armed security capable and for that staff to still perform other duties when not needed to stop active shooters (which likely will be 100% of the time).

Schools hold fire drills without the need for any full time "fire drill specialists" - because they instead train existing staff to have those skills. There is no need to add full time "active shooter specialists" to each and very school for an extremely rare, yet remotely possible, active shooter event.
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Nope they do not and I never claimed anything of the sort. I Suggested they get trained.

As I suggested.

I am not against teacher/staff carrying, but what do you do if no one or only a small number are willing and I said they would not be trained, not to mention not focused on that aspect, they are Teachers not security or LEO's, not a valid solution.
 
Crosscheck said:
The one thing that made a difference here was that this school had trained for this sort of thing.
The teachers locked the school doors and a volunteer fireman took the shooter down to the ground.
They did not say what the volunteer fireman was doing there but he probably saved a number of lives.
Instead of all huddling behind doors they took action. That fireman is a hero.

As for having teachers armed. I will take one highly trained teacher with a weapon in a school over 30 hysterical teachers with a gun.

We are never 100% safe. But we should always strive for that goal even though it can never be met.
Click to expand...

Fully agree. :thumbs::thumbs:

Gaztopian said:
What are you doing America? this is insanity. What compels someone to indiscriminately target schoolchildren defies both the good and the bad of human psyche, and somehow, the U.S decided that this is an American thing.

Having read some of the replies in this topic, I can't fathom how anyone could advocate the militarization of schools as a solution to such incidents - is this what people want for what's supposed to be the country's beacons of knowledge and incubators of future citizens? Even if we were to approach such an Orwellian proposal with pragmatism, there's nothing to indicate that it won't backfire and force such incidents to devolve into bloodbaths, not to mention the omnipresent possibility of the deployed armed personnel committing such shootings themselves, thus further exacerbating the phenomenon.
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What militarization are you talking about? What Orwellian proposal are you talking about? I see neither in this thread!

I'm thinking that you have no experience in these matters and are certainly unqualified to speak to them.

nota bene said:
And he was only a 14-year old boy.
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Hampton teen arrested for soliciting clown to kill teacher | WAVY-TV
 
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