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Gary Johnson: I Would Pardon Edward Snowden

ajn678 said:
There was plenty of information that he gave people that had nothing to do with the government crimes that you are referring to. Its the nature of leaks like this.
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I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make.

Everything he released exposed the government's lawlessness, and everything that was made public was vetted by many journalists including Glenn Greenwald.
 
Thoreau72 said:
I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make.

Everything he released exposed the government's lawlessness, and everything that was made public was vetted by many journalists including Glenn Greenwald.
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This thread is interesting. We are ok with the government breaking the law, violating the constitution, having layers upon layers of us citizens as employees actively breaking the law and working to suppress this information but we are not ok with a whistle blower who broke the law exposing all this corruption?

I feel like we have misplaced anger on this one. Snowden probably didn't do everything right. But if he stayed in America, I feel more laws would have been broken to silence him rather than any change happening at the NSA.
 
Blue_State said:
This thread is interesting. We are ok with the government breaking the law, violating the constitution, having layers upon layers of us citizens as employees actively breaking the law and working to suppress this information but we are not ok with a whistle blower who broke the law exposing all this corruption?

I feel like we have misplaced anger on this one. Snowden probably didn't do everything right. But if he stayed in America, I feel more laws would have been broken to silence him rather than any change happening at the NSA.
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I agree completely.

I do not have any anger, mislplaced or otherwise, though I know many do.

I have well placed pride and joy, knowing that there are good men like Binney, Drake, Snowden and others who put themselves at great risk so that the right thing can be done and government crimes exposed.

My guess is that those who are "angry" over Snowden's actions feel that way because they have been told they "should" feel that way, invoking a faux "patriotism".
 
Thoreau72 said:
I agree completely.

I do not have any anger, mislplaced or otherwise, though I know many do.

I have well placed pride and joy, knowing that there are good men like Binney, Drake, Snowden and others who put themselves at great risk so that the right thing can be done and government crimes exposed.

My guess is that those who are "angry" over Snowden's actions feel that way because they have been told they "should" feel that way, invoking a faux "patriotism".
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Sorry, that wasn't pointed at you.

When it comes to the Snowden episode, I feel like we are blaming a victim (you can pick the type of victim) at some level for what they did to get out of a situation.

I also feel we continue to turn a blind eye to our government trampling rights in the name of safety and security. But they are the government and you shouldn't worry unless you have something to hide.
 
Blue_State said:
Sorry, that wasn't pointed at you.

When it comes to the Snowden episode, I feel like we are blaming a victim (you can pick the type of victim) at some level for what they did to get out of a situation.

I also feel we continue to turn a blind eye to our government trampling rights in the name of safety and security. But they are the government and you shouldn't worry unless you have something to hide.
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No offense taken.

I do hope there is some measure of sarcasm or joking in your last sentence. As long as we are intellectually able to accept government lawlessness without complaint, it's all over but the shouting as far as constitutional governance goes.
 
Thoreau72 said:
I am not ignoring his crimes--I am putting them in perspective, comparing them(it) to the far more serious and far greater number of crimes committed by the government. For whatever reason you are unable to do that. In your astounding hypocrisy, you have deluded yourself into thinking the government has committed no crimes. On the surface, that makes you a domestic enemy of the US Constitution, and an enabler of government lawlessness. Nothing to brag about IMO
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And on the surface, that makes you just like BLM who thinks they can break the law just because someone else did.
 
Renae said:
YES



You can also read the House Committee report on this, it's bi-partisan supported.
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I agree with you, Renae. IMO, unless one doesn't care about the damage Snowden caused to our federal government, unless one lives under a porch and doesn't perceive the terrorist threats of the day (including Snowden's terrorist threats, IMO), Snowden is a criminal for doing a whole lot more than just whistle blowing.
 
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Praxas said:
And on the surface, that makes you just like BLM who thinks they can break the law just because someone else did.
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That seems a silly comparison, but whatever blows your skirt is fine with me.

The truth is that any person can break the law anytime he pleases. That's what makes free in one sense.

But a person breaking the law must be willing to accept the consequences of his actions. Whether a speeding ticket for speeding over the legal limit, or a prison sentence for something more serious. That's life.

As to your point about breaking the law because another has done it, even Mr. Justice Brandeis, dissenting in the Olmstead decision a century ago, points out that government sets the example for citizens. When it breaks the law, a precedent is set for citizens to also break the law. You can find his words of wisdom by googling Olmstead.
 
Thoreau72 said:
That seems a silly comparison, but whatever blows your skirt is fine with me.

The truth is that any person can break the law anytime he pleases. That's what makes free in one sense.

But a person breaking the law must be willing to accept the consequences of his actions. Whether a speeding ticket for speeding over the legal limit, or a prison sentence for something more serious. That's life.

As to your point about breaking the law because another has done it, even Mr. Justice Brandeis, dissenting in the Olmstead decision a century ago, points out that government sets the example for citizens. When it breaks the law, a precedent is set for citizens to also break the law. You can find his words of wisdom by googling Olmstead.
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And the coward Snowden isn't willing to accept the consequences and ran like a little bitch. he's a traitor and can't even stand by his actions like a man. But the snowden ass kissers will still call him their hero.
 
Gary Johnson is a loon.

 
Praxas said:
And the coward Snowden isn't willing to accept the consequences and ran like a little bitch. he's a traitor and can't even stand by his actions like a man. But the snowden ass kissers will still call him their hero.
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I hope you're not suggesting that every time you commit a traffic infraction you call the cops, confess and ask for a ticket? Bet not. ;)

Apparently it's too complicated for you to grasp, but by breaking those petty government rules Snowden served a much greater good in revealing the crimes of government, crimes against all, citizens and allies alike.

By his actions, Snowden demonstrated he has more courage in his little finger than you have in your entire body.
 
Thoreau72 said:
I hope you're not suggesting that every time you commit a traffic infraction you call the cops, confess and ask for a ticket? Bet not. ;)
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No, but when I am caught speeding I don't go on a high speed chase trying to avoid the cops like Snowden ran.

Apparently it's too complicated for you to grasp, but by breaking those petty government rules Snowden served a much greater good in revealing the crimes of government, crimes against all, citizens and allies alike.

By his actions, Snowden demonstrated he has more courage in his little finger than you have in your entire body.
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All Snowden has demonstrated is he is a little bitch and his supporters are fools.
 
Praxas said:
No, but when I am caught speeding I don't go on a high speed chase trying to avoid the cops like Snowden ran.



All Snowden has demonstrated is he is a little bitch and his supporters are fools.
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All you have demonstrated is that you strongly approve of government lawlessness.
 
Thoreau72 said:
All you have demonstrated is that you strongly approve of government lawlessness.
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Nope, I think the government should be held accountable for their actions and I think Snowden should to. You think folks that break the law should get a free pass.
 
Thoreau72 said:
No offense taken.

I do hope there is some measure of sarcasm or joking in your last sentence. As long as we are intellectually able to accept government lawlessness without complaint, it's all over but the shouting as far as constitutional governance goes.
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Absolute sarcasm in the last sentence.
 
I don't really care. Snowden isn't buying a pardon from Johnson. Marc Rich did buy a pardon from President Bill Clinton and Sen. Hillary Clinton.
 
Thoreau72 said:
I am not ignoring his crimes--I am putting them in perspective, comparing them(it) to the far more serious and far greater number of crimes committed by the government. For whatever reason you are unable to do that. In your astounding hypocrisy, you have deluded yourself into thinking the government has committed no crimes. On the surface, that makes you a domestic enemy of the US Constitution, and an enabler of government lawlessness. Nothing to brag about IMO
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No, your partisanship is so intense that you morally equivocate because it fits your need, allows you to write off a glaring moral flaw in your support of a terrible man.
 
Renae said:
No, your partisanship is so intense that you morally equivocate because it fits your need, allows you to write off a glaring moral flaw in your support of a terrible man.
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You're a sore loser Renae, but that's what happens when one chooses to defend lawless government. You have chosen to defend the crazy position that it is OK for the government to violate the Constitution, but it is immoral for a conscientious individual to expose that lawlessness.

Rage on lady. :roll:
 
Thoreau72 said:
That seems a silly comparison, but whatever blows your skirt is fine with me.

The truth is that any person can break the law anytime he pleases. That's what makes free in one sense.

But a person breaking the law must be willing to accept the consequences of his actions. Whether a speeding ticket for speeding over the legal limit, or a prison sentence for something more serious. That's life.

As to your point about breaking the law because another has done it, even Mr. Justice Brandeis, dissenting in the Olmstead decision a century ago, points out that government sets the example for citizens. When it breaks the law, a precedent is set for citizens to also break the law. You can find his words of wisdom by googling Olmstead.
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One of the things i find interesting about the people who are so adament about snowden being punished dont seem to be concerned with anyone in the gov being held accountable for any of their wrong doings.

Im not so much interested in giving snowden a pardon, as i think what he exposed should of given him immunity, which if he had it, he would of never been in the position of needing to seek ayslum.

The tone this sets for anyone in the future thinking of whistle blowing is disturbing. You can look forward to living in exile and the people you exposed facing no consequences.

We can not even be sure they have stopped spying on any of us.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 
trouble13 said:
One of the things i find interesting about the people who are so adament about snowden being punished dont seem to be concerned with anyone in the gov being held accountable for any of their wrong doings.

Im not so much interested in giving snowden a pardon, as i think what he exposed should of given him immunity, which if he had it, he would of never been in the position of needing to seek ayslum.

The tone this sets for anyone in the future thinking of whistle blowing is disturbing. You can look forward to living in exile and the people you exposed facing no consequences.

We can not even be sure they have stopped spying on any of us.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
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They haven't. Obama is Bush on steroids.
 
danarhea said:
They haven't. Obama is Bush on steroids.
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I thought congress said they ended that program. Not that i trust them or would be surprised they did but restarted it under a different name.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 
trouble13 said:
One of the things i find interesting about the people who are so adament about snowden being punished dont seem to be concerned with anyone in the gov being held accountable for any of their wrong doings.

Im not so much interested in giving snowden a pardon, as i think what he exposed should of given him immunity, which if he had it, he would of never been in the position of needing to seek ayslum.

The tone this sets for anyone in the future thinking of whistle blowing is disturbing. You can look forward to living in exile and the people you exposed facing no consequences.

We can not even be sure they have stopped spying on any of us.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
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Yes, you're right. Nothing of substance has changed since Snowden. That is, the offenders are still offending same as before.

The government has offered lip service and apologies, and the complicit media have bought into it, but nothing of substance has been changed. The Fourth Amendment and other constitutional protections are routinely ignored by the government, including the judiciary.
 
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