Voter Fraud in Colorado

There were a lot of allegations coming from North Carolina about the "rampant" voter fraud.

And what do we learn?

Appeal: 16-1468 Doc: 150 Filed: 07/29/2016

UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE FOURTH CIRCUIT ::

NORTH CAROLINA STATE CONFERENCE OF THE NAACP; ROSANELL EATON; EMMANUEL BAPTIST CHURCH; BETHEL A. BAPTIST CHURCH; COVENANT PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH; BARBEE’S CHAPEL MISSIONARY BAPTIST CHURCH, INC.; ARMENTA EATON; CAROLYN COLEMAN; JOCELYN FERGUSON-KELLY; FAITH JACKSON; MARY PERRY, MARIA TERESA UNGER PALMER, Plaintiffs - Appellants, and JOHN DOE 1; JANE DOE 1; JOHN DOE 2; JANE DOE 2; JOHN DOE 3; JANE DOE 3; NEW OXLEY HILL BAPTIST CHURCH; CLINTON TABERNACLE AME ZION CHURCH; BAHEEYAH MADANY, Plaintiffs,

v. PATRICK L. MCCRORY, in his official capacity as Governor of the State of North Carolina; KIM WESTBROOK STRACH, in her official capacity as a member of the State Board of Elections; JOSHUA B. HOWARD, in his official capacity as a member of the State Board of Elections; RHONDA K. AMOROSO, in her official capacity as a member of the State Board of Elections; JOSHUA D. MALCOLM, in his official capacity as a member of the State Board of Elections; PAUL J. FOLEY, in his official capacity as a member of the State Board of Elections; MAJA KRICKER, in her official capacity as a member of the State Board of Elections; JAMES BAKER, in his official capacity as a member of the North Carolina State Board of Elections, Defendants - Appellees

<snip>

"On the one hand, the State has failed to identify even a single individual who has ever been charged with committing in-person voter fraud in North Carolina. See J.A. 6802. "

Let that sink in, connies. Here was every opportunity to show it was happening, as they charged. Yet they failed to find even ONE person.

Where the real fraud comes in, is with absentee ballots, the kind of voting the GOP welcomes with open arms. Absentees vote predominantly GOP.

In fact for some time now, the GOP has made it a campaign to push for more of it.

"Thousands of GOP staff and volunteers knocked on doors in the run-up to the 2014 election and targeted voters with absentee ballot applications and pledge cards. The Republican National Committee grew its email file from 2 million to 12 million addresses during the midterms, began a Facebook “Voter Challenge” that targeted likely voters and pushed absentee ballot requests to voters in droves."

Will Democrats Keep Their Early Voting Advantage in 2016? | TIME

But let's get to more of the Appeals Court ruling:

"On the other, the General Assembly did have evidence of alleged cases of mail-in absentee voter fraud. J.A. 1678, 6802. Notably, the legislature also had evidence that absentee voting was not disproportionately used by African Americans; indeed, whites disproportionately used absentee voting. J.A. 1796-97. The General Assembly then exempted absentee voting from the photo ID requirement. This was so even though members of the General Assembly had proposed amendments to require photo ID for absentee voting, N.C. Gen. Assemb. Proposed Amend. No. A2, H589-AST-50 [v.2] (April 24, 2013), and the bipartisan State Board of Elections11 specifically requested that the General Assembly remedy the potential for mail-in absentee voter fraud and expressed no concern about in-person voter fraud, J.A. 1678. "


http://electionlawblog.org/wp-content/uploads/nc-4th.pdf

Absentee voter fraud? GOP: *chirp chirp*

ocean515 said:

Perhaps it's the ideological blinders you filter things with, or perhaps it's something else that distorts your comprehension of what you read.

I wrote the Brennen Center has an agenda. It exists to promote that agenda.

As a result of it's mission and the effort to promote the agenda that mission represents, it applies SUBJECTIVE analysis to it's studies and includes those subjective results to it's reports. Based solely on the selected information and filters they apply, the results are accurate. So I have not said they fudge their numbers.

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Perhaps there's a very good reason you refused to answer my question.

I'll try again: Puzzle me this: If there are other fraud cases to be found that were successfully prosecuted, beyond what they show -- why aren't the people making these allegations producing them?

Paperview said:

Perhaps there's a very good reason you refused to answer my question.

I'll try again: Puzzle me this: If there are other fraud cases to be found that were successfully prosecuted, beyond what they show -- why aren't the people making these allegations producing them?

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They have produced them. They have successfully prosecuted fraud rings in Wisconsin, and at present, they have reason to believe something is wrong in Colorado.

There are other cases the Brennen Center has side stepped.

Perhaps there is a good reason you chose to accept the Brennen Center as the singular last say on the subject?

ocean515 said:

They have produced them. They have successfully prosecuted fraud rings in Wisconsin, and at present, they have reason to believe something is wrong in Colorado.

There are other cases the Brennen Center has side stepped.

Perhaps there is a good reason you chose to accept the Brennen Center as the singular last say on the subject?

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1. Produce your proof.

2. I've produced Court Cases that studied the matter, with the opposing side that charges voter fraud has every incentive to show it's prosecutions.

Yet....they fail.



"A federal trial court in Wisconsin reviewing that state’s strict photo ID law found “that impersonation fraud — the type of fraud that voter ID is designed to prevent — is extremely rare” and “a truly isolated phenomenon that has not posed a significant threat to the integrity of Wisconsin’s elections.”

I have a feeling I'll be waiting a while before we see proof WI successfully prosecuted fraud rings in Wisconsin

Meanwhile:

Big Deal: WI Republicans Ginned Up Voter Fraud Talk Ahead of Recall, worked with Talk Show Hosts, to Prepare Republican Base for Recounts

Posted on September 14, 2016 11:31 am

Check out this Republican operative suggesting “messaging ‘widespread reports of election fraud’ so we are positively set up for the recount regardless of the final number.” This comes from from the Guardian’s collection of leaked John Doe papers [in this Prosser file]. It shows that all this talk of fraud is all about manipulating Republican public opinion to believe that if Democrats won a close Supreme Court race, and the recall went to a recount ,that the election was stolen by Democratic voter fraud. This cynical “messaging” is sadly validating of what many of us have said. [UPDATE: This wasn’t at the time of the recall but right after the Prosser-Kloppenburg Supreme Court race which was very close and eventually went to a recount.]

ocean515 said:

It's considerably subjective. Have you read their report?

Here is an excerpt, which reveals their agenda.

https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/legacy/The%20Truth%20About%20Voter%20Fraud.pdf

These inflated claims are not harmless. Crying “wolf” when the allegations are unsubstantiated distracts attention from real problems that need real solutions. If we can move beyond the fixation on voter fraud, we will be able to focus on the real changes our elections need, from universal registration all the way down to sufficient parking at the poll site.​

The Brennen Center exists to provide material and content that follows an ideological imperative channeled by it's mission. In this case, their mission is to provide material and content that tries to shut the door on discussion about voter irregularities that have been discovered. Their reports are never specific, and they are mission and agenda driven, and should always be viewed in that manner.

As I wrote before, we will have to wait to see what the investigation reveals in Colorado. The Brennen Centers claims do not dismiss the issue as some "cry wolf" (as the BC puts it) effort.

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i understand you do not like their conclusions. I understand you oppose them politically. I understand their positions upset your allies and their agenda.

I ask you again - what is wrong about their data?

Paperview said:

It isn't. That's why they have to discount the source.

And even the court cases where it was an issue...

• The Fifth Circuit, in an opinion finding that Texas’s strict photo ID law is racially discriminatory, noted that there were “only two convictions for in-person voter impersonation fraud out of 20 million votes cast in the decade” before Texas passed its law.
• In its opinion striking down North Carolina’s omnibus restrictive election law —which included a voter ID requirement — as purposefully racially discriminatory, the Fourth Circuit noted that the state “failed to identify even a single individual who has ever been charged with committing in-person voter fraud in North Carolina.”
• A federal trial court in Wisconsin reviewing that state’s strict photo ID law found “that impersonation fraud — the type of fraud that voter ID is designed to prevent — is extremely rare” and “a truly isolated phenomenon that has not posed a significant threat to the integrity of Wisconsin’s elections.”
• Even the Supreme Court, in its opinion in Crawford upholding Indiana’s voter ID law, noted that the record in the case “contains no evidence of any [in-person voter impersonation] fraud actually occurring in Indiana at any time in its history.” Two of the jurists who weighed in on that case at the time — Republican-appointed former Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens and conservative appellate court Judge Richard Posner — have since announced they regret their votes in favor of the law, with Judge Posner noting that strict photo ID laws are “now widely regarded as a means of voter suppression rather than of fraud prevention.”

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Exactly. Some on the right want to institute laws which suppress voting by restricting ones Constitutional right to vote for their government. Sadly, their blatant political reasons are then exposed when it is found this is a solution in search of a problem that does not exist.

Deuce said:

People have repeatedly told you it's rare. That doesn't mean never.

Surely you believe every vote cast is fraudulent. Right? This is your black and white world, after all.


You guys should learn from the past: the vast majority of these supposed dead votes turn out to not actually be voter fraud. Typically just a minor clerical error involving similar or identical names.

Can't wait for the first mention of voter ID laws...

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Gerrymandering is not rare.

Patrickt said:

"Local officials in Colorado acknowledged "very serious" voter fraud after learning of votes cast in multiple elections under the named of recently-deceased residents.

A local media outlet uncovered the fraud by comparing voting history databases in the state with federal government death records. "Somebody was able to cast a vote that was not theirs to cast," El Paso County Clerk and Recorder Chuck Broerman told CBS4 while discussing what he called a "very serious" pattern of people mailing in ballots on behalf of the dead.


It's not clear how many fraudulent ballots have been submitted in recent years. CBS4 reported that it "found multiple cases" of dead people voting around the state, revelations that have provoked state criminal investigations."
Dead people voting in Colorado | Washington Examiner

Clearly, if people died one year and voted the next year, frequently with mail-in ballots, it's illegal. But, there is no way possible to get a guilty verdict on anyone.

No wonder the Democrats are desperate to get all voting done by mail-in ballots. When they walk in and vote as someone else there is a possible witness. Plus, with mail-in ballots it's so much easier.

A few years ago a man voted for his dead wife and when he was questioned about the vote he said, "I knew how she would vote so I didn't see anything wrong with it."

But, the media supports the Democrat meme that there is no fraud, none, and not only should nothing be done to fight fraud but we must maintain systems that encourage fraud such as motor voter laws, mail in ballots for everyone, and anonymous voting.

Democrats are about as Democratic as those People's Parties are about the people.

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Nothing in either of your links implicates Democrats.

Please try again.

haymarket said:

Exactly. Some on the right want to institute laws which suppress voting by restricting ones Constitutional right to vote for their government. Sadly, their blatant political reasons are then exposed when it is found this is a solution in search of a problem that does not exist.

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Bush's Justice Dept. spend many years investigating actual voter fraud, and even they could not very many cases. Yes, it is exceptionally rare.

The connies who run their tail off about this fail to understand there is a very big reason it's so rare: High risk, low return.

Not many people are motivated such they would risk large fines, prison time and a felony record for the sake of one extra vote, that likely would have very little effect on an election.

What's curious is the GOP seems to care diddly about absentee voting. Well, not all that curious. We know why.

Does the usual diversion attempt (always promoted by rats for some reason) refute the allegation that dead people are voting in Colorado?

Funny how its ALWAYS rats that are so desperate to avoid the discussion of voter fraud or to minimize the instances when they can no longer deny that it 'never' happens.

PeteEU said:

No that is in Red states in the US.. /wave Florida. In the EU, we actually have checks and balances in our elections.. we trust the result.

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Rofl...Florida was verified a million times. Bush won Gore lost. I got it! In Liberal World, voter fraud is legit and legit is voter fraud! Now I get why they are always saying there isn't voter fraud.

Paperview said:

I have a feeling I'll be waiting a while before we see proof WI successfully prosecuted fraud rings in Wisconsin

Meanwhile:

Big Deal: WI Republicans Ginned Up Voter Fraud Talk Ahead of Recall, worked with Talk Show Hosts, to Prepare Republican Base for Recounts

Posted on September 14, 2016 11:31 am

Check out this Republican operative suggesting “messaging ‘widespread reports of election fraud’ so we are positively set up for the recount regardless of the final number.” This comes from from the Guardian’s collection of leaked John Doe papers [in this Prosser file]. It shows that all this talk of fraud is all about manipulating Republican public opinion to believe that if Democrats won a close Supreme Court race, and the recall went to a recount ,that the election was stolen by Democratic voter fraud. This cynical “messaging” is sadly validating of what many of us have said. [UPDATE: This wasn’t at the time of the recall but right after the Prosser-Kloppenburg Supreme Court race which was very close and eventually went to a recount.]

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LOL

I kept getting a server busy signal, so the delay was not of my doing.

Your extreme bias seems to be directing you to miss the point.

CBS2 Investigation Uncovers Votes Being Cast From Grave Year After Year « CBS Los Angeles

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/03/08/wisconsin-ag-charges-five-with-election-fraud-two-from-acorn/

As I've written a couple of times, there are more ways to manipulate elections than just ID issues.

As evidenced in Los Angeles, the history in Wisconsin, and now Colorado, there are issues all voters should be concerned with.

As I've also written, and you want to steer away from, this particular situation in Colorado is not settled, so it remains to be seen what the final outcome will be.

haymarket said:

i understand you do not like their conclusions. I understand you oppose them politically. I understand their positions upset your allies and their agenda.

I ask you again - what is wrong about their data?

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I answered your question.

I understand you don't like it. I understand it goes against your politics. I understand you accept their positions and likely have difficulty with anyone who would question them.

The fact remains, the Brennen Center has a mission to fulfill. Their reports fulfill that ideological mission. Their efforts are subjective, and only focus on voter fraud issues across a very limited spectrum of possibility.

Since you find it difficult to discount the findings of an biased source that falls into your ideological spectrum, I present the following to prove voter fraud does exist.

Voter Fraud in the US: Documented - Discover the Networks

You can't have it both ways.

ocean515 said:

LOL

I kept getting a server busy signal, so the delay was not of my doing.

Your extreme bias seems to be directing you to miss the point.

CBS2 Investigation Uncovers Votes Being Cast From Grave Year After Year « CBS Los Angeles

Wisconsin AG charges five with election fraud, two from ACORN - Hot Air Hot Air

As I've written a couple of times, there are more ways to manipulate elections than just ID issues.

As evidenced in Los Angeles, the history in Wisconsin, and now Colorado, there are issues all voters should be concerned with.

As I've also written, and you want to steer away from, this particular situation in Colorado is not settled, so it remains to be seen what the final outcome will be.

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That is one mighty big fail there, buddy.

Extra LULZ on you citing a 2010 pile of Hotair (which doesn't even prove your case) while poo pooing the NYC Law / Brennnan Center findings as biased.

Paperview said:

That is one mighty big fail there, buddy.

Extra LULZ on you citing Hotair (which doesn't even prove your case) while poo pooing the NYC Law / Brennnan Center findings as biased.

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:failpail:

You didn't even read the contents.

That's why I usually don't waste my time with your stuff.

Carry on.

:fly:

ocean515 said:

:failpail:

You didn't even read the contents.

That's why I usually don't waste my time with your stuff.

Carry on.

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I did read it. You claimed in WI, they have successfully prosecuted fraud rings in Wisconsin.

Your article from 2010 did not show that. It showed charges. That's not proof of successfully prosecuted fraud rings related to voter fraud in WI.

What's even worse is, even if those five people cited had been successfully prosecuted -- which you show no proof of, you apparently don't even know the difference between voter fraud and registration /election fraud. Voter impersonation / voter fraud is the topic being discussed.


ETA: I looked it up.

2 found Falsely Procuring Voter Registration - Guilty.

1 Henderson admitted that he registered to vote at the polls on November 4, 2008, thereby certifying that he was a qualified elector. He also admitted to casting a ballot. At that time, Henderson was on an active period of probation for felony convictions. Guilty <Defendant had begun challenge of felon voter prohibition, but a plea agreement was reached.>

Herbert Gunka
Suzanne Gunka : Charge: Double Voting (Felony Class I) Husband and wife voted by absentee ballot and at the polls. Acquitted.

So three people. Out of millions and millions of votes cast - even using your bellwether, is all you've been able to show. Certainly no "ring."

Furthermore, a more recent case from this year: Shorewood man sentenced to jail for multiple votes in several elections

That dude ^ voted 5 times in one election in the Walker recall, and in another election for governor, and 3 times, plus more. Total of 13 counts of voter fraud.

Did I mention he was GOP / Walker supporter?

ocean515 said:

I answered your question.

I understand you don't like it. I understand it goes against your politics. I understand you accept their positions and likely have difficulty with anyone who would question them.

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AHH!!! Thats cute. You have nothing tho say to refute me so you ape me in slavish imitation. Neat.

The fact remains, the Brennen Center has a mission to fulfill. Their reports fulfill that ideological mission. Their efforts are subjective, and only focus on voter fraud issues across a very limited spectrum of possibility.

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You have no evidence to support such a partisan claim.

ocean515 said:

Voter Fraud in the US: Documented - Discover the Networks

You can't have it both ways.

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Where in this highly opinionated politically tainted opinion piece is there evidence of voter fraud justifying the right wing agenda? I read it and I do not see it.

ttwtt78640 said:

Secret ballot means that nobody should be able know who actually cast any particular ballot.

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That's right. It's something the Democrats ignored when they introduced the Card Check Bill but that's what a secret ballot is all about. It does not mean someone can walk into a polling station on election day and say, "My name is Barack Obama and I live at 2456 Willow Street and I want to vote," and get handed a ballot.

Paperview said:

It's exceedingly rare.
Studies Agree: Impersonation Fraud by Voters Very Rarely Happens

• The Brennan Center’s seminal report on this issue, The Truth About Voter Fraud, found that most reported incidents of voter fraud are actually traceable to other sources, such as clerical errors or bad data matching practices. The report reviewed elections that had been meticulously studied for voter fraud, and found incident rates between 0.00004 percent and 0.0009 percent. Given this tiny incident rate for voter impersonation fraud, it is more likely, the report noted, that an American “will be struck by lightning than that he will impersonate another voter at the polls.”
• A study published by a Columbia University political scientist tracked incidence rates for voter fraud for two years, and found that the rare fraud that was reported generally could be traced to “false claims by the loser of a close race, mischief and administrative or voter error.”
• A comprehensive 2014 study published in The Washington Post found 31 credible instances of impersonation fraud from 2000 to 2014, out of more than 1 billion ballots cast. Even this tiny number is likely inflated, as the study’s author counted not just prosecutions or convictions, but any and all credible claims.
• Two studies done at Arizona State University, one in 2012 and another in 2016, found similarly negligible rates of impersonation fraud. The project found 10 cases of voter impersonation fraud nationwide from 2000-2012. The follow-up study, which looked for fraud specifically in states where politicians have argued that fraud is a pernicious problem, found zero successful prosecutions for impersonation fraud in five states from 2012-2016.

Courts Agree: Fraud by Voters at the Polls is Nearly Non-Existent


Those Who Publicly Argue Voter Fraud is Rampant Have Found Scant Evidence of it When They Go Looking for It


Much more at link: [h=3]Debunking the Voter Fraud Myth [/h]

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Oh come now, that interferes with the rhetoric and takes away much needed "victimhood" from the party of "personal responsibility". Funny how little they are actually "responsible" for.

Fishking said:

Rofl...Florida was verified a million times. Bush won Gore lost. I got it! In Liberal World, voter fraud is legit and legit is voter fraud! Now I get why they are always saying there isn't voter fraud.

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You dont get it.. it should never have happened. The whole system lacks integrity... in Florida it was a Bush supporter who ran the election.. in fact in most disputed elections it is a GOPer that is in charge.. wonder why...

Nate Silver on the effect of voter fraud:


1

So, that explains why Democrats wouldn't want voter ID and Republicans would - whether voter fraud exists or not. Almost all agree that while there are probably cases of it, it's quite rare and small enough to have almost no effect (as compared to the voter ID swings above).

ttwtt78640 said:

Secret ballot means that nobody should be able know who actually cast any particular ballot.

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And who they voted for. Frankly, I'd be shocked if every fraudulent ballot were for Democrats.

Paperview said:

It's exceedingly rare.
Studies Agree: Impersonation Fraud by Voters Very Rarely Happens

• The Brennan Center’s seminal report on this issue, The Truth About Voter Fraud, found that most reported incidents of voter fraud are actually traceable to other sources, such as clerical errors or bad data matching practices. The report reviewed elections that had been meticulously studied for voter fraud, and found incident rates between 0.00004 percent and 0.0009 percent. Given this tiny incident rate for voter impersonation fraud, it is more likely, the report noted, that an American “will be struck by lightning than that he will impersonate another voter at the polls.”
• A study published by a Columbia University political scientist tracked incidence rates for voter fraud for two years, and found that the rare fraud that was reported generally could be traced to “false claims by the loser of a close race, mischief and administrative or voter error.”
• A comprehensive 2014 study published in The Washington Post found 31 credible instances of impersonation fraud from 2000 to 2014, out of more than 1 billion ballots cast. Even this tiny number is likely inflated, as the study’s author counted not just prosecutions or convictions, but any and all credible claims.
• Two studies done at Arizona State University, one in 2012 and another in 2016, found similarly negligible rates of impersonation fraud. The project found 10 cases of voter impersonation fraud nationwide from 2000-2012. The follow-up study, which looked for fraud specifically in states where politicians have argued that fraud is a pernicious problem, found zero successful prosecutions for impersonation fraud in five states from 2012-2016.

Courts Agree: Fraud by Voters at the Polls is Nearly Non-Existent


Those Who Publicly Argue Voter Fraud is Rampant Have Found Scant Evidence of it When They Go Looking for It


Much more at link: [h=3]Debunking the Voter Fraud Myth [/h]

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And, here it goes again. The stale meme. Liberal university swear that voter fraud is rare. Liberal Think Tank swears voter fraud is rare. Liberal media swears voter fraud is rare. And that's supposed to be impressive. President Obama, a man known for his honesty and adherence to the law says it's rare.

And why would people think it's not rare.

We are seeing the liberal judges ramping up decision to enhance voter fraud for this election. We see the DOJ suing states to maintain voter fraud. And, if we look, as the CBS affiliate did, we don't have any trouble finding voter fraud, but the liberal bots stamp their feet and swear there is no voter fraud.

Which laws enhance voter fraud?
Motor voter laws that are designed to register foreign nationals to vote.
Unrestricted absentee ballots which make it easier for people to vote repeatedly under different names.
Anonymous voting. The how you vote is a secret but the person voting should be established as being a living, breathing, U.S. Citizen, over the age of 17. That's why the Democrat administration is suing states which want to insure voters are eligible to vote.
Prohibiting the purging of voter rolls to eliminate voters who have died or moved out of state is another issue that is being fought by the Democrats. If you've moved from New York to Florida why shouldn't you vote in both states? That's what absentee ballots are for.

I wonder why it is that any move, any at all, to make elections honest is resisted fiercely by the Democrats?

Of course, the same lack of logic that leads them to say that also leads them to say that if there is any fraud it has nothing to do with Democrats. I wonder if Democrats are going to have a Melowese Richardson Award for the Democrats who votes the most often for Hillary Clinton?