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Wife of Keith Scott, Charlotte Shooting Victim, Filmed Fatal Encounter With Police

Re: Wife of Keith Scott, Charlotte Shooting Victim, Filmed Fatal Encounter With Polic

trouble13 said:
Would it make a difference to you if 40% of crimes were committed by black males?

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Not when I am discussing the people who shoot police and the size of that population. People committing crimes would not make me fearful. People who have a higher potential of killing me than other segments of the population would. And if you are police officer, that segment is black males.
 
Re: Wife of Keith Scott, Charlotte Shooting Victim, Filmed Fatal Encounter With Polic

roguenuke said:
So you're saying that cops shouldn't intervene when they see a minor crime taking place? Smoking a joint is a minor crime, as is having a gun while smoking a joint ultimately. However, if they knew this person was a felon, a felon in possession of a gun is not so minor of a crime. Now, there is no current information to tell us whether they knew that he was a felon. However, the first two crimes are definitely good enough for the initial encounter, trying to get him out of his car and under arrest, and the possession of the gun is reason enough to have guns drawn while doing this. His failure to obey lawful orders multiple times while armed (assuming that he was, which there is evidence that he was) is what led to his being shot and killed by police officers, not the above crimes. Those in themselves would have just gotten him arrested (although given his history it would have sent him back to prison most likely), but would not have gotten him killed. Again, his failure to obey lawful orders while armed is what got him killed.
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I am very torn on this. On the one hand I can see that if the police saw a gun and the guy refused to follow directions - then the shooting happened. Okay. But then I still come back to the reality that this guy died at the hands of the police and what was the big crime that had to be stopped here? At what point does judgment come into play? And does a persons race impact that judgment?
 
Re: Wife of Keith Scott, Charlotte Shooting Victim, Filmed Fatal Encounter With Polic

haymarket said:
I am very torn on this. On the one hand I can see that if the police saw a gun and the guy refused to follow directions - then the shooting happened. Okay. But then I still come back to the reality that this guy died at the hands of the police and what was the big crime that had to be stopped here? At what point does judgment come into play? And does a persons race impact that judgment?
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the point is, in this and almost every other incident where the police took a life, the perp refused to follow the lawful commands of law enforcement officers

had they, they would be alive today

ok, now how does that apply to the black community? respect and obey government authority figures. do what they tell you and live. refuse to obey the LEO commands and risk dying. for a substantial number of those blacks living in low socio-economic conditions, they do not 'get' that simple - even obvious - reality
 
Re: Wife of Keith Scott, Charlotte Shooting Victim, Filmed Fatal Encounter With Polic

haymarket said:
I am very torn on this. On the one hand I can see that if the police saw a gun and the guy refused to follow directions - then the shooting happened. Okay. But then I still come back to the reality that this guy died at the hands of the police and what was the big crime that had to be stopped here? At what point does judgment come into play? And does a persons race impact that judgment?
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The big crime was his not obeying lawful police orders in a manner that put police and potentially the public in danger. His backing up, especially if armed (as police say he was and there is evidence to support this) indicates he was looking for a place to find cover in order to likely shoot it out with police. Given his history and the fact that having a weapon and being a felon would put him back behind bars is a good indication that he was not planning on going in quietly without any resistance to the police. He had already been refusing to follow lawful orders to get out of his car and drop his weapon.
 
Re: Wife of Keith Scott, Charlotte Shooting Victim, Filmed Fatal Encounter With Polic

Blue_State said:
Not when I am discussing the people who shoot police and the size of that population. People committing crimes would not make me fearful. People who have a higher potential of killing me than other segments of the population would. And if you are police officer, that segment is black males.
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I dont know what percentage of black males commit crimes but I think it would be expected that the more of them involved in criminal activity the more likely they are to be involved in a police shooting or really any shooting for that matter.

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Re: Wife of Keith Scott, Charlotte Shooting Victim, Filmed Fatal Encounter With Polic

haymarket said:
I am very torn on this. On the one hand I can see that if the police saw a gun and the guy refused to follow directions - then the shooting happened. Okay. But then I still come back to the reality that this guy died at the hands of the police and what was the big crime that had to be stopped here? At what point does judgment come into play? And does a persons race impact that judgment?
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i think a persons demeanor is a bigger factor than their skin color.

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Re: Wife of Keith Scott, Charlotte Shooting Victim, Filmed Fatal Encounter With Polic

trouble13 said:
i think a persons demeanor is a bigger factor than their skin color.

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Do you agree that both can be a factor?
 
Re: Wife of Keith Scott, Charlotte Shooting Victim, Filmed Fatal Encounter With Polic

haymarket said:
Do you agree that both can be a factor?
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Both can be a factor as can skin color be a factor on its own.

The problem comes when people assume that skin color was a factor in anyway simply because that person was shot and killed by a police officer, not because of any facts about the case.
 
Re: Wife of Keith Scott, Charlotte Shooting Victim, Filmed Fatal Encounter With Polic

When is force justified?

There are two defining cases. In Tennessee vs. Garner in 1985, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that an officer cannot use deadly force against a fleeing suspect unless the suspect is a significant threat to the officer or to others.

Four years later, the Supreme Court ruled in Graham vs. Connor that officers who use force must be judged on the totality of circumstances and a standard of “objective reasonableness.”

When are police justified in using deadly force? - LA Times
 
Re: Wife of Keith Scott, Charlotte Shooting Victim, Filmed Fatal Encounter With Polic

CHARLOTTE, NC (FOX 46) - Court documents filed by the wife of Keith Lamont Scott, the man shot and killed by a police officer in Charlotte last week, show a history of domestic violence and abuse.


According to documents filed in April of 2004, Rakeyia Scott filed a motion for a domestic violence protective order against her husband in Mecklenburg County. The motion states that Mr. Scott had assaulted his wife several times. These instances included Mr. Scott stabbing his wife, almost puncturing her lungs and slicing her ear, according to court records.

In 2015, court records from Gaston County show Mrs. Scott filed for a restraining order against her husband. The order states that Mr. Scott had “hit their 8-year-old son” and then kicked and threatened to kill her.

In another section: "he has a 9mm and threatened to use it last night 10/2/2015. He does not have a permit, he is a felon.”

Court records reveal Keith Scott's wife filed restraining order - Story | WJZY
 
Re: Wife of Keith Scott, Charlotte Shooting Victim, Filmed Fatal Encounter With Polic

trouble13 said:
I dont know what percentage of black males commit crimes but I think it would be expected that the more of them involved in criminal activity the more likely they are to be involved in a police shooting or really any shooting for that matter.

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Honestly here are the two stats which led me to my conclusion.
American FactFinder - Results
20,406,091 Black Males in America
321,418,820 People in America

Black Males account for 6.35% of the population.

FBI data shows:
https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2011/officers-feloniously-killed/officers-feloniously-killed
In 2011, 72 officers were killed in the line of duty.

Profile of alleged known assailants
In 2011, 77 alleged offenders were identified in connection with the 72 law enforcement officers feloniously killed. Of those offenders, the following characteristics are known:
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43 of the alleged offenders were white, 29 were black, 2 were American Indian/Alaskan Native, and 1 was Asian/Pacific Islander. The race was not reported for 2 offenders.
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Therefore, 37.66% of the alleged offenders were black. 6.35% of the population accounts for 37.66% of the officers killed on duty. It would heighten my response when encountering them as a police officer.
 
Re: Wife of Keith Scott, Charlotte Shooting Victim, Filmed Fatal Encounter With Polic

roguenuke said:
Both can be a factor as can skin color be a factor on its own.

The problem comes when people assume that skin color was a factor in anyway simply because that person was shot and killed by a police officer, not because of any facts about the case.
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I agree.
 
Re: Wife of Keith Scott, Charlotte Shooting Victim, Filmed Fatal Encounter With Polic

Blue_State said:
Honestly here are the two stats which led me to my conclusion.
American FactFinder - Results
20,406,091 Black Males in America
321,418,820 People in America

Black Males account for 6.35% of the population.

FBI data shows:
https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2011/officers-feloniously-killed/officers-feloniously-killed
In 2011, 72 officers were killed in the line of duty.





Therefore, 37.66% of the alleged offenders were black. 6.35% of the population accounts for 37.66% of the officers killed on duty. It would heighten my response when encountering them as a police officer.
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I get it but if black man are disportionately involved in more crimes i would expect stats to show that too', no?

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Re: Wife of Keith Scott, Charlotte Shooting Victim, Filmed Fatal Encounter With Polic

trouble13 said:
I get it but if black man are k involved in more crimes i would expect stats to show that too', no?

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I am sure some database tracks that.
 
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