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Mass Immigration Costs Government $296 Billion a Year, Depresses Wages

truthatallcost said:
Are average Iraqis somehow responsible for the atrocities that Saddam Hussein committed?

Are average Japanese people responsible for Japan's government attempting to lie and cover up the Fukushima disaster?
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They are on the hook for any financial responsibility the government has to pay forward, or any effort for clean up or restructuring necessary to correct the problem, yes. Would an ordinary citizen be thrown in jail for that? No. And an ordinary citizen would never be thrown in jail for our failed interventionist war either, if it would come to that. But we are responsible for the monies and effort to correct.

I understand that it's all the rage these days to try to remove consequence and responsibility, but the world doesn't work that way. We do share part of the consequences for the actions of our government. We elected them, we cannot be fully excused from repercussion. This will cost money, and we're on the line for it. We have to fix it, we're responsible for that too.
 
Ikari said:
They are on the hook for any financial responsibility the government has to pay forward, or any effort for clean up or restructuring necessary to correct the problem, yes. Would an ordinary citizen be thrown in jail for that? No. And an ordinary citizen would never be thrown in jail for our failed interventionist war either, if it would come to that. But we are responsible for the monies and effort to correct.

I understand that it's all the rage these days to try to remove consequence and responsibility, but the world doesn't work that way. We do share part of the consequences for the actions of our government. We elected them, we cannot be fully excused from repercussion. This will cost money, and we're on the line for it. We have to fix it, we're responsible for that too.
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Again, "we're" responsible for something that 'we' didn't do.

When 3,000 Americans died on 9/11, did you say 'they' (Muslims, Saudis, non-citizens) are responsible? I'd bet that you didn't.
 
truthatallcost said:
Again, "we're" responsible for something that 'we' didn't do.

When 3,000 Americans died on 9/11, did you say 'they' (Muslims, Saudis, non-citizens) are responsible? I'd bet that you didn't.
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I said Afghanistan was responsible. But we are bombing all sorts of citizens because of 9/11. Do they deserve it? Should they be held to the repercussions of others?

The German people had to pay reparations after the war, but their government waged the war. Was that fair?

You want to remove responsibility because there are consequences you don't want to bear, but sorry charlie, this is the real world and you bear the consequence of action. You won't face any legal repercussion for the actions of State leaders, but if the country has to pay for something, you're on the line for that.
 
Kushinator said:
You made a false statement, doubled down with the nonsense using a source that refutes it, and then side step to the statement of "who's paying for it?". I sense a complete lack in basic math and reasoning skills.

The DHS estimates 11.4 million illegal immigrants in the U.S.. Given the discrepancy between native and illegal, and that the school lunch program costs $11.3 billion... how much do you think this accounts to?

Furthermore, how much do illegal immigrants pay into S.S.?
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I didn't say anything erroneous.

Illegal aliens use stolen identities to pay into social security quite a bit.
 
apdst said:
I didn't say anything erroneous.

Illegal aliens use stolen identities to pay into social security quite a bit.
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You're doing it once again.
 
Ikari said:
I said Afghanistan was responsible. But we are bombing all sorts of citizens because of 9/11. Do they deserve it? Should they be held to the repercussions of others?
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So a country of 32 million people should have to face consequences, because of what a few in their government and the Taliban did?


The German people had to pay reparations after the war, but their government waged the war. Was that fair?
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It wasn't smart, particularly after WW1 as it was one major factor that lead to the Nazi party taking power.

You want to remove responsibility because there are consequences you don't want to bear...
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Yes, I don't want, or feel as though I should have to, bear the burden paying taxes or my life for something that a corrupt and lying administration did.

Bill Clinton bombed Iraq, killing 2,000 civilians, and decided to not pursue Bin Laden. Bush and Cheney decided to invade Iraq for oil. These are the people responsible for the current plight of Iraq and Afghanistan. Hold them accountable, and stop demanding that common Americans pay for the greed/incompetence of these men.
 
truthatallcost said:
So a country of 32 million people should have to face consequences, because of what a few in their government and the Taliban did?
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Is being bombed not a repercussion? Having their cities reduced to rubble, governments destroyed, and placed more in the hands of terrorist organisations than ever before? Or are you against the wars? Against bombing civilian areas?

truthatallcost said:
It wasn't smart, particularly after WW1 as it was one major factor that lead to the Nazi party taking power.
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One of the reasons, yes, but Germany had to bear it. Japan lost its ability to hold a military. The people of Japan were nuked. Was that wrong? That was the people of that country bearing repercussions for the actions of their government. Are you against that act? The firebombing of Tokyo? The reparations and restrictions against Japan, bore by its people, afterwards?



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truthatallcost said:
es, I don't want, or feel as though I should have to, bear the burden paying taxes or my life for something that a corrupt and lying administration did.

Bill Clinton bombed Iraq, killing 2,000 civilians, and decided to not pursue Bin Laden. Bush and Cheney decided to invade Iraq for oil. These are the people responsible for the current plight of Iraq and Afghanistan. Hold them accountable, and stop demanding that common Americans pay for the greed/incompetence of these men.
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I don't feel that I should lose my job if the board makes a terrible decision that crushes profitability, yet it would remain a possibility. We are all, on some level, bear the consequences of the actions of our government. And if you do not like those consequences, you need to vote for different people or try better to control the government. End of story.
 
truthatallcost said:
Only 4% of illegal immigrants work in agriculture, leaving 96% who don't. The 'who's going to pick your lettuce' argument is massively overused, and doesn't reflect the fact that only a tiny fraction of illegals perform this kind of labor.
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I see.. but where do they work then?

American tech companies like Microsoft want foreign tech workers, because they can be paid less, and are generally more subservient than American workers. And yes, there has been a shortage of skilled American tech workers.
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LOL .. one of the most "subservient" workers are Americans.. they are basically drones that cant think for themselves. The reason that they want foreign tech workers is not pay, but skill and adaptability.

Americans now have to compete with people from around the world for jobs at American companies. Great for programmers in India, laborers from Mexico, workers from China, and bad for Americans.
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Yes welcome to the world. Putting up barriers will only increase prices across the board.. you want to pay a dollar plus per orange?
 
apdst said:
70% of illegal immigrants get on welfare when they get to The United States.
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LOL that you got to prove... how on earth can you get welfare if you are an illegal? You cant even get a freaking bank account!
 
PeteEU said:
I see.. but where do they work then?
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The majority of illegal-alien workers and low-skilled immigrants who hold jobs in service, construction, and manufacturing. But native-born Americans hold the majority of these jobs within each sector. The Pew Hispanic Center also estimates that only 4% of illegal workers in the United States work in agriculture.



LOL .. one of the most "subservient" workers are Americans.. they are basically drones that cant think for themselves. The reason that they want foreign tech workers is not pay, but skill and adaptability.
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At Bank of America, visa workers are filling some positions once held by Americans who were either laid off by the bank or shifted into other positions, the employee said.

“I’m working more and more with H-1B visa developers than American developers within our company,” the employee said. “We’ve seen them pretty much replace a lot of the developer/programmer-type roles.

“If you go into any development team in the bank, I don’t know of any American developers that I’ve worked with over the last couple of years. They’re all Indian.

Bank of America declined to comment

The second largest bank in the U.S. used to employ American developers, now they import Indian workers. If you don't think this is about pay and the ability to easily control Indian workers on H-1B visas, then you're grossly naive.
In Charlotte, foreign workers replace Americans in tech roles | The Charlotte Observer


Yes welcome to the world. Putting up barriers will only increase prices across the board.. you want to pay a dollar plus per orange?
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If you are replaced in Denmark by an Indian willing to work for half your wages, lets see how rosy you are towards globalization then Pete :)
 
jmotivator said:
Except that nobody has made any such argument. The original study was on the cumulative effect of mass immigration, not per-immigrant.

And any economic source that uses productivity as a measure of pay inequality needs to be given the old Yeller treatment. Increased productivity over the last 30 years has come almost entirely from the investment in technology by the employer, not increased work by the employee. If a production line gets a robot that does twice as many welds per hour than the human counterpart should the human welder get a raise? Nope. The entity that invested in the technology should see the reward for increased productivity... namely the employer.
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“Increased productivity over the last 30 years has come almost entirely from the investment in technology by the employer, not increased work by the employee.”

The faster and more extensive technology advances, workers must continually learn more and more. They must build a balance between acquiring knowledge that is narrow but deep and knowledge that is broad but shallow. The volume of depth and breadth of knowledge/skill become increasingly difficult, in general, for a single individual to attain.

Labor is part and parcel a cause of productivity gains. Historically, wages go up as productivity goes up. However, since about 1976, labor productivity has continued to climb while wages have flattened. Now, going back to 1928, corporate after-tax profits are at their highest, effective corporate taxes at their lowest, the S&P 500 at its highest, and wages, as a % of GDP, the lowest since 1945. However, our PPP (Purchasing Power Parity) is at its highest. It’s nearly $19K per capita. There's enough to go around. The problem is the rich and corps have been greedy and not sharing the wealth. It isn’t that the economy is bad, obviously. Our employment rate is just fine. It’s the distribution of income/wealth that stinks. A tax structure that more favors the middle class, and requires more of higher incomes and corporations, higher minimum wages, which will take a lot of people off government assistance, and budget cuts, especially in wiser defense spending, or some combination makes sense to me.
 
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Kushinator said:
You mistakenly stated something that is not supported, nor can be considered common knowledge.

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Of the 62%, 48% comes from school lunch programs.

Source
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Just a technicality: It's not like of the 62%, 48% comes from school lunch program, leaving 14% for whatever else. There are multiple uses of the system by the same people. Like, 51% using Medicare (limited to local clinics, and can also use emergency care).
 
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