• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

FDA Orders Antibacterials Removed From Consumer Soaps

Consumer products like soap do not have the kind of approval process that a pharmaceutical does. If these anti-bacterial soaps were to be a prescribed drug, they would have never made it past the trials and thus never been on the market. However, consumer products don't work like that and its up to the government to prove that they are either ineffective or harmful. Thus it can take years or decades after they are on the market before that happens. The problem is not the FDA here, its that the FDA does not have the resources to research every product before it comes to market.
 
This should have been done a LONG time ago. It's probably too late to matter much at this point.

Antibacterial hand lotion is in every patients room in every hospital.

Should it be removed because it " doesn't work " ?
 
5 reasons to skip antibacterial soap - Consumer Reports

Better late than never.

Hospitals have been using these products for over 30 years and there more germs [deadly ones] there than nearly anywhere.

The problem of germs in hospitals has been getting worse not better. Now we have a massive problem with germs for which we have ZERO killers, which are killing large numbers of people, in hospitals.

Hospitals are increasingly one of the most dangerous places to be.

Between 5 and 10 percent of all patients contract at least one hospital-acquired infection—also known as a healthcare-associated infection or nosocomial infection—during their stay in an acute care hospital. According to estimates from the National Nosocomial Infections Surveillance (NNIS) system, in 2002, approximately 1.7 million cases of HAIs and 99,000 associated deaths occurred in U.S. hospitals, leading to extra costs of up to $6.5 billion each year. While the CDC estimated in 1995 that approximately 1.9 million cases of HAIs occurred in hospitals, differences in data collection methods make comparisons between 1995 and 2002 difficult. However, one trend is clear: the infections are becoming more complicated to treat as their resistance to antibiotics grows.
http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/hospital-acquired-infections-faq.aspx

EDIT: If 2002 is the latest info we have on this then I have yet another major bitch.
 
Last edited:
Antibacterial hand lotion is in every patients room in every hospital.

Should it be removed because it " doesn't work " ?

My issue doesn't have to do with its effectiveness. Plain soap and water washes the bacteria off and down the drain. Antibiotic soap kills all the bacteria except those resistant to antibiotics and washes those down the drain, allowing them to multiply at higher rates than if they had to compete for resources with the other 99% of bacteria that aren't resistant.

My issue is the overuse of antibiotics in medicine, hand wash, cleaners, farming, everything. And while it makes sense to use them for people who are immunosuppressived or already have infections, we may need to adjust how much they are used in hospitals as well. The cleaners, soaps, and disinfectants used in hospitals are loaded with antibiotics. That is also why infections that you get in hospitals are more dangerous than ones you get in the general public.
 
These are not Twinkies we are talking about...the war on microbes is a government concern, an important one in fact, or should be. Our current government seems to have great difficulty correctly prioritizing.

Only if you think their priorities have any relationship to our priorities.
 
Consumer products like soap do not have the kind of approval process that a pharmaceutical does. If these anti-bacterial soaps were to be a prescribed drug, they would have never made it past the trials and thus never been on the market. However, consumer products don't work like that and its up to the government to prove that they are either ineffective or harmful. Thus it can take years or decades after they are on the market before that happens. The problem is not the FDA here, its that the FDA does not have the resources to research every product before it comes to market.

Thus we have thousands of unregulated products on the market, and a population serving as guinea pigs. It's not right.

I don't think every product should go through rigorous testing to prove its efficacy and safety, because there are many different versions of the same thing. But something like tricloscan has been an obvious problem for years. Companies should not be allowed to put new chemicals on the market without regulatory approval. Likewise, they should not be able to put pre-existing chemicals on the market under new purposes that have never been tried before.
 
Only if you think their priorities have any relationship to our priorities.

I want to say that you are full of it but it is becoming increasingly clear that they have sold out the interests of the average American worker to foreign governments in order to purchase what ever they wanted to buy at the time. That was fine when we were a rich SuperPower, in fact in that position generosity is a good thing, but it has not been the case for a long time. And regardless is was not fine because our own government lied to us about the end result of the trade deals and other economic policy. Them being ignorant of the result of what they were doing is possible, but is only slightly better re their morality.
 
I want to say that you are full of it but it is becoming increasingly clear that they have sold out the interests of the average American worker to foreign governments in order to purchase what ever they wanted to buy at the time. That was fine when we were a rich SuperPower, in fact in that position generosity is a good thing, but it has not been the case for a long time.

You're full of it. They just don't friggin' care about you, me, or our families. They sneer at Americans who cling to their Bibles and their guns. Dairy farmers care more about the cows they milk than our politicians and bureaucrats care about the taxpayers they milk.
 
You're full of it. They just don't friggin' care about you, me, or our families. They sneer at Americans who cling to their Bibles and their guns. Dairy farmers care more about the cows they milk than our politicians and bureaucrats care about the taxpayers they milk.

I amended my post before I saw this, you likely like it better now.

JEEZ, no wonder you departed the country.
 
FDA Orders Antibacterials Removed From Consumer Soaps - NBC News

THey have been on the market how long?

NOW the government decides that they should not be??

NOW the "journalists" are saying that there was never scientific justification for them being used???

This is why we dont have any faith anymore in the elite in general and the government in particular, too much incompetence, too many very very late calls.



Bashing government is such a popular thing to do nowadays. Yeah, if only we had a small government, if only they were not corrupt, and if only they did not overreach... Things would be then all right. Things would not be recalled too late, and better yet, nothing would be banned, no even lead in the water.
 
Bashing government is such a popular thing to do nowadays. Yeah, if only we had a small government, if only they were not corrupt, and if only they did not overreach... Things would be then all right. Things would not be recalled too late, and better yet, nothing would be banned, no even lead in the water.

Which is worse...big powerful government which lies and fails to properly prioritize, or small government that does not have the power to get things done?

I dont know, and I never put in a position.

I will however complain if the end result sucks.

And it currently does.
 
My issue doesn't have to do with its effectiveness. Plain soap and water washes the bacteria off and down the drain. Antibiotic soap kills all the bacteria except those resistant to antibiotics and washes those down the drain, allowing them to multiply at higher rates than if they had to compete for resources with the other 99% of bacteria that aren't resistant.

My issue is the overuse of antibiotics in medicine, hand wash, cleaners, farming, everything. And while it makes sense to use them for people who are immunosuppressived or already have infections, we may need to adjust how much they are used in hospitals as well. The cleaners, soaps, and disinfectants used in hospitals are loaded with antibiotics. That is also why infections that you get in hospitals are more dangerous than ones you get in the general public.

What eludes people is the fact that *bad as well as *good bacteria are killed by these products. We NEED good bacteria in order to exist.
 
What eludes people is the fact that *bad as well as *good bacteria are killed by these products. We NEED good bacteria in order to exist.

You're not getting the issue. At all.

The antibacterial soaps are being removed from the market because they don't seem to do anything more than washing with regular soap.

There is no safety hazard here, although a theoretical longer term one may exist on resistance to the agents....this has NOTHING to do with antibiotic resistance however.

Bacteria, good and bad, is killed by regular soap. I suggest you continue to use it.
 
My issue doesn't have to do with its effectiveness. Plain soap and water washes the bacteria off and down the drain. Antibiotic soap kills all the bacteria except those resistant to antibiotics and washes those down the drain, allowing them to multiply at higher rates than if they had to compete for resources with the other 99% of bacteria that aren't resistant.

My issue is the overuse of antibiotics in medicine, hand wash, cleaners, farming, everything. And while it makes sense to use them for people who are immunosuppressived or already have infections, we may need to adjust how much they are used in hospitals as well. The cleaners, soaps, and disinfectants used in hospitals are loaded with antibiotics. That is also why infections that you get in hospitals are more dangerous than ones you get in the general public.

Antibiotics are different from the antibacterial stop get in soap and hand cleaners. Please don't confuse the two- the resistance to bacteriocidal agents like triclosan or chlorhexidine , or, in the case of hand sanitizer, alcohol, is functionally zero and the bigger issue is not washing hands long enough to get to all the microbes.

Antibiotic use is a problem, and resistance may lead to a pretty scary state of affairs in a few decades.
 
FDA Orders Antibacterials Removed From Consumer Soaps - NBC News

THey have been on the market how long?

NOW the government decides that they should not be??

NOW the "journalists" are saying that there was never scientific justification for them being used???

This is why we dont have any faith anymore in the elite in general and the government in particular, too much incompetence, too many very very late calls.

Well, the effects of breeding were not as clear back then. Now we know! Evolution is not always good for us.
 
Protecting the citizens is an appropriate and important role of government. Fussing with things that don't harm anybody is not such a role. If the government wants to let people know that they think antibacterial soap is a scam, they should say so. But acting to change the marketplace about something benign goes beyond that role.
 
Back
Top Bottom