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Judge denies injunction against vaccine law

joG said:
I think that vaccinations are the way to go. I ve had dozens. But outside of extreme examples I believe the way to immunisation must be by persuasion and not coercion. This is even without considering the probability of forcing conscientious objectors to act against their religious beliefs being anti Constitutional. This latter concern would not arise, if the Constitution were changed.
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Unfortunately, the most persuasive argument for vaccines is our disfigured grandparents, and they're dying off. People are forgetting how terrible these diseases really are. They're things that some skinny kid in the third world gets, not we in the West. Well, that's changing again...

At the end of the day, no one is forcing the objectors. They're forcing their children, who are at ever-higher risks, and who never consented to be put at those risks. Allowing a parent to make that choice for their child ultimately could mean not only their child's life, but the life of another child who's immune compromised, allergic, or even successfully vaccinated as herd immunity begins to fail.

I don't think a pseudo-scientific objection trumps other people's right to live. If you want to take risks with your OWN life, affecting no one else, fine. I don't care what medical treatment someone wants to deny THEMSELVES. But they don't get to kill their children, or the children of others.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
In other words, if you had your way, we'd still have millions dying each year from smallpox and millions more dying being permanently disabled from polio.

In other words, to protect your personal definition of freedom, you see no hypocrisy in costing millions of other innocent people the freedom to live, to breathe, to walk. And you somehow think that's "right".
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:roll: Proof that millions of people are dying in the US. You can't because it's not happening.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Yep, I don't really care what anyone's excuses is, the only waiver to vaccinations for children should be the child is medically unable to take the vaccine, that's incredibly rare.

every single other child should be vaccinated, and if parents won't do it, then CPS should get involved.

It's like when a Jehova's witness child needs a tranfusion, the procedure is to give them the blood and tell the parents they can sue if they don't like it.
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This. Let the knuckle draggers kill themselves all they want. But permitting them to use their children as pawns, at no cost to themselves, possibly killing a bunch of first graders in their wake, is inexcusable.
 
Henrin said:
No it's not. There is no considerable risk from the current numbers of not vaccinated nor is there any sort of high number of outbreaks anywhere in the country. This whole thing started because some foreign kid went to Disney world that was sick and California freaked out about it. Of course, they didn't do anything about people coming into the state, but instead acted on kids in schools. lol.
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Well, yes, there is. That's why we're having outbreaks.

An individual community's risk depends on lots of things. But one of them is mobility, and Americans are ever-more mobile.

It wasn't a foreign kid. It was an unvaccinated American kid who went abroad. See the problem?

And beyond that, there have been dozens of outbreaks in nearly every state.

But regardless of whether the risk is high or low, you have zero right to subject others to life-threatening risks. That is not your "bodily right." Your bodily rights end at you.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Unfortunately, the most persuasive argument for vaccines is our disfigured grandparents, and they're dying off. People are forgetting how terrible these diseases really are. They're things that some skinny kid in the third world gets, not we in the West. Well, that's changing again...

At the end of the day, no one is forcing the objectors. They're forcing their children, who are at ever-higher risks, and who never consented to be put at those risks. Allowing a parent to make that choice for their child ultimately could mean not only their child's life, but the life of another child who's immune compromised, allergic, or even successfully vaccinated as herd immunity begins to fail.

I don't think a pseudo-scientific objection trumps other people's right to live. If you want to take risks with your OWN life, affecting no one else, fine. I don't care what medical treatment someone wants to deny THEMSELVES. But they don't get to kill their children, or the children of others.
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That whole herd immunity thing has never been proven. As I said, we have areas in the country with 80% of below vaccine rates for decades and yet no one has gotten sick.

And no one is killing their children by not getting the vaccine.
 
Henrin said:
That whole herd immunity thing has never been proven. As I said, we have areas in the country with 80% of below vaccine rates for decades and yet no one has gotten sick.

And no one is killing their children by not getting the vaccine.
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I just explained to you how this works. I don't know why I bother with you; you're the same in every debate. But refer back to previous posts until something clicks in your brain, if it will.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
I just explained to you how this works. I don't know why I bother with you; you're the same in every debate. But refer back to previous posts until something clicks in your brain, if it will.
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Do you realize people that come back from high risk countries are checked out, right?
 
Henrin said:
:roll: Proof that millions of people are dying in the US. You can't because it's not happening.
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Because our populations were widely vaccinated until anti vaxxing started a decade ago.
 
Henrin said:
:roll: Proof that millions of people are dying in the US. You can't because it's not happening.
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That's about the most ignorant retort I've read in a long time...because if people refused to get their smallpox and polio vaccinations, we WOULD have millions dying worldwide. Are you really, truly going to try to argue otherwise?

But then, the fact that you pointed to "in the US" when I never limited it our borders is telling.
 
Hatuey said:
You don't have a right to infect people with dangerous diseases which can kill them. This has been supported over and over in cases where people have infected other people with AIDS. Can you give somebody a cold flu? Sure. Can you knowingly give them AIDS by sleeping with them? I wouldn't suggest it.
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There is no vaccine against AIDS, in your world if one existed people would have a right to opt out their kids from the Vaccine. Also AIDS is a difficult disease to catch compared to Small Pox,and other airborne or waterborne viruses.
 
Green Hornet said:
There is no vaccine against AIDS, in your world if one existed people would have a right to opt out their kids from the Vaccine. Also AIDS is a difficult disease to catch compared to Small Pox,and other airborne or waterborne viruses.
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I'm establishing that there is certainly a guideline for what you can and can't do in the general population. Don't like it? Don't like within that population. It seems like an insignificant minority wants to be allowed to get people sick if they so wish. **** that and them. :shrug:
 
Hatuey said:
I'm establishing that there is certainly a guideline for what you can and can't do in the general population. Don't like it? Don't like within that population. It seems like an insignificant minority wants to be allowed to get people sick if they so wish. **** that and them. :shrug:
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Oh you are for Vaccinations, my mistake.
 
Henrin said:
I think laws mandating vaccines or any other medical procedure should never come into existence. If the people have the right to their body then they have a right to control what goes in our bodies.

Furthermore, these things have treatments and are not nearly as deadly as people pretend.
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Yup...the hypocrisy of liberals in this case definitely runs deep. It's only your body when it suits them and not when it doesn't.
 
Somerville said:
Here we go again. The anti-vaxxer movement is an interesting combination of 'greenies' and fundamentalist Christians; two groups which seldom agree on much at all.

Following an outbreak of chicken pox a couple years ago, the California state legislature passed a bill requiring all school children in both public and private schools to have a complete vaccination record. Naturally a lawsuit was filed on the basis of religious freedom and parental control over childrens' medical decisions.



One little kicker to the tale - well, actually two. First - It’s important to note that SB 277 does not apply to children not entering kindergarten or seventh grade. So, children who had a personal-belief exemption in place last year will not have to prove vaccination until they reach the next “checkpoint” grade. and Second - Two other lawsuits have been filed in Los Angeles, the decision in San Diego is only relevant for the San Diego schools.
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I'm waiting for Trump to claim on Day One he'll ban mandatory vaccinations.
 
Henrin said:
I think laws mandating vaccines or any other medical procedure should never come into existence. If the people have the right to their body then they have a right to control what goes in our bodies.

Furthermore, these things have treatments and are not nearly as deadly as people pretend.
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Nobody cares about your uneducated, ignorant and dangerous beliefs. People like you would have never killed off Small Pox, Polio or other dangerous diseases.
 
Renae said:
Nobody cares about your uneducated, ignorant and dangerous beliefs. People like you would have never killed off Small Pox, Polio or other dangerous diseases.
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And you think other people killed those things off?
 
Henrin said:
Those things still exist, you know. :lol:
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Actually there have been no known cases of Smallpox world wide for 40 years.
The last known case of smallpox in Ethiopia occurred on August 9, 1976, in El Kere Region. In Kenya, the last case was on February 5, 1977, in the Mandera District.
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Reported by the World Health Organization in the Weekly Epidemiological Record 52:389-391, 1977

The last cases of naturally occurring paralytic polio in the United States were in 1979, when an outbreak occurred among the ( non vaccinated ) Amish in several Midwestern states. From 1980 through 1999, there were 162 confirmed cases of paralytic polio cases reported.Aug 11, 2014.

Of the 162 cases, eight cases were acquired outside the United States and imported. The last imported case caused by wild poliovirus into the United States was reported in 1993.
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Somerville said:
Here we go again. The anti-vaxxer movement is an interesting combination of 'greenies' and fundamentalist Christians; two groups which seldom agree on much at all.

Following an outbreak of chicken pox a couple years ago, the California state legislature passed a bill requiring all school children in both public and private schools to have a complete vaccination record. Naturally a lawsuit was filed on the basis of religious freedom and parental control over childrens' medical decisions.



One little kicker to the tale - well, actually two. First - It’s important to note that SB 277 does not apply to children not entering kindergarten or seventh grade. So, children who had a personal-belief exemption in place last year will not have to prove vaccination until they reach the next “checkpoint” grade. and Second - Two other lawsuits have been filed in Los Angeles, the decision in San Diego is only relevant for the San Diego schools.
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Exasperation.jpg
 
Henrin said:
Those things still exist, you know. :lol:
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Oh and to dove tail with Minnie's comments, educate yourself:

WHO | Frequently asked questions and answers on smallpox

Does it occur naturally?

Smallpox no longer occurs naturally since it was totally eradicated by a lengthy and painstaking process, which identified all cases and their contacts and ensured that they were all vaccinated. Until then, smallpox killed many millions of people.Weren't the remaining stocks of the smallpox virus destroyed after smallpox was eradicated?

When smallpox was officially certified as eradicated, in December 1979, an agreement was reached under which all remaining stocks of the virus would either be destroyed or passed to one of two secure laboratories – one in the United States and one in the Russian Federation. That process was completed in the early 1980s and since then no other laboratory has officially had access to the virus which causes smallpox.
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Henrin said:
Lol. Don't you think that is a bit of hyperbole? They aren't sick, so you're not deciding to subject your child to anything by not getting them vaccinated. You're just deciding to not vaccinate them.

And really, you don't think I have a right to risk other peoples health in public? You should perhaps pay attention to sick people when you're around town. What are you going to do about them?
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Please keep your un-vaccinated children away from my grandchildren.
Is that to much to ask?
 
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