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Apple CEO Says "Won't Bring Home Money Until Tax Rates are Fair".

gdgyva said:
and if i were in his shoes, i would do exactly the same thing

actually i would use some of that to make purchases of other companies....but that is another issue

but i would never bring the funds back here just to pay taxes on them....why would, or should he

his shareholders would roast him alive
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Same. My business is registered in the US, but none of the profits I make goes back into the country.
 
CanadaJohn said:
The Fraser Institute here in Canada, a conservative think tank, recently published a report on the burden of taxes on Canadians from 1961 until 2015. Not surprisingly, for anyone who lives a normal life, the Fraser Institute found that the total tax burden on Canadians from all walks of life was just under 43% of income while the total cost of proving food, clothing, and shelter was just over 37%. Imagine - Canadians are working more to support their governments than they are to support themselves and their families.

Taxation levels in pretty much all western democracies are an utter disgrace and they are reflective of liberal/progressive ideology that believes government active intrusion in the day to day lives of citizens is a benefit when in large part it's a scourge and destroying the freedom to live and prosper that we all should enjoy.
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Wow, the Fraser institute, so objective!

Really though, I've lived in both countries and Canada has just as many tax breaks and loopholes as the U.S., if not more in some ways. On paper I should be taxed at 40% but after all the exemptions I end up paying something like 20%. Most people I know don't use an accountant or bother to do research, so they end up paying taxes blindly. There are exemptions for so many little things.
 
gdgyva said:
Jobs is dead

has been for a number of years now

And yeah...for companies, profit over patriotism....easy choice

people dont go into business for their country....

they do it for themselves, and their family

sorry...but that is business 101
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Already acknowledge that.

Business 101, one hurts their business when customers discover that the person selling them a product does so at the expense of the Nation. Apple is beginning to learn that fact and will continue to.
 
FieldTheorist said:
Yeah, they receive far less sympathy from me. Could you imagine holding your money off-shore as a citizen for years and years, until you had, say, ten-thousand dollars sitting in a foreign bank account, and then having the temerity to turn around to the IRS and say, "I don't want to pay taxes on the money that I made. Could you please lower the tax rate on money coming in from other countries?"

I don't necessarily have a problem with lowering the tax rate on money made completely outside of the US, but I'd only ever be willing to consider lowering them in exchange for something like Elizabeth Warren's simplified tax code.

This is also conjoined with the fact that, despite making 52 billion in profit, they pay only 25% in taxes and in some years have avoided paying any taxes, and then they have the audacity to bitch about how unfair the system is to them. Cry me a river, a Apple. I feel so, so bad for you.
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Strawman; no one is say that. They want the tax to be fair. 40% isn't fair.
 
Casper said:
Already acknowledge that.

Business 101, one hurts their business when customers discover that the person selling them a product does so at the expense of the Nation. Apple is beginning to learn that fact and will continue to.
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:lol: Where did you get that from?
 
Northern Light said:
Wow, the Fraser institute, so objective!

Really though, I've lived in both countries and Canada has just as many tax breaks and loopholes as the U.S., if not more in some ways. On paper I should be taxed at 40% but after all the exemptions I end up paying something like 20%. Most people I know don't use an accountant or bother to do research, so they end up paying taxes blindly. There are exemptions for so many little things.
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Not to be disrespectful or uncharitable, but clearly you have no understanding of what I posted.

The Fraser Institute study was entirely objective - and that's why they came to their conclusion. It had nothing to do with tax rates, as your post seems to imply or was that just an attempt at deflection? The study took into account all forms of taxation at all levels of government - federal, provincial, local. It took into account not just income taxes, but other forms of taxation such as payroll taxes, gasoline taxes, sales taxes, licensing fees and a multitude of other user fees. In summary, any way in which the government took income from its citizens in their daily lives.

Not sure where you live, but here in Canada we have taxes on taxes on taxes. As an example, with gasoline - we have federal taxes on gasoline as well as provincial taxes on gasoline that also tax the federal tax and we are soon to have carbon taxes on both the federal and provincial levels that will further tax both the product and the taxes.

If you don't appreciate that governments at all levels are basically bleeding you dry and then telling you that you need their help because you can't afford to save so you can't afford to pay for the upbringing of your own children and their education and your own retirement, etc., failing to acknowledge that the reason you can't afford these things is because the government is taking too much of your income already, so the government needs to tax you more so they can give you back more, all the while hiring more paper pushers at wages higher than those paying the tax burden enjoy, then you're just what the government loves - an ignorant fool.
 
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Casper said:
Already acknowledge that.

Business 101, one hurts their business when customers discover that the person selling them a product does so at the expense of the Nation. Apple is beginning to learn that fact and will continue to.
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you really think the basic american consumer even knows if Apple is an american company or not?

all they care about is when the I7 is coming out, and how much out of pocket will it cost them to get it

90% couldnt tell you anything about the company, the CEO, or their taxes

and that is the way they want it

i bet the majority who have 401k's wouldnt even know they owned a small piece of it, through one mutual fund or another
 
gdgyva said:
you really think the basic american consumer even knows if Apple is an american company or not?

all they care about is when the I7 is coming out, and how much out of pocket will it cost them to get it

90% couldnt tell you anything about the company, the CEO, or their taxes

and that is the way they want it

i bet the majority who have 401k's wouldnt even know they owned a small piece of it, through one mutual fund or another
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Ummm , most Americans do know Apple is an American company, heck every time they come out with a new product the media act as if it is big news and give tem free advertising. Their products are usually flawed and over priced but hey buy their stuff if you want to support them, and China.
 
Casper said:
Ummm , most Americans do know Apple is an American company, heck every time they come out with a new product the media act as if it is big news and give tem free advertising. Their products are usually flawed and over priced but hey buy their stuff if you want to support them, and China.
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i said most americans....not me

i use an android

i use a pc

and i have a kindle....all not apple products

but i own the stock, and have since i saw the frenzy of people buying iphones

thought of selling it in the last 18 months....but waiting to see what happens as the next phone comes out

or until they decide to actually use some of that cash to advance the company....

imo as it is with Kramer, they should buy Sirius Radio....

cost them less than 20% of their free cash, and give them an instant in to 75% of every car that rolls off the line
 
gdgyva said:
and i thank god everyday, that you, or someone like you, isnt in charge of deciding who pays what

and the day they are....is the day i renounce my citizenship here....and head to the islands

if i am going to get screwed, i at least want to have it done to me in paradise
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And I'd be only to too happy to pay for your ticket out of the country.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Not to be disrespectful or uncharitable, but clearly you have no understanding of what I posted.

The Fraser Institute study was entirely objective - and that's why they came to their conclusion. It had nothing to do with tax rates, as your post seems to imply or was that just an attempt at deflection? The study took into account all forms of taxation at all levels of government - federal, provincial, local. It took into account not just income taxes, but other forms of taxation such as payroll taxes, gasoline taxes, sales taxes, licensing fees and a multitude of other user fees. In summary, any way in which the government took income from its citizens in their daily lives.

Not sure where you live, but here in Canada we have taxes on taxes on taxes. As an example, with gasoline - we have federal taxes on gasoline as well as provincial taxes on gasoline that also tax the federal tax and we are soon to have carbon taxes on both the federal and provincial levels that will further tax both the product and the taxes.

If you don't appreciate that governments at all levels are basically bleeding you dry and then telling you that you need their help because you can't afford to save so you can't afford to pay for the upbringing of your own children and their education and your own retirement, etc., failing to acknowledge that the reason you can't afford these things is because the government is taking too much of your income already, so the government needs to tax you more so they can give you back more, all the while hiring more paper pushers at wages higher than those paying the tax burden enjoy, then you're just what the government loves - an ignorant fool.
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The Fraser Institute and "objective" sholud never share the same page.
 
American said:
Strawman; no one is say that.
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Not a strawman at all. It's literally what Tim Cook is doing.

They want the tax to be fair. 40% isn't fair.
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Well, "fair" is in the eye of the beholder. I can see an argument for keeping corporate taxes less than, say, 40%, but making income taxes and capital gains taxes much higher than they are now. Personally, I'd like to see what economic experts had to say on exactly where the sweet spot is, but I'm really only interested in listening to this if the economists involved take the disturbing level of income inequality, the dilapidated infrastructure, and the decreasing middle-class and extreme poverty as relevant considerations.

(And if that sweet spot happens to be determined to be 80%, although it won't but for the sake of argument, then I'd support an 80% tax rate.)
 
FieldTheorist said:
And I'd be only to too happy to pay for your ticket out of the country.
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When I leave you can bet a number of other people will be leaving also

Just remember one thing

when those of us in the upper brackets start leaving, it will leave a hell of a void for the lesser brackets to make up

Be careful on what you wish for
 
gdgyva said:
you really think the basic american consumer even knows if Apple is an american company or not?
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I'm willing to bet more Americans know that Apple is an American company than know who our vice president is.
 
gdgyva said:
When I leave you can bet a number of other people will be leaving also

Just remember one thing

when those of us in the upper brackets start leaving, it will leave a hell of a void for the lesser brackets to make up

Be careful on what you wish for
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I'd be interested to know where you'd intend to go. If you want a significantly lower rate then you'll have to renounce your citizenship and will either have to live on the fringes of civilization or go somewhere where the dollar has a mighty reach but you're liable to be chopped up on a beach somewhere or kidnapped and ransomed. And we should be handing you a pretty sumptuous exit tax on your way out the door. Ta!
 
CanadaJohn said:
Not to be disrespectful or uncharitable, but clearly you have no understanding of what I posted.

The Fraser Institute study was entirely objective - and that's why they came to their conclusion. It had nothing to do with tax rates, as your post seems to imply or was that just an attempt at deflection? The study took into account all forms of taxation at all levels of government - federal, provincial, local. It took into account not just income taxes, but other forms of taxation such as payroll taxes, gasoline taxes, sales taxes, licensing fees and a multitude of other user fees. In summary, any way in which the government took income from its citizens in their daily lives.

Not sure where you live, but here in Canada we have taxes on taxes on taxes. As an example, with gasoline - we have federal taxes on gasoline as well as provincial taxes on gasoline that also tax the federal tax and we are soon to have carbon taxes on both the federal and provincial levels that will further tax both the product and the taxes.

If you don't appreciate that governments at all levels are basically bleeding you dry and then telling you that you need their help because you can't afford to save so you can't afford to pay for the upbringing of your own children and their education and your own retirement, etc., failing to acknowledge that the reason you can't afford these things is because the government is taking too much of your income already, so the government needs to tax you more so they can give you back more, all the while hiring more paper pushers at wages higher than those paying the tax burden enjoy, then you're just what the government loves - an ignorant fool.
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Sorry but apparently we live in two different Canadian realities. And I'm not even wealthy.

We have more public services in Canada, services that I am grateful for and are part of the reason why I moved here. But the system is not unfair. Like I said, the tax system has plenty of breaks in it. Even something like fuel... there are federal tax refunds on fuel depending on how you use your vehicle, if you have disabled people in your family (like I do), etc.

Maybe you should visit an accountant come tax time. They might be able to help you?

I've noticed that people who whine about the tax system are usually ignorant of how to use it their advantage. The government won't give you a "how to" manual because they don't want everyone knowing, but there are so many ways to get money back or at least tax credits.
 
CanadaJohn said:
The Fraser Institute here in Canada, a conservative think tank, recently published a report on the burden of taxes on Canadians from 1961 until 2015. Not surprisingly, for anyone who lives a normal life, the Fraser Institute found that the total tax burden on Canadians from all walks of life was just under 43% of income while the total cost of proving food, clothing, and shelter was just over 37%. Imagine - Canadians are working more to support their governments than they are to support themselves and their families.

Taxation levels in pretty much all western democracies are an utter disgrace and they are reflective of liberal/progressive ideology that believes government active intrusion in the day to day lives of citizens is a benefit when in large part it's a scourge and destroying the freedom to live and prosper that we all should enjoy.
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Of course it's that high, the Canadian people have opted to hand over their well being to their Government, that's not cheap.
 
Tettsuo said:
What is a fair tax rate? America already has the lowest effective rates in the world.Forbes Welcome
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Apple made the money for the most part from the Americans, thanks to the tax system, which pays for the roads to get to the Apple store, the electrical grid to use many Apple products, the lights to light the stores and homes to use the products, the cell towers and tv towers so users can use the products, the health care system so that many people are healthy enough to use their products and buy them, and the economic system so that Americans have the expendable income to pay for the pricey products that Apple sells.

Apple should pay its fair share of taxes that it made off the backs of working Americans. Greed is all it is.

Don't pay attention to the man behind the screen. He's full of it. Apple would have plenty of deductions and credits off the 40% nominal rate. Exxon and GE in some years pay ZERO taxes. But it's possible that once you seek to escape the taxes, it's too late to claim some of the deductions and credits the company would have gotten, had it declared the income when it made it.

Americans should stop buying Apple products. Let Apple earn its money in the country where it likes the tax rate.
 
JumpinJack said:
Apple made the money for the most part from the Americans, thanks to the tax system, which pays for the roads to get to the Apple store, the electrical grid to use many Apple products, the lights to light the stores and homes to use the products, the cell towers and tv towers so users can use the products, the health care system so that many people are healthy enough to use their products and buy them, and the economic system so that Americans have the expendable income to pay for the pricey products that Apple sells.

Apple should pay its fair share of taxes that it made off the backs of working Americans. Greed is all it is.

Don't pay attention to the man behind the screen. He's full of it. Apple would have plenty of deductions and credits off the 40% nominal rate. Exxon and GE in some years pay ZERO taxes. But it's possible that once you seek to escape the taxes, it's too late to claim some of the deductions and credits the company would have gotten, had it declared the income when it made it.

Americans should stop buying Apple products. Let Apple earn its money in the country where it likes the tax rate.
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By definition, the money being discussed in this thread was made oversea. The money earned and taxed in the US is their fair share.

Of course, I've seen that fair share actually is ill defined and a code word for "more." Or would you like to offer a definition?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
AliHajiSheik said:
By definition, the money being discussed in this thread was made oversea. The money earned and taxed in the US is their fair share.

Of course, I've seen that fair share actually is ill defined and a code word for "more." Or would you like to offer a definition?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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That's not true. The money overseas was for the most part profit from America, is my understanding. Apple makes most of its money from America. Most of the large companies do, even though they have a global presence.
 
FieldTheorist said:
Not a strawman at all. It's literally what Tim Cook is doing.



Well, "fair" is in the eye of the beholder. I can see an argument for keeping corporate taxes less than, say, 40%, but making income taxes and capital gains taxes much higher than they are now. Personally, I'd like to see what economic experts had to say on exactly where the sweet spot is, but I'm really only interested in listening to this if the economists involved take the disturbing level of income inequality, the dilapidated infrastructure, and the decreasing middle-class and extreme poverty as relevant considerations.

(And if that sweet spot happens to be determined to be 80%, although it won't but for the sake of argument, then I'd support an 80% tax rate.)
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Of course you would, because socialism is greedy like that.
 
American said:
Of course you would, because socialism is greedy like that.
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That's not a serious or cogent response. That's a meaningless platitude standing in place for an argument.
 
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