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Grad Students Win Right to Unionize in an Ivy League Case

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TheDemSocialist

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Punctuating a string of Obama-era moves to shore up labor rights and expand protections for workers, the National Labor Relations Board ruled Tuesday that students who work as teaching and research assistants at private universities have a federally backed right to unionize.The case arose from a petition filed by a group of graduate students atColumbia University, who are seeking to win recognition for a union that will allow them a say over such issues as the quality of their health insurance and the timeliness of stipend payments.
Echoing longstanding complaints from blue-collar workers that they have become replaceable cogs in a globalized economic machine, the effort reflects a growing view among more highly educated employees in recent decades that they, too, are at the mercy of faceless organizations and are not being treated like professionals and aspiring professionals whose opinions are worthy of respect.
“What we’re fundamentally concerned about isn’t really money,” said Paul R. Katz, one of the Columbia graduate students involved in the organizing efforts. “It’s a question of power and democracy in a space in the academy that’s increasingly corporatized, hierarchical. That’s what we’re most concerned about.”
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Read more @: Grad Students Win Right to Unionize in an Ivy League Case
:applaud:applaud
Great news and a big step in the right direction. Graduate students are expected to do much of the work and spend countless hours in the labs while much of the grant money that is allocated for students goes to over head for the university. Graduate students are essentially cheap labor they provide to the university. Hopefully with this the grant money will mostly find its way into the lab and classroom and out of admins pockets.



 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: Grad Students Win Right to Unionize in an Ivy League Case
:applaud:applaud
Great news and a big step in the right direction. Graduate students are expected to do much of the work and spend countless hours in the labs while much of the grant money that is allocated for students goes to over head for the university. Graduate students are essentially cheap labor they provide to the university. Hopefully with this the grant money will mostly find its way into the lab and classroom and out of admins pockets. [/FONT][/COLOR]
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Grad students also get their tuition subsidized and leave the university upon graduation with PhD's, DMA's, etc... My wife is a graduate assistant at the University of Minnesota working to get her DMA. To characterize this program as "cheap labor" is ludicrous.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: Grad Students Win Right to Unionize in an Ivy League Case
:applaud:applaud
Great news and a big step in the right direction. Graduate students are expected to do much of the work and spend countless hours in the labs while much of the grant money that is allocated for students goes to over head for the university. Graduate students are essentially cheap labor they provide to the university. Hopefully with this the grant money will mostly find its way into the lab and classroom and out of admins pockets. [/FONT][/COLOR]
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I don't even know where to begin with this. What kind of a labor are you doing at a college? What, are they working as janitors to get their tuition paid?
 
Jack Fabulous said:
Grad students also get their tuition subsidized and leave the university upon graduation with PhD's, DMA's, etc... My wife is a graduate assistant at the University of Minnesota working to get her DMA. To characterize this program as "cheap labor" is ludicrous.
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It depends on how badly they are being paid. Minimum wage? I would call that cheap labour.
 
DarkWizard12 said:
I don't even know where to begin with this. What kind of a labor are you doing at a college? What, are they working as janitors to get their tuition paid?
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Usually being TAs, lab techs, IT people, tutors, that kind of deal to my understanding. All while doing their own classes and research.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: Grad Students Win Right to Unionize in an Ivy League Case
:applaud:applaud
Great news and a big step in the right direction. Graduate students are expected to do much of the work and spend countless hours in the labs while much of the grant money that is allocated for students goes to over head for the university. Graduate students are essentially cheap labor they provide to the university. Hopefully with this the grant money will mostly find its way into the lab and classroom and out of admins pockets. [/FONT][/COLOR]
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What would be the destination at the end of the right direction?
 
Carjosse said:
It depends on how badly they are being paid. Minimum wage? I would call that cheap labour.
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$20/hr plus 75% of her tuition. NOBODY is getting paid minimum wage.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: Grad Students Win Right to Unionize in an Ivy League Case
:applaud:applaud
Great news and a big step in the right direction. Graduate students are expected to do much of the work and spend countless hours in the labs while much of the grant money that is allocated for students goes to over head for the university. Graduate students are essentially cheap labor they provide to the university. Hopefully with this the grant money will mostly find its way into the lab and classroom and out of admins pockets. [/FONT][/COLOR]
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Of course they are...why should they unionize? They get to go to University for "free" essentially.
 
Carjosse said:
Usually being TAs, lab techs, IT people, tutors, that kind of deal to my understanding. All while doing their own classes and research.
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Yes, exactly that. When I was in grad school for physics, I taught labs and tutored and did research on top of my classes. I didn't pay tuition, and got paid on top of it. It wasn't much, I think I made something like 20+/year back when I was in grad school; but add to that my tuition and fees and it was significant. Plus a grad student can live on almost nothing. I make over 5 times that now, and I feel like I was richer in grad school. Stupid adult life.
 
Carjosse said:
Usually being TAs, lab techs, IT people, tutors, that kind of deal to my understanding. All while doing their own classes and research.
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No one has to accept an assistantship. A student could just as easily find a job off-campus. The reality is that these programs provide the student with WAY more money that they can use towards their tuition than they could expect out of some part-time job.
 
DarkWizard12 said:
I don't even know where to begin with this. What kind of a labor are you doing at a college? What, are they working as janitors to get their tuition paid?
Click to expand...
When I worked at a University, the grad students who were paid, got about $1500 a semester (16 weeks@ 6 hours per week),
and for the out of state students, they got in state tuition rates, worth about $3000.
The teaching assistants (TAs) were expected to be available to help students at their scheduled 6 hours
per week, and grade homework, tests, ect.
The research assistants, would actually do the bulk of work running experiments.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
Grad students also get their tuition subsidized and leave the university upon graduation with PhD's, DMA's, etc... My wife is a graduate assistant at the University of Minnesota working to get her DMA. To characterize this program as "cheap labor" is ludicrous.
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Yep. In my book, they just created a solution for a problem they probably never wanted. If I was the universities I would ABSOLUTELY respect their right to unionize and be paid for what they were worth...which means I would let them all go, charge full tuition, and hire qualified adjuncts and research technicians.
 
Ikari said:
Those cost a lot more than a grad students.
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Sure...but on the plus side, you are now getting full ride tuitions to assist in the payment of those programs since the 'unionized' grad students are now paying their full ride.
 
DarkWizard12 said:
I don't even know where to begin with this. What kind of a labor are you doing at a college? What, are they working as janitors to get their tuition paid?
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Same type of labor professors and administrators are doing. Research, various forms of academic work from teaching classes to grading work, etc.
 
Ikari said:
Those cost a lot more than a grad students.
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Not to mention, deprives the graduate students of gaining valuable experience.
In many cases, the first time a researcher publishes, is when they are a grad student,
and get to put their name on their professors paper, as a co author.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Same type of labor professors and administrators are doing. Research, various forms of academic work from teaching classes to grading work, etc.
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But it seems like a STUDENT is doing it to get a degree and presumably open doors, whereas the professors are the ones doing this for the next 10, 20, 30 years however long their contract/tenure is.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: Grad Students Win Right to Unionize in an Ivy League Case
:applaud:applaud
Great news and a big step in the right direction. Graduate students are expected to do much of the work and spend countless hours in the labs while much of the grant money that is allocated for students goes to over head for the university. Graduate students are essentially cheap labor they provide to the university. Hopefully with this the grant money will mostly find its way into the lab and classroom and out of admins pockets. [/FONT][/COLOR]
Click to expand...

They can always drop out and get a real job.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
Grad students also get their tuition subsidized and leave the university upon graduation with PhD's, DMA's, etc... My wife is a graduate assistant at the University of Minnesota working to get her DMA. To characterize this program as "cheap labor" is ludicrous.
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It's far more accurate to describe grad school as an apprenticeship.

Now, unionization of adjunct faculty is another issue altogether. The Chronicle of Higher Education and the AAUP have been documenting this for a long time now. Let me give you just one homely example: I had lunch with a friend yesterday who's a prof. She told me everybody was getting a 3.5 cost-of-living raise and that for the first time in 11 years, the adjusts were also being given a raise, an additional $50 per course. Such an insult, but the Board is congratulating itself for finally doing something about those damned adjuncts...upon which the entire teaching system generally depends.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
Elimination of graduate assistanceships and skyrocketing tuition costs would be my guess.
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Why would you think they can negotiate or would try to negotiate terms that would require "skyrocketing" tuition and the end of GAs? The demands they list in the OP are pretty modest:

The case arose from a petition filed by a group of graduate students at Columbia University, who are seeking to win recognition for a union that will allow them a say over such issues as the quality of their health insurance and the timeliness of stipend payments.
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Don't see any demands to be paid $100,000 each for 4 hour per week work in that....:roll: Which makes sense because even unionized you have at the bargaining table an immensely powerful and wealthy institution against what are even with a union pretty powerless students.

Furthermore, some public universities are already unionized and the OP references studies which indicate the sky did not in fact fall, and things are working out fine, which again shouldn't be any surprise.

In rejecting such arguments, the board cited research that examined the impact of graduate student unions in public universities and generally concluded that the unions either had no effect on academic freedom and the relationship between students and faculty, or actually brought improvement.

“We don’t observe bad effects on academic freedom, bad effects on faculty-student relationships,” said Paula B. Voos, an professor at Rutgers University who was a co-author of one of the studies cited.

Professor Voos’s study, which compared students at four public universities that had graduate student labor unions with four that did not, found that on balance students at the unionized universities reported having better personal relationships and “professional support relationships” with their main faculty advisers.
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nota bene said:
It's far more accurate to describe grad school as an apprenticeship.

Now, unionization of adjunct faculty is another issue altogether. The Chronicle of Higher Education and the AAUP have been documenting this for a long time now. Let me give you just one homely example: I had lunch with a friend yesterday who's a prof. She told me everybody was getting a 3.5 cost-of-living raise and that for the first time in 11 years, the adjusts were also being given a raise, an additional $50 per course. Such an insult, but the Board is congratulating itself for finally doing something about those damned adjuncts...upon which the entire teaching system generally depends.
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Adjuncts are totally getting the shaft. Universities use them in much the same way as companies use temporary labor from companies like Pro Staff. They fill a void without having to offer them the benefit package that comes with full time employment.
 
JasperL said:
Why would you think they can negotiate or would try to negotiate terms that would require "skyrocketing" tuition and the end of GAs? The demands they list in the OP are pretty modest:



Don't see any demands to be paid $100,000 each for 4 hour per week work in that....:roll: Which makes sense because even unionized you have at the bargaining table an immensely powerful and wealthy institution against what are even with a union pretty powerless students.

Furthermore, some public universities are already unionized and the OP references studies which indicate the sky did not in fact fall, and things are working out fine, which again shouldn't be any surprise.
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Bottom line... they want to organize because they want more from the University. More costs more and the money has to come from somewhere. The graduate assistantship programs that I am aware of are already an incredible benefit to students. Students being the key term. They are not employees and these programs are a form of financial aid. In most cases it pays a percentage of tuition plus either a wage or stipend.

Don't see any demands to be paid $100,000 each for 4 hour per week work in that....:roll:
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Did someone claim they wanted 100K for a 4 hour week? No? Good. Reductio ad absurdums only work when somewhat relevant to the issue being discussed.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
Bottom line... they want to organize because they want more from the University. More costs more and the money has to come from somewhere. The graduate assistantship programs that I am aware of are already an incredible benefit to students. Students being the key term. They are not employees and these programs are a form of financial aid. In most cases it pays a percentage of tuition plus either a wage or stipend.
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I'm aware of how they work - was a graduate assistant a while back. And I'm sure they want "more" in some way or there is no point to a union. What I don't see is that this is a bad thing to give what are otherwise powerless students an organization through which to deal with a powerful university.

Did someone claim they wanted 100K for a 4 hour week? No? Good. Reductio ad absurdums only work when somewhat relevant to the issue being discussed.
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I was obviously being sarcastic and responding to your absurd argument, "Elimination of graduate assistanceships and skyrocketing tuition costs would be my guess." And then I pointed out what ACTUALLY happened in schools with unionized graduate assistants, which isn't much. If you have evidence unions mean the end of GAs and/or skyrocketing tuition, show it.
 
JasperL said:
I'm aware of how they work - was a graduate assistant a while back. And I'm sure they want "more" in some way or there is no point to a union. What I don't see is that this is a bad thing to give what are otherwise powerless students an organization through which to deal with a powerful university.
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This is the point, though. They are not powerless. They do not have to accept the assistantship and the terms of the assistantship are spelled out crystal clear ahead of time.
 
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