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Trump says Clinton, Democrats have 'failed and betrayed' African-Americans

Objective Voice said:
Gotta give you props - one Navy man to another. You learn alot when you take the time to learn about other people, other cultures outside your backyard. Once you get outside your comfort zone and talk to people particularly those who don't quite look like, sound like, act like, talk like you do and you discover they're just "PEOPLE", too, it opens your eyes and your heart to so much more.

I commend you, sir. :bravo:
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Thanks - it wasn't an easy row to hoe.

You're from Alabama, so you'll appreciate all of what I'm about say here - when I spent some real time in the Philippines, I began to notice a few things, like the boiled peanuts they sell on the street. They even sell chitlins (they call it "chicharon bulaklak") on the street, and yeah it stinks to high heaven. They place a high importance on saying 'sir' and "ma'am" when speaking English, and "po" (the gender-neutral Tagalog equivalent of "sir" and "ma'am") whenever speaking to those who are older...and putting elderly in an "old folks home" is almost unheard-of. They were amazed to see how much I liked okra and catfish. In Manila, there's two Cajun restaurants(!) that I know of (you'd be surprised what you can find in a city of 15M people). In one of them, I saw on the menu "mustard greens sauteed with bacon and onions" - I got so excited because I'd grown up with that dish! My wife said to not get that, to let her cook it for me the next day. I reluctantly agreed, and so the next day we went to the palengke - the open-air market - and she showed me that they grow and sell honest-to-goodness mustard greens there - they call it 'mustasa'. So she got that and cooked it up at home and it's like Jerry Clower said - "If I'm lyin' I'm dyin'!" - I did have tears in my eyes when she set it in front of me.

I've seen mimosa trees there (they call them 'ipil'), and even a magnolia tree. We call the Deep South the "Bible Belt"...but they're a lot more religious than we Southerners are - majority Catholic. It seems like almost every other block has a little church or gathering place on it. I guess what I'm getting to is that the Philippines is a very foreign country...but it has so much in common with the Deep South not of today, but of my youth.

One last thing - I was walking through a furniture store and I happened to see an issue of "Southern Living" on a coffee table. "Where the heck did they get that?" I wondered...until I saw on the next table over an issue of "Northern Living"...and after looking at both of them, I realized that one referred to southern Manila, and the other to northern Manila...which I guess is sorta understandable when Metro Manila's about the size of the Delta, but has more people than MS, LA, AR, and AL all put together!

Take care!
 
sanman said:
There was a riot situation still going on - did you expect security burdens to be re-arranged around accommodating Trump's speaking event?

Meanwhile Democrats create the conditions for social explosions with their vote-milking society-destroying policies, and yet they never stick around for those explosions like riots, etc when they happen.
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Interesting. George W Bush and Barrack Obama each flew through and into war zones to meet the troops and give speeches.

The Donald, on the other hand, is intimidated by speaking to a black audience in Milwaukee (that would be Milwaukee, USA). The poor boy finds it too dangerous (probably too dangerous to his fragile ego). Pretty weak!

Just another argument at to why he falls short of being Presidential material....(which most people see, which is why he will never be elected)

PS - you are not going to win the black vote if you are afraid to immerse yourself in a black audience and speak directly to them....
 
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Objective Voice said:
The bottom line here is politics are local. Whatever changes Trump believes he can make on behalf of the African-American community will first have to come through congressional legislation and then filter down to the local level. That's a rather slow process. Yes, there can be significant progress in the long-term but therein lay the problem. Black people in urban communities don't have a generation to wait for change to take place. They need those changes to take place within their lifetimes. They need to see the progress filtering down to the next generation at least as they leave this Earth, not for it to begin as the next generation comes into adulthood.

So, while I can give Donald Trump some credit - not alot, but some - I think his proposal misses the mark for this reason: He comes off taking an "us against them" approach from the very start by addressing those "peaceful Blacks who want to be safe in their homes" setting up division. Oh, I get that before corporate sponsorship will come into urban areas the streets need to be cleaned up and crime reduced, but when your first charge is to combat lawlessness instead of addressing why the problems in urban areas exist in the first place or not articulately in more detail how liberal policies have sold African-Americans short, you don't endear yourself to the African-American community. Instead, it looks at you sideways and wonder, "Is he for real or is he just pandering for my vote?". Moreover, by creating this divisiveness among Blacks in urban communities, Donald Trump all but ignores those African-Americans who live in the suburbs instead of addressing the Black race as a whole. Some Black folks like myself who don't live in 'the Hood' but instead live in the 'burbs' and work a 9-5 job likely won't give him much credit because in truth there's really nothing for us to grab hold of in his proposal. :shrug:

Many other Black people will slide over to him though. :shrug: We'll see.
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Objective Voice, you seem very reasonable. I don't agree with everything you post by any means, but you're clearly thoughtful, have principles, and are not a crank.

So I'm curious. What WOULD you like to hear from a Presidential candidate on the topic of race? I'm sure that, like most of us, race doesn't fully define your political views. But on that specific topic, what positions would your ideal candidate take?
 
trouble13 said:
From your perspective what needs to change to help those communities thrive.
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1. Skills development. Inner city high schools need to implement career development training programs and college-level courses to eligible juniors and seniors whereby they could use their new-found knowledge and skills to transition into good paying jobs after high school. Granted, corporations and small businesses alike may be reluctant to do this at first, but they have to understand that "out-sourcing" employment opportunities doesn't help lift inner city areas. Leaving them behind only helps destroy them.

2. Corporate investment in business development/entrepreneurship. The federal government does a decent job of fostering small business development through the Small Business Development program and/or SCORE, but corporate-America needs to do its share also. Right now, it's difficult for people who live in Black communities to get a small business off the ground for a host of problems. While I understand that corporate entities themselves won't invest in an area if it doesn't see the viability of earning a profit in troubled neighborhoods, corporations have to start providing avenues of hope to these communities. Otherwise, the drug cartels and gangs will (as is already the case in many urban neighborhoods across the country).

3. Community Pride. Goes without saying. Unfortunately, there's little hope of being prideful in a neighborhood when all you see is crime, death, and destruction. But that's where the people need to "take back the streets". That can only happen with a trustworthy partnership with local law enforcement and right now, the trust has eroded. It can be re-built, not with the heavier hand of law enforcement from the federal level as Donald Trump has advocated, but rather with local Police Chiefs, Mayors, community leaders, activist groups and private partners working together to bring about effective change.

Education and jobs training and development.

Corporate investments.

Better community relationships.

Change the dynamics in those three key areas and Black communities can and will thrive.
 
RetiredUSN said:
If the deep south is so racist, then why are 90% of the problems occurring in the north, east, and midwest?
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480
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Thanks - it wasn't an easy row to hoe.

You're from Alabama, so you'll appreciate all of what I'm about say here - when I spent some real time in the Philippines, I began to notice a few things, like the boiled peanuts they sell on the street. They even sell chitlins (they call it "chicharon bulaklak") on the street, and yeah it stinks to high heaven. They place a high importance on saying 'sir' and "ma'am" when speaking English, and "po" (the gender-neutral Tagalog equivalent of "sir" and "ma'am") whenever speaking to those who are older...and putting elderly in an "old folks home" is almost unheard-of. They were amazed to see how much I liked okra and catfish. In Manila, there's two Cajun restaurants(!) that I know of (you'd be surprised what you can find in a city of 15M people). In one of them, I saw on the menu "mustard greens sauteed with bacon and onions" - I got so excited because I'd grown up with that dish! My wife said to not get that, to let her cook it for me the next day. I reluctantly agreed, and so the next day we went to the palengke - the open-air market - and she showed me that they grow and sell honest-to-goodness mustard greens there - they call it 'mustasa'. So she got that and cooked it up at home and it's like Jerry Clower said - "If I'm lyin' I'm dyin'!" - I did have tears in my eyes when she set it in front of me.

I've seen mimosa trees there (they call them 'ipil'), and even a magnolia tree. We call the Deep South the "Bible Belt"...but they're a lot more religious than we Southerners are - majority Catholic. It seems like almost every other block has a little church or gathering place on it. I guess what I'm getting to is that the Philippines is a very foreign country...but it has so much in common with the Deep South not of today, but of my youth.

One last thing - I was walking through a furniture store and I happened to see an issue of "Southern Living" on a coffee table. "Where the heck did they get that?" I wondered...until I saw on the next table over an issue of "Northern Living"...and after looking at both of them, I realized that one referred to southern Manila, and the other to northern Manila...which I guess is sorta understandable when Metro Manila's about the size of the Delta, but has more people than MS, LA, AR, and AL all put together!

Take care!
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That kinda took me back.

I'm not a native of Alabama, but I've lived in Huntsville for the last 16 years and I love it! Huntsville, AL isn't "the deep south". There's more of a northern feel here because the city is so integrated with people from all walks of life who work, live and play here. Still, I can relate to alot of what you've said because my parents migrated from the south to the north and brought alot of their southern living across the Mason-Dixon line. :mrgreen:

I can also related to your story concerning the Philippines and how that island nation siphoned off aspects of southern comfort food and southern living and made it their own. Just goes to show diversity is everywhere if you know where to look and can be tolerated A-N-Y-W-H-E-R-E if you're willing to learn from one another and leave people to find common ways to peacefully co-exist.

You take care as well. :2wave:
 
RetiredUSN said:
If the deep south is so racist, then why are 90% of the problems occurring in the north, east, and midwest?
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Racism isn't just experienced in the deep south. It's experienced in every part of the country - north, south, east, west and mid-west. Why? Because racism is geographical.

It happens with people migrate from city to city, state to state. It happens because it's a learned behavior that tends to get ingrained into one's attitude towards others who might not be like them. But it can be unlearned.

Why are 90% of the problems occurring in the north, east, and mid-west you ask?

Over-crowding maybe? Corralling hundreds if not thousands of people into housing tenements for generations where they live one atop each other and leave them to essentially fend for themselves...yeah, that powder keg is bound to explode at some point.

Add it:

- White flight
- Low-skilled/low-wage jobs
- No education for a few generations
- Low education opportunities/expectations for at least 2 generations
- Poor education facilities for decades
- No or poor public transportation in densely populated urban areas
- Low tax collection (as it results from lost revenue on property/sales tax in the affected areas)
-- Low/no quality public services

Shall I continue or are you starting to get the picture?

This isn't a slave mentality in case you're wondering. Far from it. This is the history of the African-American community as it has been purposely allowed to slowly erode through legalism, i.e., Medicaid, TANF, housing laws, transportation laws, urban development rules, city ordinances, etc., etc. This list goes on and on.

But I'll say here again what I've said before: Black America needs to re-think what we do if WE are ever to over come.
 
Objective Voice said:
Racism isn't just experienced in the deep south. It's experienced in every part of the country - north, south, east, west and mid-west. Why? Because racism is geographical.

It happens with people migrate from city to city, state to state. It happens because it's a learned behavior that tends to get ingrained into one's attitude towards others who might not be like them. But it can be unlearned.

Why are 90% of the problems occurring in the north, east, and mid-west you ask?

Over-crowding maybe? Corralling hundreds if not thousands of people into housing tenements for generations where they live one atop each other and leave them to essentially fend for themselves...yeah, that powder keg is bound to explode at some point.

Add it:

- White flight
- Low-skilled/low-wage jobs
- No education for a few generations
- Low education opportunities/expectations for at least 2 generations
- Poor education facilities for decades
- No or poor public transportation in densely populated urban areas
- Low tax collection (as it results from lost revenue on property/sales tax in the affected areas)
-- Low/no quality public services

Shall I continue or are you starting to get the picture?

This isn't a slave mentality in case you're wondering. Far from it. This is the history of the African-American community as it has been purposely allowed to slowly erode through legalism, i.e., Medicaid, TANF, housing laws, transportation laws, urban development rules, city ordinances, etc., etc. This list goes on and on.

But I'll say here again what I've said before: Black America needs to re-think what we do if WE are ever to over come.
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They choose to live in those crowded places and deserve no pity. I came from just as bad a situation and got by quite nicely.
 
RetiredUSN said:
They choose to live in those crowded places and deserve no pity. I came from just as bad a situation and got by quite nicely.
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You make is sound a lot easier than it is

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 
Objective Voice said:
Racism isn't just experienced in the deep south. It's experienced in every part of the country - north, south, east, west and mid-west. Why? Because racism is geographical.

It happens with people migrate from city to city, state to state. It happens because it's a learned behavior that tends to get ingrained into one's attitude towards others who might not be like them. But it can be unlearned.

Why are 90% of the problems occurring in the north, east, and mid-west you ask?

Over-crowding maybe? Corralling hundreds if not thousands of people into housing tenements for generations where they live one atop each other and leave them to essentially fend for themselves...yeah, that powder keg is bound to explode at some point.

Add it:

- White flight
- Low-skilled/low-wage jobs
- No education for a few generations
- Low education opportunities/expectations for at least 2 generations
- Poor education facilities for decades
- No or poor public transportation in densely populated urban areas
- Low tax collection (as it results from lost revenue on property/sales tax in the affected areas)
-- Low/no quality public services

Shall I continue or are you starting to get the picture?

This isn't a slave mentality in case you're wondering. Far from it. This is the history of the African-American community as it has been purposely allowed to slowly erode through legalism, i.e., Medicaid, TANF, housing laws, transportation laws, urban development rules, city ordinances, etc., etc. This list goes on and on.

But I'll say here again what I've said before: Black America needs to re-think what we do if WE are ever to over come.
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What does black america need to rethink because while i agree with pretty much everything you said. Balack america needs to acknowledge their role in exacerbating the problem. I camt be your brother if you wont wont accept me as your brother and if your gonna meet me asvyour enemy than you just made me your enemy.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 
Objective Voice said:
Racism isn't just experienced in the deep south. It's experienced in every part of the country - north, south, east, west and mid-west. Why? Because racism is geographical.

It happens with people migrate from city to city, state to state. It happens because it's a learned behavior that tends to get ingrained into one's attitude towards others who might not be like them. But it can be unlearned.

Why are 90% of the problems occurring in the north, east, and mid-west you ask?

Over-crowding maybe? Corralling hundreds if not thousands of people into housing tenements for generations where they live one atop each other and leave them to essentially fend for themselves...yeah, that powder keg is bound to explode at some point.

Add it:

- White flight
- Low-skilled/low-wage jobs
- No education for a few generations
- Low education opportunities/expectations for at least 2 generations
- Poor education facilities for decades
- No or poor public transportation in densely populated urban areas
- Low tax collection (as it results from lost revenue on property/sales tax in the affected areas)
-- Low/no quality public services

Shall I continue or are you starting to get the picture?

This isn't a slave mentality in case you're wondering. Far from it. This is the history of the African-American community as it has been purposely allowed to slowly erode through legalism, i.e., Medicaid, TANF, housing laws, transportation laws, urban development rules, city ordinances, etc., etc. This list goes on and on.

But I'll say here again what I've said before: Black America needs to re-think what we do if WE are ever to over come.
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And what if anything have generations, and in some cases top down democrat control of the worst of places in America that need these changes have they done to earn your loyal support? It sounds like Trump is right, what the hell have you got to lose?
 
trouble13 said:
What does black america need to rethink because while i agree with pretty much everything you said. Black America needs to acknowledge their role in exacerbating the problem. I can't be your brother if you wont wont accept me as your brother and if your gonna meet me asvyour enemy than you just made me your enemy.
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- Understand how you contribute to the chaos
- Learn from the mistakes of others and/or those who came before you (i.e., brothers, sisters, mother, father, friends, relatives, civic leaders, etc.)
- Take responsibility for your own actions

Now, I think it's fair and very appropriate to acknowledge the history of oppression, mistreatment and injustice that has taken place in this country against African-Americans and other minorities. Just as we (Blacks) need to take responsibility for our actions, (White) America also need to acknowledge how centuries of involuntary servitude has negatively impacted those who suffered abuse and injustice today and at least try to understand how such has handicapped the African-American community as a whole. I get the arguments on "victimization" and "the slave mentality" and how as Black people we need to shed that mind-set, but for many of us it's difficult when you look around you(r world) and you don't see many, if any, opportunities to rise above your present circumstances. I consider myself one of the luck few.

I didn't grow up in the projects. I lived in a single-family home in a middle-class neighborhood. My parents worked (dad, full-time; mom, part-time occasionally but considered herself to be a stay-at-home mom) and instilled strong work ethics within us. Four out five of my siblings (myself included) graduated high school with honors. Each graduate could have gone to college (2 applied and were accepted to local colleges), but only one attended. The other, myself, choose instead to join the Navy. My parents pushed education especially my father who only had a 6th grade education. My mom was determined to get her high school diploma and achieved that goals a few years before her death. So, education was very important. It's something I've pushed unto my kids because "the more you know, the more you grow" and "when you know better, you do better". I tell my kids (all but one are adults now) "you don't want to be like me; you want to be better than me" because I know better than they that for every successive generation that does better than the last, the chances of the next generation to overcome obstacles of the past and succeed increases greatly. I live a better life than my father before me. Hopefully, my children will live better than I.

Racism is less a part of their lives than it was in mine. While I've experienced forms of racism myself, it was nothing compared to what my parents went through. So, with each generation things do get better. I believe that will continue despite what's taking place in this country today. People just need to stop being stupid and take the time to listen to and learn from each other.

I've digressed enough and I know the commentary after the three bullet points was more than you asked for, but I felt it important for you (and the readers) to understand I don't approach race issues from a position of hate nor militancy. I just get tired of White folks trying to lump us all in the same group of bad players when not every Black person lives like some thug. Many of us are very hard working, respectful people who try living righteous, upstanding lives. I does anger me, however, when the race baitors speak in generalities without looking at the underlying causes of what many within Black communities are going through.
 
j-mac said:
And what if anything have generations, and in some cases top down democrat control of the worst of places in America that need these changes have they done to earn your loyal support? It sounds like Trump is right, what the hell have you got to lose?
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Since I don't live in those areas, I can't speak to that issue. All I can tell you is where I live we've had Democrat and Republican mayors over the course of the last 16 years and both have done well overall.
 
Objective Voice said:
- Understand how you contribute to the chaos
- Learn from the mistakes of others and/or those who came before you (i.e., brothers, sisters, mother, father, friends, relatives, civic leaders, etc.)
- Take responsibility for your own actions

Now, I think it's fair and very appropriate to acknowledge the history of oppression, mistreatment and injustice that has taken place in this country against African-Americans and other minorities. Just as we (Blacks) need to take responsibility for our actions, (White) America also need to acknowledge how centuries of involuntary servitude has negatively impacted those who suffered abuse and injustice today and at least try to understand how such has handicapped the African-American community as a whole. I get the arguments on "victimization" and "the slave mentality" and how as Black people we need to shed that mind-set, but for many of us it's difficult when you look around you(r world) and you don't see many, if any, opportunities to rise above your present circumstances. I consider myself one of the luck few.

I didn't grow up in the projects. I lived in a single-family home in a middle-class neighborhood. My parents worked (dad, full-time; mom, part-time occasionally but considered herself to be a stay-at-home mom) and instilled strong work ethics within us. Four out five of my siblings (myself included) graduated high school with honors. Each graduate could have gone to college (2 applied and were accepted to local colleges), but only one attended. The other, myself, choose instead to join the Navy. My parents pushed education especially my father who only had a 6th grade education. My mom was determined to get her high school diploma and achieved that goals a few years before her death. So, education was very important. It's something I've pushed unto my kids because "the more you know, the more you grow" and "when you know better, you do better". I tell my kids (all but one are adults now) "you don't want to be like me; you want to be better than me" because I know better than they that for every successive generation that does better than the last, the chances of the next generation to overcome obstacles of the past and succeed increases greatly. I live a better life than my father before me. Hopefully, my children will live better than I.

Racism is less a part of their lives than it was in mine. While I've experienced forms of racism myself, it was nothing compared to what my parents went through. So, with each generation things do get better. I believe that will continue despite what's taking place in this country today. People just need to stop being stupid and take the time to listen to and learn from each other.

I've digressed enough and I know the commentary after the three bullet points was more than you asked for, but I felt it important for you (and the readers) to understand I don't approach race issues from a position of hate nor militancy. I just get tired of White folks trying to lump us all in the same group of bad players when not every Black person lives like some thug. Many of us are very hard working, respectful people who try living righteous, upstanding lives. I does anger me, however, when the race baitors speak in generalities without looking at the underlying causes of what many within Black communities are going through.
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I know many black people just like yourself and i dont like the generalixations either. All blacks are not thugs and all whites are not racists. Both those groups are in the minority they just happen to make more noise than the rest of us so it seems like their is more of them than are.

Not to digress but ot reminds me of this cop hate thing. We dont remember the ten good things a cop did for us but the one bad tjing one done we never forget.

White people remember that 1 bad experience rhey had involving a black and blacks remember that time tje white person screwed them over. I think its j7st human nature to remember the bad stuff more than the good stuff

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 
trouble13 said:
I know many black people just like yourself and i dont like the generalixations either. All blacks are not thugs and all whites are not racists. Both those groups are in the minority they just happen to make more noise than the rest of us so it seems like their is more of them than are.

Not to digress but ot reminds me of this cop hate thing. We dont remember the ten good things a cop did for us but the one bad tjing one done we never forget.

White people remember that 1 bad experience rhey had involving a black and blacks remember that time tje white person screwed them over. I think its j7st human nature to remember the bad stuff more than the good stuff

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
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There's an old Navy saying (Glen Contrarian may remember this ;) ): "Oh, Aw, s**t ruins all the 'at a boys!"

All it takes is one negative event to overshadow all the good that came before.
 
It all started with LBJs Great Society, the black culture, family structure and overall well being has been in decline ever since. Like LBJ said, he'll have those 'n' voting for dems for 200 years.......amen brother.
 
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