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Police union: Clinton snubbed us

Of the 325 K members, estimate how many are lazy, corrupt & brutal???

Since police unions in his eyes exist to protect "lazy, corrupt, and brutal" police officers and draw from that base, I assumed he meant most or all of the FOP's membership, but I'd like an answer to the same question. How many? :confused:
 
It is indicative of where their priorities are. Police unions are not high on their priority list. Republicans are told the same when it comes to campaigns avoiding targeted campaign stops or filling out position statements.

To turn it around on Republicans, the conduct of police unions as of late hasn't entirely been deserving of respect. Furthermore, one could make the somewhat reasonable statement that bending over backwards for unions is not ordinarily in the DNA of a Republican, but is for a Democrat. At least they wised up on some unions. Or at least, that's how I look at it. I'm skeptical of unions.
I think you should look at the SCOTUS ruling, IIRC it was around 89 or so. It made it almost impossible to have a successful conviction of an LEO on a killing.
The Govts, State- local have set up the thin blue line with contracts that impede discipline.
Not all the blame is with the union, it is with the people who signed off as well. Next Police- Firefighters and such are a strong voting block in many cities. They are highly organized and get out the vote for those they support
 
Since police unions in his eyes exist to protect "lazy, corrupt, and brutal" police officers and draw from that base, I assumed he meant most or all of the FOP's membership, but I'd like an answer to the same question. How many? :confused:

I watched a lot of the Dem Conv. When that officer speaking was drowned out by BLM chants, with no counter chant. That cost the Dems.
 
I don't like this false choice narrative that some are pushing. It's either BLM or Cops. That's just BS that people want to use to divide us all.

Are you kiddding me? There are few groups said to be more at odds.
 
I don't like this false choice narrative that some are pushing. It's either BLM or Cops. That's just BS that people want to use to divide us all.

False or pure politics
DNC: Meet The Mothers Of The Movement

Sybrina Fulton, Lesley McSpadden and other “Mothers of the Movement” will speak Tuesday night at the Democratic National Convention. These mothers of Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Sandra Bland and other African-American men and women who died at the hands of police, in police custody or from gun violence will tell their stories to millions of Americans.

The focus on the Black Lives Matter movement and the deaths of black Americans at the hands of police is in contrast to the Republican National Convention, where speakers used the phrases “Blue Lives Matter” and “All Lives Matter.”

In four years since the last convention, the movement has grown from nonexistent to active in dozens of cities nationwide. Black Lives Matter protesters regularly lead marches all over the country, most recently after two black men were killed on camera in Minnesota and Louisiana. Some of these women have already appeared with Hillary Clinton on the campaign trail.

Then this

DNC minute's silence for fallen police interrupted by 'Black Lives Matter' chants | Daily Mail Online

Black Lives Matter chants interrupt one minute silence for fallen police officers - led by their grieving relatives - at the DNC

Dallas Sheriff Lupe Valdez was paying tribute to cops killed in line of duty
She then asked for a moment of quiet reflection from the delegates
However, some were heard shouting the controversial slogan
Valdez ignored the jeers and then introduced families of murdered officers

Now we do know that at Conventions they have people on the floor to work the crowd and if needed even remove them

After this occurred, did the Clinton campaign make any comments on this. Not that i could find.
This is no different than the comments that Rump made about the Khan family.

BLM is from what I understand a loose affiliation. Some stress peaceful, others have no issue with violence.
BLM in the end wears all violence perpetrated under their name. They need to take control otherwise their message will be hijacked by violence
if they do not kick out, strongly disavow all violence, they wear it.
 
Are you kiddding me? There are few groups said to be more at odds.

Their are assholes who want it that way who are trying to beat the drums of a race-war. But it is a false narrative. You can support both.
 
Of the 325 K members, estimate how many are lazy, corrupt & brutal???

Having all three traits perhaps a dozen - having any one of them perhaps 3K.
 
Their are assholes who want it that way who are trying to beat the drums of a race-war. But it is a false narrative. You can support both.

I can't support Michael Brown or Freddie Gray as prime examples of police racism.
 
I can't support Michael Brown or Freddie Gray as prime examples of police racism.

I'm simply saying that it's possible to be for police and against police brutality. Therefore it is a false choice narrative to tell people that have to pick one or the other.
 
I'm simply saying that it's possible to be for police and against police brutality. Therefore it is a false choice narrative to tell people that have to pick one or the other.

BLM has a much, much wider (and more radical?) agenda than ending police brutality. Read their demands and see if even you could support them.

We demand reparations for past and continuing harms. The government, responsible corporations and other institutions that have profited off of the harm they have inflicted on Black people — from colonialism to slavery through food and housing redlining, mass incarceration, and surveillance — must repair the harm done. This includes:

Reparations for the systemic denial of access to high quality educational opportunities in the form of full and free access for all Black people (including undocumented and currently and formerly incarcerated people) to lifetime education including: free access and open admissions to public community colleges and universities, technical education (technology, trade and agricultural), educational support programs, retroactive forgiveness of student loans, and support for lifetime learning programs.

Reparations for the continued divestment from, discrimination toward and exploitation of our communities in the form of a guaranteed minimum livable income for all Black people, with clearly articulated corporate regulations.

Reparations for the wealth extracted from our communities through environmental racism, slavery, food apartheid, housing discrimination and racialized capitalism in the form of corporate and government reparations focused on healing ongoing physical and mental trauma, and ensuring our access and control of food sources, housing and land.

Reparations for the cultural and educational exploitation, erasure, and extraction of our communities in the form of mandated public school curriculums that critically examine the political, economic, and social impacts of colonialism and slavery, and funding to support, build, preserve, and restore cultural assets and sacred sites to ensure the recognition and honoring of our collective struggles and triumphs.

Legislation at the federal and state level that requires the United States to acknowledge the lasting impacts of slavery, establish and execute a plan to address those impacts. This includes the immediate passage of H.R.40, the “Commission to Study Reparation Proposals for African-Americans Act” or subsequent versions which call for reparations remedies.

Black Lives Matter Reveals Platform Focusing On Six Demands
 
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OK, what are your estimates?

Case in point - Ferguson- police used to generate revenue for the city- Who does that target- the poor with traffic/vehicle infractions- mainly Black- Pure chicken **** and alienates the poor- Black population
Larger cities- The report that came out recently stated that will killing of Black V Whites was lower for Blacks - it found the LEO street Justice was common and much higher for Blacks. Again alienates the Black population
Far to many of States - City = County Police Depts have been investigated by the Feds. And they found a number of issues. From training, to targeting, to violations of Constitutional rights. And these were mainly against the Black populations.

Then you have the Thin Blue Line who defend even the worst offenses by LEO's. Look at the killing the other year in Chicago,
So truthfully I cannot make an estimate. i can state the evidence of LEO- at the State- City- County - under their leadership have violated the laws, the Constitution and have alienated Black Americans.
 
I always have to ask this question: Reparations for what?

There's no black person alive today that was ever a slave.

Reparaions for simply being born black, of course. The better question is who must pay them and how. A class action lawsuit must define both the plaintiffs and the defendents.
 

I will bet everything that I own and things that other people own that Trump did not write this document. There's too much understanding of our Federal government and too many so-called "principled" conservative positions adhered to in whoever wrote this.

As for the topic at hand though, I'm not sure that I agree with these policy positions of the FOP. I may comment more on this later.
 
Don't be disingenuous. You wrote the following:



Those aren't my words, they're yours. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence has duly noted your smear of the FOP membership "base," which at 325,000 members of local and state lodges around the country is substantial. Or perhaps you can clarify how you define the term "base." What is the FOP's "base"? I define it as the rank-and-file membership--police officers. If it's not that, then it isn't much of a base, is it? Unless you claim there are just A LOT of "lazy, corrupt, and brutal" police officers? :confused: Can you give a figure? I'm guessing not.

That's right. I'm assuming English isn't your first language. The union does protect officers who should be fired. Officers who are doing their job and serving the community don't need the union. So, why do they join the union? The union spends a lot of time trying to convince officers that they might need them. But even more there is the pressure from the pro-union officers to force people to join. When I refused to join the union some officers refused to cover me on calls. Officers took my reports out of the in-box and destroyed them so I'd get in trouble for not doing the reports. And, they loved to file bogus complaints. Fortunately, most people, not you, of course, recognize that unions are extortionists and thrive on threats, violence, and coercion.

Sadly, it was just easier for officer to pay the damned dues and then try their best to ignore the union.
 
Of the 325 K members, estimate how many are lazy, corrupt & brutal???

It would obviously vary from place to place. I'd say in our city it was between 5% and 10%. Very few were brutal. A few more wanted to be corrupt. More were lazy or incompetent.

I asked one of the union officers why, whenever the union wanted to threaten me they sent three officers. I asked if they were that afraid. He laughed and said, "No, it's our training. If things get out of hand and something happens it three of them testifying against one of you." Isn't that sweet.

And, one of our union stalwarts had a wife who worked in a title company and had a list of properties delinquent on their property tax. The union thugs picked a property where the building was basically sound, the owner lived far out of state, and they filed for a title on the building and moved in. They didn't want to pester power company so they just hooked up the electricity, bypassing the meter, and opened up the building as the union hall. When the owner contacted them they refused to leave and he filed suit. I wanted criminal charges filed but the person who was then chief was terrified of the union so they moved out of the house and nothing else happened.

And one night when I was on night shift a group of union officers stuck a letter in my face. "Sign this." I started reading and one said, "Just sign it. Everybody is signing it." It was a letter asking the weak chief to change the department regulations so officers could get free meals in restaurants. I said, "Not signing. This is wrong." One of the guys said, "I can explain it." I laughed and said, "I've spent 20 years listening to pedophiles, rapists, and child abusers explain it. Doesn't make it right, does it?" Later i asked someone what was happening to the letter and they said, "Most of the guys wouldn't sign it." The ones who did sign it were all staunch union members.

No, sorry. I understand some people are union people. It's a form of organized crime that is not only legal but has accomplices in the government.

And there is no way there was a vote of 325,000 members on either the questionnaire or whether or not to endorse. One of the bitter battles the unions and the Democrats are fighting is for unions to be allowed to donate money to politicians without consulting with members.
 
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I will bet everything that I own and things that other people own that Trump did not write this document. There's too much understanding of our Federal government and too many so-called "principled" conservative positions adhered to in whoever wrote this.

As for the topic at hand though, I'm not sure that I agree with these policy positions of the FOP. I may comment more on this later.
Why couldn't Hillary get a henchman to similarly write a coherent response?
 
Well of course they do. But this topic is about police so I was addressing that. And I defy you to find anything in their demands that says "We hate cops."

BLM wants black youth immune from arrest:

An immediate end to the criminalization and dehumanization of Black youth across all areas of society including, but not limited to; our nation’s justice and education systems, social service agencies, and media and pop culture. This includes an end to zero-tolerance school policies and arrests of students, the removal of police from schools, and the reallocation of funds from police and punitive school discipline practices to restorative services.

Don't hate - eliminate. ;)

EDIT

The "community" power to hire, fire, discipline and set pay for police:

Direct democratic community control of local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies, ensuring that communities most harmed by destructive policing have the power to hire and fire officers, determine disciplinary action, control budgets and policies, and subpoena relevant agency information.
 
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Why couldn't Hillary get a henchman to similarly write a coherent response?

I didn't say it was coherent, I just said it displayed some understanding of how our constitution works. Towards the end though, it got worse and started to sound more Trump-like with vacuous jests. I simply said it was more coherent and knowledgeable than Trump normally is.

As for what Hillary does or doesn't do, I don't really care. I'm saving my energy for dealing with her when she gets into power.
 
I'm assuming English isn't your first language.

Really? Forgive me if I smell just a hint of sarcasm. :roll:

What I understand you saying is the FOP (and an affiliate of this organization is the union or bargaining unit you dealt with, correct?) pulls from a base of "lazy, corrupt, and brutal" police officers. And yet you indicated that in your community perhaps 5-10% of the officers fit that bill (or, at least, the lazy and corrupt part). But, based on your personal experience and opinion, the other 90-95% are coerced into joining the union by that small minority? :confused: Okay, I won't debate that point any further. You win. :surrender

But who then does represent rank-and-file law enforcement officers if it ins't the FOP? You see, the important point I take from this is she snubbed them, and not because she thinks the FOP's endorsement is unrepresentative of its membership or because she hates cops but because it was a choice between the Black Lives Matter movement and law enforcement and the cops were going to lose. So I think her motives are based on political considerations as to where she thinks the most votes are for her. We saw a hint of where she and her party stand on this from the DNC's choices of speakers at its convention.
 
BLM wants black youth immune from arrest:



Don't hate - eliminate. ;)

EDIT

The "community" power to hire, fire, discipline and set pay for police:

OK.. we are just going to talk past each other apparently. You don't like BLM, I get it. But you haven't made any case about how BLM supposedly hates cops.
 
I certainly hope Clinton replies to the questionnaire. I am still studying the PDF, but it does not appear Trump's answers to the Union rate an endorsement.
 
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