Police Shoot Unarmed Man With His Hands Up

Vox · Jul 22, 2016

Bucky said:
Blacks commit the same (likely less) amount of crimes as white. Not for one second do I believe blacks are committing more crimes than any other race.

You are trying hard to gloss over the fact that blacks are only 13 percent of the total population as opposed to 64 percent white......thus blacks do a far higher percentage of all crime based on their population than whites.....or ANY race, for that matter.

jaeger19 · Jul 22, 2016

VanceMack said:
Thats is quite simply an unsupported lie that you are regurgitating. It is as empty and dishonest as "hands up dont shoot".

"Peter Moskos, assistant professor at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice at the City University of New York, decided to use figures from the website Killed by Police.
Based on that data, Mr. Moskos reported that roughly 49 percent of those killed by officers from May 2013 to April 2015 were white, while 30 percent were black. He also found that 19 percent were Hispanic and 2 percent were Asian and other races. His results, posted last week on his blog Cop in the Hood, arrived with several caveats, notably that 25 percent of the website’s data, which is drawn largely from news reports, failed to show the race of the person killed. Killed by Police lists every death, justified or not, including those in which the officer had been wounded or acted in self-defense."

Now do the match. A minority racial percentage of the nations population commits a significantly higher number of crimes than all other racial groups and as such are significantly more in contact with law enforcement than their statistical numbers SHOULD indicate...and yet the rate at which they are shot are significantly lower by percentage of contact.

Police kill more whites than blacks, but minority deaths generate more outrage: analysis - Washington Times

Yeah not true.

The Bureau of Justice Statistics periodically surveys the public to study police-citizen interactions. Its most recent report in 2008 found that white, black and Hispanic drivers were stopped at similar rates by police. However, black drivers were about three times as likely as white drivers to be searched during a traffic stop. (When a search occurred, evidence was found in only 8.4 percent of the cases, but the report doesn't break that down by race.)

The Sentencing Project, an advocacy group, has looked at that breakdown using 2013 profiling data posted in 2014 by Missouri's attorney general's office. It found that when a white driver was stopped in Ferguson, there was a 7 percent chance the car would be searched and a 34 percent chance that something would be found. But when a black driver was stopped, the search rate was significantly higher — 12 percent — and the odds of actually finding contraband were significantly lower (22 percent).

Another: From The study, “The Science of Justice: Race, Arrests, and Police Use of Force

But when force is used, a new study has found, the race of the person being stopped by officers is significant.

The study of thousands of use-of-force episodes from police departments across the nation has concluded what many people have long thought, but which could not be proved because of a lack of data: African-Americans are far more likely than whites and other groups to be the victims of use of force by the police, even when racial disparities in crime are taken into account.

The report, to be released Friday by the Center for Policing Equity, a New York-based think tank, took three years to assemble and largely refutes explanations from some police officials that blacks are more likely to be subjected to police force because they are more frequently involved in criminal activity.

Top Cat · Jul 22, 2016

Bucky said:
Blacks commit the same (likely less) amount of crimes as white. Not for one second do I believe blacks are committing more crimes than any other race.

Surely you have statistics to support your argument?

Hatuey · Jul 22, 2016

Vox said:
No, you can't proceed because you have no knowledge of or experience with firearms.

Says the guy who thinks a 5-11 trigger-pull is 'a touch' and then tried to argue that the number of bullets told him which firearms were being used. You've lost the argument.

RetiredUSN · Jul 22, 2016

Bucky said:
Blacks commit the same (likely less) amount of crimes as white. Not for one second do I believe blacks are committing more crimes than any other race.

OK..... you are either being stubborn, or willfully ignorant while trying to make a argument?

apdst · Jul 22, 2016

Bucky said:
Blacks commit the same (likely less) amount of crimes as white. Not for one second do I believe blacks are committing more crimes than any other race.

Over 90% of black murder victims are killed by black murderers. So, you would be wrong. Your insistence on ignoring reality is doing more harm to the black community than all the racists in history ever dreamed.

If you choose to sit back and turn a blind eye to the genocide, then that's on you.

Captain America · Jul 22, 2016

Top Cat said:
Surely you have statistics to support your argument?

Ol' Bucky is not taking ratio in to consideration. There are no statistics that supports his argument so, no. He cannot produce any. Unless he intends to throw ratio and proportion out the window.

It’s true that around 13 per cent of Americans are black, according to the latest estimates from the US Census Bureau.

And yes, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, black offenders committed 52 per cent of homicides recorded in the data between 1980 and 2008. Only 45 per cent of the offenders were white. Homicide is a broader category than “murder” but let’s not split hairs. <snip>

FactCheck: do black Americans commit more crime?

Caine · Jul 22, 2016

Northern Light said:
In a lot of countries, it would be at least 2nd degree murder.

But the blue line of protection means that murder gets excused as "bad training".

Dude isn't dead.

Under what statute do you get charged with murder when someone isn't dead?

VanceMack · Jul 22, 2016

jaeger19 said:
Yeah not true.

Another: From The study, “The Science of Justice: Race, Arrests, and Police Use of Force

Awesome...you quoted a hactivist site...thats sure to not confirm your bias.

dirtpoorchris · Jul 22, 2016

Vox · Jul 22, 2016

However, black drivers were about three times as likely as white drivers to be searched during a traffic stop.

Of course.

The cops want arrests and they get frustrated stopping the boring white folks who hardly ever have any guns, stolen goods, drugs, or anything.

What the hell would you do in their place?

I'm thrilled to death that they focus on getting the criminals off the streets and into prison where they belong.

Caine · Jul 22, 2016

Vox said:
Of course.

The cops want arrests and they get frustrated stopping the boring white folks who hardly ever have any guns, stolen goods, drugs, or anything.

What the hell would you do in their place?

I'm thrilled to death that they focus on getting the criminals off the streets and into prison where they belong.

Dude.... you are basically saying all black people are criminals. While there are a vast many reasons why "black drivers are three times as likely as white drivers to be searched" that don't have to do with racism or profiling, you aren't doing police any favors by acting like they are in fact a bunch of racists.

If you aren't a cop, or haven't been a cop, I'd appreciate it if you stop trying to speak for them.

Vox · Jul 23, 2016

Caine said:
Dude.... you are basically saying all black people are criminals. While there are a vast many reasons why "black drivers are three times as likely as white drivers to be searched" that don't have to do with racism or profiling, you aren't doing police any favors by acting like they are in fact a bunch of racists.

If you aren't a cop, or haven't been a cop, I'd appreciate it if you stop trying to speak for them.

I find it astounding that you immediately see this as racism. Absolutely.........Astounding.

And wrong. Totally wrong.

It is......instead......merely mining the mother lode instead of wasting time with the weak veins of ore that are those boring white people.

Police stop young black men because they are a rich source of arrests. They are usually on their way to or on their way back from an assortment of potential criminal acts.

Think about it. Police would not DO THIS if it didn't produce. If these young black men were not so often criminals they would be ignored like the boring white people.....and the cop would be having more donuts.

And they are not stopping black grandmas and grandpas or soccer moms, are they?

No......they're stopping young black men......and mostly the ones wearing the obvious and currently popular provocative styles of dressing themselves.

It's NOT color profiling......it's legitimate criminal profiling--the same kind the Israelis use in their airports so successfully.

And, let me tell you......I say, THANK YOU, Police!!!

Hit that mother lode!!!

Mine that rich vein and process it and store the gold away where it BELONGS!!!

I APPROVE. I want a life free of drug-addled thugs sticking Glocks in my face.

While it is true that there may be a few nasty racist cops out there stopping anything with a black or brown face.......they are indeed few......and they should be weeded out and eliminated.

Dude......it's not about race, it's about public safety.

Caine · Jul 23, 2016

Vox said:
I find it astounding that you immediately see this as racism. Absolutely.........Astounding.

Please quote where I said this, because I would be the last person to jump on the racism train. So yeah, quote where I said this case had anything to do with racism.

It is......instead......merely mining the mother lode instead of wasting time with the weak veins of ore that are those boring white people.

Police stop young black men because they are a rich source of arrests. They are usually on their way to or on their way back from an assortment of potential criminal acts.

Your statements, on the other hand, are quite bigoted. They imply that black people are typically committing crime. They also imply that police view this the same way, which is extremely bigoted, even potentially racist. Your average police officer doesn't think like this, and I would appretitate, as I have stated before, if you'd stop trying to speak for them.

Think about it. Police would not DO THIS if it didn't produce. If these young black men were not so often criminals they would be ignored like the boring white people.....and the cop would be having more donuts.

Again, more baseless idiocy when it comes to your ability to judge a police officers actions and intent. The donut jab is especially stupid, since if you knew anything about cops you'd know that this stereotype doesn't match the reality of the modern police officer.

Vox · Jul 23, 2016

Your statements, on the other hand, are quite bigoted. They imply that black people are typically committing crime.

Note that I said "young black men." NOT "Black People."

They are indeed typically committing crime. Crime statistics resoundingly verify it.

Just the fact that young black men (who are about 7% of the overall population) kill 43% of the police officers killed--absolutely hammers that point home. (FBI stats.)

The rest of your post was a sort of loose expression of angry opinion.....and is noted as such.

Bucky · Jul 23, 2016

VanceMack said:
Thats is quite simply an unsupported lie that you are regurgitating. It is as empty and dishonest as "hands up dont shoot".

"Peter Moskos, assistant professor at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice at the City University of New York, decided to use figures from the website Killed by Police.
Based on that data, Mr. Moskos reported that roughly 49 percent of those killed by officers from May 2013 to April 2015 were white, while 30 percent were black. He also found that 19 percent were Hispanic and 2 percent were Asian and other races. His results, posted last week on his blog Cop in the Hood, arrived with several caveats, notably that 25 percent of the website’s data, which is drawn largely from news reports, failed to show the race of the person killed. Killed by Police lists every death, justified or not, including those in which the officer had been wounded or acted in self-defense."

Now do the match. A minority racial percentage of the nations population commits a significantly higher number of crimes than all other racial groups and as such are significantly more in contact with law enforcement than their statistical numbers SHOULD indicate...and yet the rate at which they are shot are significantly lower by percentage of contact.

Police kill more whites than blacks, but minority deaths generate more outrage: analysis - Washington Times

What I have posted is a fact:

http://policingequity.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/CPE_SoJ_Race-Arrests-UoF_2016-07-08-1130.pdf

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/08/u...e-use-of-force-is-more-likely-for-blacks.html

Police are more likely to use excessive force against blacks than any other race, simply because they are black.

When you are denying facts the conclusion is quite clear: Those that deny that the police are targeting blacks are in fact part of the problem. It shouldn't be surprising the majority of blacks in this country have a unfavorable position of the police.

Bucky · Jul 23, 2016

Top Cat said:
Surely you have statistics to support your argument?

I am arguing against the racist notion that blacks commit more crimes than whites.

If you want to defend otherwise what makes you believe blacks commit more crimes than whites? Is it in their DNA?

Hogwash. Blacks are targeted through illegal racial profiling and racial quotas by the police. Race shouldn't be a factor but the per ponderous of evidence suggests otherwise.

mike2810 · Jul 23, 2016

Bucky said:
What I have posted is a fact:

http://policingequity.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/CPE_SoJ_Race-Arrests-UoF_2016-07-08-1130.pdf

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/08/u...e-use-of-force-is-more-likely-for-blacks.html

When you are denying facts the conclusion is quite clear: Those that deny that the police are targeting blacks are in fact part of the problem. It shouldn't be surprising the majority of blacks in this country have a unfavorable position of the police.

That is not much of a rebuttal to what VanceMack posted (598).
Or are you choosing to ignore the fact that more whites are killed by LEO's than black's.?

New DOJ Statistics on Race and Violent Crime | American Renaissance

"First, we find that during the 2012/2013 period, blacks committed an average of 560,600 violent crimes against whites, whereas whites committed only 99,403 such crimes against blacks. This means blacks were the attackers in 84.9 percent of the violent crimes involving blacks and whites. This figure is consistent with reports from 2008, the last year DOJ released similar statistics"

I also find in interesting you believe those who disagree with you are part of the problem. The main issue I have with your posts you seem to be saying all police are targeting blacks.
That is not a fact.

Also does that include black LEO's? Are they targeting blacks?

Bucky · Jul 23, 2016

mike2810 said:
That is not much of a rebuttal to what VanceMack posted (598).
Or are you choosing to ignore the fact that more whites are killed by LEO's than black's.?

New DOJ Statistics on Race and Violent Crime | American Renaissance

"First, we find that during the 2012/2013 period, blacks committed an average of 560,600 violent crimes against whites, whereas whites committed only 99,403 such crimes against blacks. This means blacks were the attackers in 84.9 percent of the violent crimes involving blacks and whites. This figure is consistent with reports from 2008, the last year DOJ released similar statistics"

I also find in interesting you believe those who disagree with you are part of the problem. The main issue I have with your posts you seem to be saying all police are targeting blacks.
That is not a fact.

Also does that include black LEO's? Are they targeting blacks?

The study of thousands of use-of-force episodes from police departments across the nation has concluded what many people have long thought, but which could not be proved because of a lack of data: African-Americans are far more likely than whites and other groups to be the victims of use of force by the police, even when racial disparities in crime are taken into account.

The report took three years to assemble and largely refutes explanations from some police officials that blacks are more likely to be subjected to police force because they are more frequently involved in criminal activity.

The argument is a fact: It is a systematic problem, not an isolated one.

Top Cat · Jul 23, 2016

Bucky said:
I am arguing against the racist notion that blacks commit more crimes than whites.

If you want to defend otherwise what makes you believe blacks commit more crimes than whites? Is it in their DNA?

Hogwash. Blacks are targeted through illegal racial profiling and racial quotas by the police. Race shouldn't be a factor but the per ponderous of evidence suggests otherwise.

So you have nothing as usual. Got it.

VanceMack · Jul 23, 2016

Bucky said:
What I have posted is a fact:

http://policingequity.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/CPE_SoJ_Race-Arrests-UoF_2016-07-08-1130.pdf

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/08/u...e-use-of-force-is-more-likely-for-blacks.html

When you are denying facts the conclusion is quite clear: Those that deny that the police are targeting blacks are in fact part of the problem. It shouldn't be surprising the majority of blacks in this country have a unfavorable position of the police.

No...it is a lie...one you are apparently quite comfortable repeating.

Bucky · Jul 23, 2016

VanceMack said:
No...it is a lie...one you are apparently quite comfortable repeating.

You refuse to see the problem between the police and their animosity towards blacks. Hell has a special place for those that simply play the role of a spectator.

VanceMack · Jul 24, 2016

Bucky said:
You refuse to see the problem between the police and their animosity towards blacks. Hell has a special place for those that simply play the role of a spectator.

I reckon that special place is next to the spot for bigots and liars that continue to press false data.

mike2810 · Jul 24, 2016

Bucky said:
The argument is a fact: It is a systematic problem, not an isolated one.

and how does your statement refute what I posted?

Is it a lie that more whites have been shot by LEO than black? Yes or No
Is it a lie that blacks commit more crimes against whites than whites against blacks? Yes or No.

Is the DOJ data wrong? Yes or No?

Do minority LEO's target blacks?

I will give you this. Yes it is a fact someone made an argument of lethal force used against blacks as you have quoted.

It is a fact, that studies have been made to show what I posted are facts.

The question is, is your argument valid? With data showing differences, imo, your argument is not one to stand your ground on.

Manc Skipper · Jul 24, 2016

mike2810 said:
That is not much of a rebuttal to what VanceMack posted (598).
Or are you choosing to ignore the fact that more whites are killed by LEO's than black's.?

New DOJ Statistics on Race and Violent Crime | American Renaissance

"First, we find that during the 2012/2013 period, blacks committed an average of 560,600 violent crimes against whites, whereas whites committed only 99,403 such crimes against blacks. This means blacks were the attackers in 84.9 percent of the violent crimes involving blacks and whites. This figure is consistent with reports from 2008, the last year DOJ released similar statistics"

I also find in interesting you believe those who disagree with you are part of the problem. The main issue I have with your posts you seem to be saying all police are targeting blacks.
That is not a fact.

Also does that include black LEO's? Are they targeting blacks?

That's some serious cherry-picking from the far-out AR group... Not that they would have a white tinge to their publication or anything...

Police Shoot Unarmed Man With His Hands Up

Vox

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jaeger19

Top Cat

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Hatuey

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RetiredUSN

apdst

Captain America

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Caine

VanceMack

Less like the tiger...more like the lion.

dirtpoorchris

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Vox

Voice and Wisdom of God

Caine

Vox

Voice and Wisdom of God

Caine

Vox

Voice and Wisdom of God

Bucky

Bucky

mike2810

Bucky

Top Cat

He's the most tip top

VanceMack

Less like the tiger...more like the lion.

Bucky

VanceMack

Less like the tiger...more like the lion.

mike2810

Manc Skipper

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