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FBI: No evidence the Orlando killer was gay or used gay apps

SouthernDemocrat said:
Do you have to be secretly gay to hate gays? When did anyone say that? He could have just hated gays and lesbians as well as been radicalized, as well as been a typical psychopathic mass murder. What would be stupid is to say he is just a Muslim terrorist, nothing more to see here. Similarly it would be stupid to say he is just a self loathing closet gay, nothing more to see here.

What it looks like so far, and there is far more work to be done with the investigation, is the guy fits the typical profile of a mass shooter, that had a hatred of gays and lesbians, and that was self radicalized and wanted to attribute his murderous actions to ISIS. In the end it will probably be seen as a hate crime as well as an act of terrorism.
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Sadly, even such a kindergarden level of subtlety is lost on the True Believers of the frothy Islam-at-all-costs crowd.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
I don't know. It would be more credible if more people came forward with accounts of a relationship with him, but there will never be much physical evidence in cases like this.

He was closeted, and tried all he could to hide these activities, if they indeed occured, from everyone in his life except other gay men.
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You have no way to prove he was closeted nor does anyone have any way to prove that he ever had gay sex. That's what gets me about the whole thing. It's basically saying, well, that guy and that guy and that guy all say he did this with them. Well, ok, so what is the proof to back up their stories? Well? See, there isn't any proof, so the idea that the FBI will somehow find that he was likely this or that orientation is ludicrous.
 
_Sal said:
you are seriously comparing him to Bin Laden?

if so, you are displaying serious comprehension problems

also your tendency to say "excuses" to sum up any explanation which differs from you shows you have an agenda and are closed to other possibilities

that is your right but it will never lead to truth and understanding of a situation...in order to prevent further such situations understanding is critical
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Why not he killed for Islam? His psychiatric profile has little to do with killing gays unless he wanted to guarantee himself paradise.( a real win win for the bad guy) He has been told his whole life Gays should die. And it might of been his dads religion but his too. So Islam is to blame.
in order to prevent further such situations understanding is critical
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Put prevent in front of Islam and realize as long as Islam is preached the way it is there will be terror or submission. Again the root cause of the problem is being ignored.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
Sadly, even such a kindergarden level of subtlety is lost on the True Believers of the frothy Islam-at-all-costs crowd.
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One would think that even a child could recognize that there are often multiple motivations behind someone doing a horrible act. I guarantee you though, had this psychopath went to a church and killed 49 white partitioners of that church, they would recognize that obviously he hated Christians, and that was a significant factor in what he did. They would say that it was both an act of terrorism and a hate crime. Yet because he targeted gays and lesbians, they won't admit that, because then it would mean admitting that gays and lesbians are targets of hate crimes. So they won't say that this was an act of terrorism and a hate crime against gays and lesbians. Even though anyone that does not have their head up talk radio's ass could easily see that.
 
Hot Take: A guy who in 2016 says he thinks he needs to have an elaborate disguise because he is :shocked2:GAY before going on camera to tell "his story" has lies to tell.
 
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coldjoint said:
Why not he killed for Islam? His psychiatric profile has little to do with killing gays unless he wanted to guarantee himself paradise.( a real win win for the bad guy) He has been told his whole life Gays should die. And it might of been his dads religion but his too. So Islam is to blame.


Put prevent in front of Islam and realize as long as Islam is preached the way it is there will be terror or submission. Again the root cause of the problem is being ignored.
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Had his parents been accepting of homosexuality, had his dad not been radical this likely would not have occurred, had he not been born in the US, had he not been able to access the weaponry

there are many factors involved

I am ignoring nothing

I have always been an observer of human behaviour and always will be, I discount nothing, I ignore nothing, I have no need to draw a specific conclusion about cause, that is merely your assumption
 
Absentglare said:
Comey did say that, but that doesn't then mean that his radicalization was the primary cause of the attack.

I think we both agree that serious mental issues were at play.

This isn't someone who has been feeding off of ISIS propaganda since birth, this is someone who was born and raised in America.
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and the propaganda when he was younger came from his taliban sympathizer parent, and they differ from ISIS when it comes to gays how exactly?

ISIS will never get a free pass on this
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
One would think that even a child could recognize that there are often multiple motivations behind someone doing a horrible act. I guarantee you though, had this psychopath went to a church and killed 49 white partitioners of that church, they would recognize that obviously he hated Christians, and that was a significant factor in what he did. They would say that it was both an act of terrorism and a hate crime. Yet because he targeted gays and lesbians, they won't admit that, because then it would mean admitting that gays and lesbians are targets of hate crimes. So they won't say that this was an act of terrorism and a hate crime against gays and lesbians. Even though anyone that does not have their head up talk radio's ass could easily see that.
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THe problem with your argument is that when you(F) want to hurt a collective you(F) will if you(F) are smart go after what they hold most near and dear..... and we all know that we love our victims very much (Gays are still a full blown victims group YA know).

See what I mean? The precious gays might be nothing but a high value target here.

Lets not be too fast to ASSUME, MKay?

Thank you.
 
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Absentglare said:
Well, it still isn't an act of ISIS terrorism without ISIS being involved.

Let's suppose that Mateen didn't mention ISIS. Let's say he blamed the attack on the KKK. He attacked the gay nightclub because he pledged allegiance to the KKK.

Would his pledge alone draw a necessary relationship to the KKK ?
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Nobody said ISIS terrorism, even though Mateen did swear allegiance to ISIS. ISIS is not the only Muslim group out there that commits acts of terrorism you know.
 
_Sal said:
Had his parents been accepting of homosexuality, had his dad not been radical this likely would not have occurred, had he not been born in the US, had he not been able to access the weaponry

there are many factors involved

I am ignoring nothing

I have always been an observer of human behaviour and always will be, I discount nothing, I ignore nothing, I have no need to draw a specific conclusion about cause, that is merely your assumption
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It is not an assumption. Islam is a factory that churns out killers like Ford does cars. Muslims are told to emulate Mohammad. What are we to expect? The Hadith will tell you what a Mohammad clone is like and what he is capable of doing. Islamists exsist because people(including Muslims) refuse to stop them.

When Muslims start turning these killers in, or killing them, themselves that would solve the problem too. But that day is not coming. And it is foolish to think it is.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
Not really; there's not way to fully affix blame, as should be clear.
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Mateen openly said why he did it, there's no question as to the blame, but the loony left will deny it regardless, even if he left a notarized statement of intent, detailing exactly what Muslim beliefs he was following at the time of the massacre.
 
Cephus said:
Mateen openly said why he did it, there's no question as to the blame, but the loony left will deny it regardless, even if he left a notarized statement of intent, detailing exactly what Muslim beliefs he was following at the time of the massacre.
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The words as he is on the phone with 911 during the operation are worth roughly the same as a woman's in the middle of an alleged orgasim.
 
chromium said:
no, you are conflating the 'liberal left' with democrats, very few of whom are liberal. It's true that democrats are desperately trying to avoid mention of islam, for political reasons, but that has nothing to do with most liberals, whose views you won't find in the media

i think we can agree atheism is not represented by either party. According to the religious landscape study, only 30% of atheists identify as democrats

i believe you yourself lamented how rare conservative atheism is. That 20% seems to be "unaffiliated." The closest i found in polls show 14% as straight up atheist. Anyway, i just find it odd that you make this accusation of liberals when the vast majority of atheists are liberal
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Not sure how I could be conflating anything with Democrats when I never once mentioned Democrats at all. It isn't Democrats that are desperately trying to avoid mention of Islam, although there are certainly plenty of Democrats who are equally as guilty, it's liberals. It is the political left. That includes both liberals and regressives.

And no, according to the Pew survey, 69% of atheists self-identify as Democrats and a majority (56%) self-identify as politically liberal. And the reason that these liberals are pro-Islam has nothing to do with atheism, it has everything to do with trying to be protective of brown people. Liberals, atheist or no, tend to be horribly racist in that regard.
 
coldjoint said:
It is not an assumption. Islam is a factory that churns out killers like Ford does cars. Muslims are told to emulate Mohammad. What are we to expect? The Hadith will tell you what a Mohammad clone is like and what he is capable of doing. Islamists exsist because people(including Muslims) refuse to stop them.

When Muslims start turning these killers in, or killing them, themselves that would solve the problem too. But that day is not coming. And it is foolish to think it is.
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just because you are unaware of Muslims doing it doesn't mean it doesn't happen...since when would that be made public

one of our top terrorist specialists in my country is Muslim

it is narrow thinking to hold the belief that it doesn't happen or that their life should be endangered by making their revelations public
 
Hawkeye10 said:
THe problem with your argument is that when you(F) want to hurt a collective you(F) will if you(F) are smart go after what they hold most near and dear..... and we all know that we love our victims very much (Gays are still a full blown victims group YA know).

See what I mean? The precious gays might be nothing but a high value target here.

Lets not be too fast to ASSUME, MKay?

Thank you.
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Oh for ****s sakes. That is absolutely ridiculous. So its your contention that he didn't hate gays, he just thought he would kill a bunch of gays and lesbians because the PC crowd thinks they are precious. If that is your irrational conspiracy theory on this one, then don't let me get in the way of you believing it..
 
Hawkeye10 said:
The words as he is on the phone with 911 during the operation are worth roughly the same as a woman's in the middle of an alleged orgasim.
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Because his own statement as to his own motivations doesn't matter if it gets in the way of your political ideology. Gotcha.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Oh for ****s sakes. That is absolutely ridiculous. So its your contention that he didn't hate gays, he just thought he would kill a bunch of gays and lesbians because the PC crowd thinks they are precious. If that is your irrational conspiracy theory on this one, then don't let me get in the way of you believing it..
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Hit em where it hurts, and get the most free media you can....

Imperative: Pick your(F) victims wisely.

:idea:

EDIT: This is just basic common sense.

No PHD required.
 
Henrin said:
You have no way to prove he was closeted nor does anyone have any way to prove that he ever had gay sex. That's what gets me about the whole thing. It's basically saying, well, that guy and that guy and that guy all say he did this with them. Well, ok, so what is the proof to back up their stories? Well? See, there isn't any proof, so the idea that the FBI will somehow find that he was likely this or that orientation is ludicrous.
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LOL! What's the proof to back up any story? No one has any way to prove that he was actually radicalized by and did this for ISIS
 
Tanngrisnir said:
LOL! What's the proof to back up any story? No one has any way to prove that he was actually radicalized by and did this for ISIS
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Except for, you know, HIS OWN WORDS SAYING SO!
 
_Sal said:
just because you are unaware of Muslims doing it doesn't mean it doesn't happen...since when would that be made public

one of our top terrorist specialists in my country is Muslim

it is narrow thinking to hold the belief that it doesn't happen or that their life should be endangered by making their revelations public
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There are plenty of Muslims in the US in Homeland security. Do you see how that is going? Islam,again the root problem, says these people can lie to advance Islam. To think that some Muslims we trust are not lying is narrow thinking also.
 
Cephus said:
Mateen openly said why he did it, there's no question as to the blame, but the loony left will deny it regardless, even if he left a notarized statement of intent, detailing exactly what Muslim beliefs he was following at the time of the massacre.
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Of course there's a question as to the blame. There's no credible reason yet to just assume what he said was true, openly or otherwise.

You seem to need that to be the case, but wishing won't make reality, and this has nothing to do with the left, 'loony' or otherwise.

You can hate facts and complexities all you'd like, but the world isn't this black and white coloring book that you seem to wish it were.
 
Cephus said:
Except for, you know, HIS OWN WORDS SAYING SO!
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And we all know that people tell the truth. I think our brains are getting warped from too many years of the feminists telling us constantly that women ALMOST NEVER lie about sexual transgression. All the good people have such honest souls dontcha know..


EDIT: That last bit is sarcasm, obviously.
 
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Tanngrisnir said:
Of course there's a question as to the blame. There's no credible reason yet to just assume what he said was true, openly or otherwise.

You seem to need that to be the case, but wishing won't make reality, and this has nothing to do with the left, 'loony' or otherwise.

You can hate facts and complexities all you'd like, but the world isn't this black and white coloring book that you seem to wish it were.
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No, you just don't like the reason. You refuse to accept the reason. But when a killer calls 911 and tells the operator WHY HE'S KILLING PEOPLE, that's a perfectly credible reason to accept him at his word.

But you've got a political agenda so you're going to pretend that he must have been lying. The problem here is you.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
And we all know that people tell the truth. I think our brains are getting warped from too many years of the feminists claiming that women ALMOST NEVER lie about sexual transgression.
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Let us know when you have better EVIDENCE for another conclusion. Otherwise you're just pulling this out of your ass.
 
coldjoint said:
There are plenty of Muslims in the US in Homeland security. Do you see how that is going? Islam,again the root problem, says these people can lie to advance Islam. To think that some Muslims we trust are not lying is narrow thinking also.
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I can't speak for your homeland security...I also know that this specialist believes in a very radical pro active anti terrorist approach

one day at a time

one person at a time

doctors without borders have no problem working amoungst Muslims, why...because they have earned their respect

we have to look at this in a big picture way, if this comes down to who has the bigger stick....we are squashed already
 
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