Patients Ponder Life and Death as California's New 'Right to Die' Law Begins

First of all, Oregon is a "Right to die" state, so we can kill ourselves all we want, but I'd like to tell you about my father-in-law's passing:

Roy was an old logger and tough as they come, but hit guts just couldn't keep up any more and he ended up on life support as his body started falling apart form the stress. They took him off of life support on Tuesday morning and expected him pass away within the hour, but Roy had other plans and just kept living. We all knew that he was suffering in spite of the meds (morphine), and after two days, he just wouldn't die. My brother-in-law (a top end ER nurse) eventually started talking to the nurses on staff and had them start upping his morphine, until he finally just took over and bumped the morphine up to the point where Roy finally passed on, lying the arms of his wife of 40+ years.

In spite of laws for and against "right to die", there are always ways to accomplish what these laws attempt to prevent and ways to get around the requirements of these laws. If the State of Oregon wanted to stick their noses into Roy's death, they could probably prosecute for some level of manslaughter, but that will never happen. At some point, it's better to simply turn a blind eye to these things than it is to shine a big spotlight on them. "Physician assisted suicide" has been around for as long as there have been physicians and will continue to be around as long as people have to face the suffering of a loved one.

All that was said to show that there is a time and place for this kind of thing, but most RTD laws allows far more than the compassionate ending of a person's suffering. In the OP, there was this quote:

"For me, it's if I can no longer hygienically take care of myself," she told NBC News, adding, "I don't want my husband to have to."

Click to expand...

Sorry, but having to have help wiping your butt is not a reason to die. When you are struggling to for every breath, wracked with the pain of pancreatic cancer or facing a life time of constant intensive pain, that's when you get to lay your life down, not because of the embarrassment of having to have help wiping your butt...

Gina said:

This is great news. It's been the law in Oregon for a long while. Some people go through the steps to the the drugs to end their lives, but don't do it. It's just a comfort to have the option. My uncle was dying of bladder cancer in another state. He toyed with moving here so he could end his life when he'd had enough. Unfortunately, the disease took hold too quickly to act and he lived out his days in terrible pain with nurses mocking him for it (within earshot of his daughter) but for the last 12 hours in hospice. What a terrible an undignified way for a person to die.

Click to expand...

Didn't know you lived in the NW. I'm near Tacoma.

Scrabaholic said:

As of the other day, Canada does, too. There's a law making it's way through the Senate, but it's too restrictive according to the ruling of our SC on doctor assisted dying. The SC said it should be available to anyone who is greatly suffering, but the law says the person has to be terminal. The Senate just voted to delete that and go with the SC ruling. Whether it gets passed or not is anyone's guess but in the meantime, it's legal.

I am against making it only for people who are going to die within 6 months. There are many cases of people who are non terminal but in extreme suffering. They should have the right to doctor assisted dying, too. We give our pets better consideration than we give our fellow humans.

Click to expand...

Just one of the many very logical principles that will never gain traction because it's so extremely unpopular. Self determination apparently comes with strings attached

Even more contentious is the idea that mental suffering is actual suffering. That swiss group dignitas drew outrage from the british UHS when a woman in her mid 30s crossed the channel to take their poison, as she no longer wanted to endure depression after 20 years and no successful treatment. The letter from the dignitas doctor concluded that she would never improve

But very few are willing to allow her to take this path. I guess they'd rather she run in front of traffic or whatever

faithful_servant said:

Sorry, but having to have help wiping your butt is not a reason to die.

Click to expand...

Who are you to say for anyone but yourself or maybe anyone who has given you power of attorney?

Scrabaholic said:

Who are you to say for anyone but yourself or maybe anyone who has given you power of attorney?

Click to expand...

I never said that you couldn't make the choice, just that some of the motivations are sad and pathetic and shouldn't be covered under a right to die law. If you're able to kill yourself, then go ahead and do it if that's what you want to do, but I would hope that no Dr. in his/her right mind would help someone kill them self because they didn't want to have to have help wiping their butt.

faithful_servant said:

I never said that you couldn't make the choice, just that some of the motivations are sad and pathetic and shouldn't be covered under a right to die law. If you're able to kill yourself, then go ahead and do it if that's what you want to do, but I would hope that no Dr. in his/her right mind would help someone kill them self because they didn't want to have to have help wiping their butt.

Click to expand...

Sad and pathetic are your opinions. You're entitled to them. But they aren't fact
.

I support this for terminally ill patients, or perhaps ones that are diagnosed with illness and disease that will eventually take their life, costing their family tons of money in the process. I was watching a thing that Vice did a few months ago about the Dutch and their current laws. Their system takes it too far I believe. It was about this woman who had wanted to die for many years. Eventually, she was cleared and was able to kill herself with help from a medical doctor. Her children had said that she had dealt with mental illness and depression for many years. I don't think we should be allowing these people to be given life ending substances due to their mental disorders. We should be attempting to treat them with other methods so that they don't want to die any longer. In the end, they will decide how they live their life. But doctors shouldn't be encouraging them or allowing them easier access to escape their mental torment. It was extremely sad to watch this perfectly healthy lady(physically at least) lie there as her doctor pumped her body full of death inducing chemicals. I couldn't imagine being the child of the lady and all you can do is sit there and watch your mentally ill mother be put down because the doctor believes that is the best path to take.

faithful_servant said:

I never said that you couldn't make the choice, just that some of the motivations are sad and pathetic and shouldn't be covered under a right to die law. If you're able to kill yourself, then go ahead and do it if that's what you want to do, but I would hope that no Dr. in his/her right mind would help someone kill them self because they didn't want to have to have help wiping their butt.

Click to expand...

If someone is unable to wipe their own butt, chances are 1. there's a lot more to it than just that (meaning pain and/or disability) and 2. they probably wouldn't be physically able to end their life without help.

Scrabaholic said:

If someone is unable to wipe their own butt, chances are 1. there's a lot more to it than just that (meaning pain and/or disability) and 2. they probably wouldn't be physically able to end their life without help.

Click to expand...

My grandmother was in that position and I can guarantee you that if she chose to end her life, she would have found a way...

faithful_servant said:

My grandmother was in that position and I can guarantee you that if she chose to end her life, she would have found a way...

Click to expand...

That's nice.

I feel that this is a good direction, but I also feel that the bar has been placed too high. It's still going to be insurmountable for many people who need it.