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Target's bathroom policy gets mixed reviews in Houston

Henrin said:
Just answer the question. Lets pretend for a moment that transgenders didn't exist, but male and female bathrooms still existed. If that was the case would discrimination still be taking place?
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Yes, it is but not all discrimination is bad, or even good. Some is just neutral. And it doesn't have to be enforced discrimination either.
 
roguenuke said:
If it was going to happen, "perverts" (or those who want to rape people) were going to go into public bathrooms en masse to rape or molest or attack women and children it would have already been going on since many places never even had policies against it.

It isn't laws that maintain strict restroom rules based on sex that prevent people from getting raped/molested/attacked in restrooms, it is the circumstances where in most cases, they are public restrooms, where people of the public can come and go at any time and there are generally employees nearby as well. On top of this, especially nowdays, many businesses have cameras pointed nearby the entrance to their restrooms. There are so many actual practical reasons that people are deterred from doing something in the restroom against another (most of the time) that this fear is unfounded and irrational.
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You are right. But we can't just dismiss concerns. That is what they are, concerns, not discrimination. Once we call it what it is, and actually start communicating, all this will go away and we can pee happily ever after.
 
danarhea said:
To be honest, the real reason I posted this was due to the typo in the article...



Will that be in a peeing or a non-peeing section? LOL.

Seriously, though, let the babies boycott. It will make for a shorter line for me when I check out.

Article is here.
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These PC lib's are insane ! :roll:
 
Lovebug said:
You are right. But we can't just dismiss concerns. That is what they are, concerns, not discrimination. Once we call it what it is, and actually start communicating, all this will go away and we can pee happily ever after.
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We can dismiss unwarranted concerns. If there is no evidence of any significant number of people using this law to gain access to women or children in restrooms, then it is not reasonable to assume that this should be a legitimate concern. In fact, we have plenty of evidence to suggest that this is not a reasonable concern prior to any laws changing (and many already have or simply aren't enforced currently anyway).
 
roguenuke said:
We can dismiss unwarranted concerns. If there is no evidence of any significant number of people using this law to gain access to women or children in restrooms, then it is not reasonable to assume that this should be a legitimate concern. In fact, we have plenty of evidence to suggest that this is not a reasonable concern prior to any laws changing (and many already have or simply aren't enforced currently anyway).
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People have a right to their concerns, as others have the right to claim discrimination even if it doesn't exists. Once people start communicating, listening to each others concerns, we can move forward. Disregarding concerns as unreasonable is very intolerant and dismissive.
 
danarhea said:
To be honest, the real reason I posted this was due to the typo in the article...



Will that be in a peeing or a non-peeing section? LOL.

Seriously, though, let the babies boycott. It will make for a shorter line for me when I check out.

Article is here.
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One of the reasons I like shopping Target is that I never have to wait in line the check out. Terrible grocery selection, but love how clean, roomy and convenient the stores are.
 
Keep the two bathroom system. One for racist homophobic bible banging assholes, and one for the rest of us. Problem solved.
 
Slyfox696 said:
...that doesn't even make sense, what double standard?
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The double one, where you support a right to boycott, and you support a right for making fun of those who boycott. That is a totally clear cut double standard. You hypocrite!!!!!!!!!!!
 
azgreg said:
Keep the two bathroom system. One for racist homophobic bible banging assholes, and one for the rest of us. Problem solved.
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Great conversation starter, assuming all those concerned about the issue are assholes. That will show 'em.
 
Lovebug said:
Great conversation starter, assuming all those concerned about the issue are assholes. That will show 'em.
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If a person equates another feeling trapped in the wrong body with automatically being child molesting/rapist pedophiles, isn't it kind of hard to not start assuming certain things about those people?

Saying transgendered people shouldn't be allowed to use a bathroom because they can molest a child (or someone might pretend to be transgendered and molest a child) is not an argument worthy of rational discussion. It is nothing more than baseless fear mongering, which ignores the fact the very scenario could already take place, if a predator truly wanted to hurt someone.

I get the point you're trying to make, that such heated rhetoric is not going to lend itself to an amicable solution. But we shouldn't pretend that all opinions are equal in rationality or validity and trying to claim transgendered people are child molesters who will prey on children (as I've seen said many times) is not rational or valid and deserves no realistic consideration.
 
Lovebug said:
People have a right to their concerns, as others have the right to claim discrimination even if it doesn't exists. Once people start communicating, listening to each others concerns, we can move forward. Disregarding concerns as unreasonable is very intolerant and dismissive.
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They do have a right to their concerns. They don't have a right to not have those concerns questioned and even mocked for being irrational fears.
 
soot said:
Jesus fukc!

The crisis of rapes being committed in Target bathrooms is already through the roof.

This is just like throwing nitroglycerine on the fire.

Hide your kids, hide your wife, hide your husband, cuz they rapin' everybody up in here.
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I like the fact that people missed your pop culture reference. LOL
 
WTF happened to Target? Ten years ago they were considered to be one of the best retailers out there but it has all fallen apart. No way should Target even be in this controversy, that they are is clearly a failure of management.
 
Slyfox696 said:
If a person equates another feeling trapped in the wrong body with automatically being child molesting/rapist pedophiles, isn't it kind of hard to not start assuming certain things about those people?

Saying transgendered people shouldn't be allowed to use a bathroom because they can molest a child (or someone might pretend to be transgendered and molest a child) is not an argument worthy of rational discussion. It is nothing more than baseless fear mongering, which ignores the fact the very scenario could already take place, if a predator truly wanted to hurt someone.

I get the point you're trying to make, that such heated rhetoric is not going to lend itself to an amicable solution. But we shouldn't pretend that all opinions are equal in rationality or validity and trying to claim transgendered people are child molesters who will prey on children (as I've seen said many times) is not rational or valid and deserves no realistic consideration.
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roguenuke said:
They do have a right to their concerns. They don't have a right to not have those concerns questioned and even mocked for being irrational fears.
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How about a " all of us are interested in a comfortable and safe BR experience." That is far from being dismissing, it is straight to the point, and should appeal to all involved. Stubborn people being an exception.
Why is it in everyone's best interest. Because all of us are subject to abuse by those who don't play by the rules.
Problem solved.
But yeah, go ahead and hammer for one side without giving consideration to the other. You call that whatever you wish.
I, for one, want both sides to be happy, but that isn't good enough for everyone.
 
Lovebug said:
How about a " all of us are interested in a comfortable and safe BR experience." That is far from being dismissing, it is straight to the point, and should appeal to all involved. Stubborn people being an exception.
Why is it in everyone's best interest. Because all of us are subject to abuse by those who don't play by the rules.
Problem solved.
But yeah, go ahead and hammer for one side without giving consideration to the other. You call that whatever you wish.
I, for one, want both sides to be happy, but that isn't good enough for everyone.
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Then don't use public restrooms because no one can guarantee either of those experiences. Any number of issues can make it uncomfortable or even unsafe. Having someone of the opposite sex in the restroom doesn't make it unsafe and your comfort is on you.
 
roguenuke said:
Then don't use public restrooms because no one can guarantee either of those experiences. Any number of issues can make it uncomfortable or even unsafe. Having someone of the opposite sex in the restroom doesn't make it unsafe and your comfort is on you.
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Not taking sides is an option too. Isn't the idea to make everyone happy? How about that gender neutral family bathroom? No? Not controversial enough to cause a ruckus? Ah yes, there we go. That would be a compromise. But hey, lets keep worried parents at home and call them simpleton bigots. Idiots, worrying about kids. Having a kid, either putting it in diapers or staying home, now that is a great alternative for worried parents (however justified that worry is). As long as we please some people, those who don't want equality but special consideration, the hell with everyone elses opinions.
Well, I'll go pee now, then start dinner and check into some local news. After that, I may have a beer and go pee again. Be happy. :)
 
Lovebug said:
How about a " all of us are interested in a comfortable and safe BR experience." That is far from being dismissing
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Because their argument holds no water and is merely meant to villainize transgendered people. If I may invoke Godwin's law for a moment, we might as well say "well, all countries are interested in making their country the best, so let's try to understand why the Nazis murdered millions of Jews".

As I said, some arguments deserve no rational discussion for they lack rationality in the first place. A REASONABLE concern would be "will there be sufficient accommodation for all who wish to use the bathroom privately?". That's a reasonable concern, though not an argument which would get very far. But equating transgenderism to pedophilia is absurd and not an argument with any merit.

Why is it in everyone's best interest. Because all of us are subject to abuse by those who don't play by the rules.
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But it's not different than how the situation currently exists. I could go into a women's restroom tomorrow and molest someone, if that's what I wished to do. Accusing transgendered people of being pedophiles who will molest children is merely a smokescreen for the real issue(s) people have with transgendered people using the bathroom with which they feel most comfortable.

But yeah, go ahead and hammer for one side without giving consideration to the other.
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I'll hammer every side that is being stupid. I believe my opening post in this thread hammered both sides for making a big deal over nothing.

You call that whatever you wish.
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I call it lending no validity to a baseless attempt to demonize people simply because they are different than you.

I, for one, want both sides to be happy, but that isn't good enough for everyone.
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I want both sides to chill the heck out, since this really is a big ado about nothing. What I DON'T want is to give validity to an incredibly stupid and prejudiced argument.

Tell me, if the argument was "we don't want black people in our white bathrooms because they might molest our children", would you lend any credit to that argument at all? Or would you, like most of us rational people, laugh at the absurd prejudiced being displayed?
Lovebug said:
How about that gender neutral family bathroom? No?
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That would obviously be the best option, but so often it's just not possible.
 
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Lovebug said:
Not taking sides is an option too. Isn't the idea to make everyone happy? How about that gender neutral family bathroom? No? Not controversial enough to cause a ruckus? Ah yes, there we go. That would be a compromise. But hey, lets keep worried parents at home and call them simpleton bigots. Idiots, worrying about kids. Having a kid, either putting it in diapers or staying home, now that is a great alternative for worried parents (however justified that worry is). As long as we please some people, those who don't want equality but special consideration, the hell with everyone elses opinions.
Well, I'll go pee now, then start dinner and check into some local news. After that, I may have a beer and go pee again. Be happy. :)
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I'm fine with all sorts of solutions. One size does not really fit all for anything.

All sorts of parents are worried about all sorts of things and some aren't worried about anything. There is no way to please everyone. If someone was really concerned about their children, why is there not some call to put guards outside or maybe bathroom attendants inside all public restrooms? Sort of hard to attack someone with a monitor in the room.
 
The minute Target decided to start selling groceries, was the moment I knew that they were on a death spiral business-wise. They're about 5 years away from closing for good. Now, don't get me wrong, that bodes well for the propagandists who will claim it was because of the boycott, but it won't be the complete truth. I have said and will continue to say that businesses wishing to enter the political correctness foray are risking a lot more than their principles.. Stay out of politics because there's a really good chance that more than half the population won't like your decision.


Tim-
 
jmotivator said:
Their lack of self awareness is staggering, isn't it?
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I'm still waiting on someone to explain how it was ironic. Perhaps you'd like a stab at it?
 
Slyfox696 said:
If a person equates another feeling trapped in the wrong body with automatically being child molesting/rapist pedophiles, isn't it kind of hard to not start assuming certain things about those people?
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Truly it is a magnificent straw man.
 
Slyfox696 said:
I'm still waiting on someone to explain how it was ironic. Perhaps you'd like a stab at it?
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No problem with the boycott of the state of NC by artists and musicians because they don't like the law... and bitching about people boycotting of Target by people who don't like their rules.
 
Slyfox696 said:
Do explain, I'd LOVE to hear this.
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Oh, I solidly concur with the sentiment - if you don't like a privately owned business's approach to sexuality, hey, buy or not as you please, and feel free not to shop there. Live and let live, after all. It's a free country - businesses should make their own decisions, and consumers should make their own decisions regarding the Culture Wars and what is and isn't important to them.

It's just that you don't. Boycotts of North Carolina are heroic and wonderful. Boycotts of Target are stupid, done by stupid people. Businesses deciding to go full-gender-fluid is great and progressive. Businesses deciding that they will only support Christian views of sexuality are abusive, discriminatory, and must be punished and forced to stop.
 
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