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Tamir Rice shooting: Cleveland to pay $6 million to settle family's lawsuit

azgreg said:
Yeah!!! The tax payers get to pay 6 mil for a cops **** up. Murica.
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Then the taxpayers need to stop being a bunch of apathetic lazy effs and start paying attention to what their city and police do in their collective name. I have no sympathy for the taxpayers, of which I am one, in this regard.
 
TurtleDude said:
SOP in settlements
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Agreed. Still doesn't make it right.

This specific case isn't as cut-and-dry because the kid did have what may have legitimately appeared to be a real gun, but there are many cases that are more definitive and the police/city still don't admit responsibility.
 
Thankfully there was video evidence of what really happened versus the police report. It's not easy to fight a police officer's word without it.
 
radcen said:
That's about as ignorant a statement as there can be. You really think the family considers it an even exchange?
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Sadly, there are some families that would.
 
Ikari said:
And the city paid out 6 million dollars. Deal with it. To combat this issue, we need better training and better less-than-lethal tools for the police. Again, deal with it.

You sitting there coming up with excuses for the Government does nothing to address the problem. Better training and better less-than-lethal tools for the police will help to limit the frequency of these senarios.
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We disagree on who it is that has 'the problem'. You ignore every factor that puts police in the equation and then shriek 'bad cop for responding to those circumstances!'
 
VanceMack said:
We disagree on who it is that has 'the problem'. You ignore every factor that puts police in the equation and then shriek 'bad cop for responding to those circumstances!'
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No, I'm merely considering reality. You're living in this fantasy land wherein you can make everyone personally responsible. But we don't live in that world. This is evident by the family getting 6 million dollars from the city. These payouts will continue so long as this behavior continues. So the only way to mitigate this effect is to mitigate these outcomes. And that will take better training and better less-than-lethal tools for our police.

We have to live in the real world if we are going to make a solution.
 
radcen said:
Sadly, I'm sure you're right... but there is no evidence that is the case here.
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The first thought I had were these Middle Eastern families who willingly and proudly offer their children for suicide bombings and are highly compensated.

The value of life changes depending on culture.
 
Erod said:
The first thought I had were these Middle Eastern families who willingly and proudly offer their children for suicide bombings and are highly compensated.

The value of life changes depending on culture.
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Excellent example.
 
Ikari said:
No, I'm merely considering reality. You're living in this fantasy land wherein you can make everyone personally responsible. But we don't live in that world. This is evident by the family getting 6 million dollars from the city. These payouts will continue so long as this behavior continues. So the only way to mitigate this effect is to mitigate these outcomes. And that will take better training and better less-than-lethal tools for our police.

We have to live in the real world if we are going to make a solution.
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I agree with what you say here, but I think that's only half the issue. The other half is we need tort reform and/or education for juries that government isn't an emotionally soothing bottomless wallet.
 
Tettsuo said:
You entire point is utterly irrelevant.

The cops never saw the gun.
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Don't need to. The had reasonable cause to suspect he did

And he did
 
Ikari said:
Oh? They would have won in court, that's why they paid out 6 million dollars and set the precedent on how they'll deal with these issues? Because they had a slam dunk win on their hands?

lol
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Happens all the time. Settlements are common. Especially on media unfriendly cases
 
radcen said:
I agree with what you say here, but I think that's only half the issue. The other half is we need tort reform and/or education for juries that government isn't an emotionally soothing bottomless wallet.
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There does. But with the current precedents, I'm not sure how feasible that will be. For the immediate response to limit this big payouts, better training and better less-than-lethal tools for the police.
 
VanceMack said:
You should join the academy and show them how its done. Especially the part where you respond to a call about an individual with a gun, and then see the individual with the gun get up, walk towards your car and reaches for the gun and where you wait for them to shoot to determine if its a real gun or not.
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Plenty of cops not respond the way that cop did. In fact I'll even agree that most cops would have handled the situation much differently. The fact that you're defending him is sickening.
 
Middleground said:
Plenty of cops not respond the way that cop did. In fact I'll even agree that most cops would have handled the situation much differently. The fact that you're defending him is sickening.
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Im a weird combination of both sad but also happy you have something to be sick and outraged over.

the facts remain. The cops responded to a call with a suspect with a gun threatening people. They arrived on the scene and said suspect jumped up, approached them, and then lifted his shirt and began reaching for his gun. Plenty of cops would have responded to the threat. Hell..YOU might have if you were in a similar situation. Because your brain says Suspect...gun...GUN...and responds.

Your outrage is cute. All of your collective outrage is cute. Its EASY to be you. Its easy to be nice and safe and judgemental...from behind a keyboard.
 
VanceMack said:
Im a weird combination of both sad but also happy you have something to be sick and outraged over.

the facts remain. The cops responded to a call with a suspect with a gun threatening people.
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Not what I read. The person that called into 911 did say (I paraphrase) that most likely, the gun was a toy.


They arrived on the scene and said suspect jumped up, approached them, and then lifted his shirt and began reaching for his gun.
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That kid was moving that way before the car showed up. The cop -- without even a "freeze" or "put your weapon down" shoots him. ****ing insane!

Plenty of cops would have responded to the threat. Hell..YOU might have if you were in a similar situation. Because your brain says Suspect...gun...GUN...and responds.
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I don't agree. And if I am wrong, then they are not getting enough training.

Your outrage is cute. All of your collective outrage is cute. Its EASY to be you. Its easy to be nice and safe and judgemental...from behind a keyboard.
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I bet if Tamir Rice was YOUR kid, you'd have a whole different outlook.

Amazing this guy doesn't get shot:

 
Middleground said:
Not what I read. The person that called into 911 did say (I paraphrase) that most likely, the gun was a toy.




That kid was moving that way before the car showed up. The cop -- without even a "freeze" or "put your weapon down" shoots him. ****ing insane!



I don't agree. And if I am wrong, then they are not getting enough training.



I bet if Tamir Rice was YOUR kid, you'd have a whole different outlook.

Amazing this guy doesn't get shot:

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WHat you read about the person that called it in (he stated he though it was probably not a real gun...he didnt know) was not what was reported to the responding officers.

It would ONLY be amazing that guy doesnt get shot if he was walking around the neighborhood pointing his gun at random strangers terrorizing them. And IF cops rolled up on him and he began to unshoulder and ready his weapon I would expect police to shoot first, and go home to their family members.

If Tamir Rice were my child he would be alive and in school and thriving preparing for college. My kids were taught better and they have been around guns their whole lives. My kids knew better than to use weapons to threaten other people for fun. And if they DIDNT learn that lesson from me and if I KNEW they had the weapon and were threatening people with it, 'I' would deserve to have MY ass beat and held responsible.
 
VanceMack said:
WHat you read about the person that called it in (he stated he though it was probably not a real gun...he didnt know) was not what was reported to the responding officers.

It would ONLY be amazing that guy doesnt get shot if he was walking around the neighborhood pointing his gun at random strangers terrorizing them. And IF cops rolled up on him and he began to unshoulder and ready his weapon I would expect police to shoot first, and go home to their family members.

If Tamir Rice were my child he would be alive and in school and thriving preparing for college. My kids were taught better and they have been around guns their whole lives. My kids knew better than to use weapons to threaten other people for fun. And if they DIDNT learn that lesson from me and if I KNEW they had the weapon and were threatening people with it, 'I' would deserve to have MY ass beat and held responsible.
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All good except for it was not a weapon, it was a toy gun that looked real
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
All good except for it was not a weapon, it was a toy gun that looked real
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It was not a 'toy' it was a replica pellet gun and when used in a criminal act it is considered a weapon. If, other than that it is "all good" then you are on the wrong side of the issue because you are on the wrong side of the legal status of the weapon.
 
VanceMack said:
It was not a 'toy' it was a replica pellet gun and when used in a criminal act it is considered a weapon. If, other than that it is "all good" then you are on the wrong side of the issue because you are on the wrong side of the legal status of the weapon.
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It was an airsoft gun which people use to shoot each other in recreational games

He pointed what is a toy gun at people. Something I am sure a majority of boys have done in their youth. He did not rob a bank, or try to mug anyone or commit any other crime
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
It was an airsoft gun which people use to shoot each other in recreational games

He pointed what is a toy gun at people. Something I am sure a majority of boys have done in their youth. He did not rob a bank, or try to mug anyone or commit any other crime
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He spent an hour menacing strangers in the park. You want to equate that to just kids playing with toys...be my guest. Your desperate need to minimize his actions are irrelevant to the legal definitions.

Lawriter - ORC - 2923.122 Illegal conveyance or possession of deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance or of object indistinguishable from firearm in school safety zone.

So just accept that you are wrong or find another excuse to bleat on about the stupid and negligent acts of a kid and his guardian that ended up getting him killed.
 
VanceMack said:
If Tamir Rice were my child he would be alive and in school and thriving preparing for college. My kids were taught better and they have been around guns their whole lives. My kids knew better than to use weapons to threaten other people for fun. And if they DIDNT learn that lesson from me and if I KNEW they had the weapon and were threatening people with it, 'I' would deserve to have MY ass beat and held responsible.
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You must be the only parent in the history of the world that is so assured his kids are perfect. Wow, to be so lucky.
 
Middleground said:
You must be the only parent in the history of the world that is so assured his kids are perfect. Wow, to be so lucky.
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Actually Im not. There are 120 million or so of us legal gun owners and the VAST majority of us teach responsible behavior to our children. Oh...but lets not stop at legal gun owners. There are MILLIONS and MILLIONS of parents of children that dont own guns that have taught their children not to point guns at strangers and not to threaten strangers with what you want them to believe is a real gun. I dont know if YOU ever had kids. Did you? Did YOU teach your kids to act responsibly? Keep in mind...we arent talking about teaching kids heroics here. We are talking about teaching basic common ****ing decency. So...how about it? Kids? Got em? had em? Did you teach them not to threaten people with weapons? Instead of all your hyperbolic bull****...honest answer. Direct answer. Did YOU teach your kids better? Do you REALLY think teaching kids common sense and decent manners = perfection or that a kid has to be 'perfect' to know and to be taught not to threaten strangers with a gun?

Straight up honest no bull**** answer. Cuz frankly? I believe if you HAVE had children you taught them, the exact same things I would have taught mine and your outrage and hype is all bull**** necessitated by cause.

But then...I admit...I could be wrong.
 
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