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Appeals Court rules for transgender teen in Virginia bathroom case

Henrin said:
I accept transgenders before treatment. I don't accept them after all this bull**** treatment and their claims about being something they are not. That is not acceptable behavior and I will not go along with it.
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well none of us have any reason to care and after the courts make a meal out of your prejudices, like the gay marriage threads that have disappeared, you'll be debating with yourself if anything
 
Henrin said:
Your personal story means nothing to me. Your friend is a man and the fact that they are presenting themselves as something else is something I disapprove of.
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You can disapprove all you want. That is your First Amendment Right. But you have no right to deprive her of equal treatment, which is her 14th Amendment right.
 
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TurtleDude said:
hard to say what the fall out would be. I figure if someone is planning a sexual assault-its sort of like thinking a sign saying a school is a gun free zone is going to stop someone like a Klebold or Harris who have premeditated a shooting spree. If you plan on raping someone its not because you can use the ladies' restroom due to some law that basically says you can
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You are a lawyer, wouldn't it be easier to "get off" on a charge if there are no witnesses, no DNA evidence, and a claim of rape of a female in a female bathroom with just her word against the suspects?

Now if he wasn't legally permitted to be there in the first place, that helps her case..... otherwise, it makes it that much more difficult.

Or am I wrong?
 
Henrin said:
Your personal story means nothing to me. Your friend is a man and the fact that they are presenting themselves as something else is something I disapprove of.
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why do you disapprove of something that has ZERO impact on you, who you sleep with etc?
 
TurtleDude said:
a party could still have standing even if all of the C/A rule the same way the fourth circuit did

if they all rule that way, though, you are most likely correct that the supremes won't hear it
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how will they establish standing without proving they were harmed by the decision? This is why SCOTUS punted on the challenge to the overturn of prop 8. There was no party that was harmed by the overturn
 
Caine said:
You are a lawyer, wouldn't it be easier to "get off" on a charge if there are no witnesses, no DNA evidence, and a claim of rape of a female in a female bathroom with just her word against the suspects?

Now if he wasn't legally permitted to be there in the first place, that helps her case..... otherwise, it makes it that much more difficult.

Or am I wrong?
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most rape cases are just that. her word against his. when his words match up with the evidence, he walks (william Kennedy Smith vs Patricia Bowman)

when her words match up with the proven evidence, the man is usually convicted.

Maybe I don't understand your question Caine. if someone intends to assault another, that means they don't worry about the felony rape charge they will face. why would they worry about being in the "wrong Bathroom" when they commit the felony assault?
 
chromium said:
how will they establish standing without proving they were harmed by the decision? This is why SCOTUS punted on the challenge to the overturn of prop 8. There was no party that was harmed by the overturn
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someone claims they were offended by seeing someone of the "wrong gender" or perceived gender

that all the CA rule one way doesn't change standing
 
TurtleDude said:
someone claims they were offended by seeing someone of the "wrong gender" or perceived gender

that all the CA rule one way doesn't change standing
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well i guess they could claim that and it will be up to SCOTUS to decide to reject their claim out of hand or not, but it seems extremely flimsy
 
chromium said:
well i guess they could claim that and it will be up to SCOTUS to decide to reject their claim out of hand or not, but it seems extremely flimsy
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I agree, especially if ALL the COA rule one way. I could see the USSC punting and saying its a state issue or more likely-refusing to hear it
 
TurtleDude said:
why do you disapprove of something that has ZERO impact on you, who you sleep with etc?
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You do realize this can affect people personally, right? Transsexuals wouldn't be told to inform first if it couldn't possibly affect anyone else. It also does affect you when you are seeing a lie and wrongly judge someone based on it.
 
Henrin said:
You do realize this can affect people personally, right? Transsexuals wouldn't be told to inform first if it couldn't possibly affect anyone else. It also does affect you when you are seeing a lie and wrongly judge someone based on it.
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so let me see If I can read between the lines

You are worried about a "Crying Game" incident

is that your concern?
 
Caine said:
You are a lawyer, wouldn't it be easier to "get off" on a charge if there are no witnesses, no DNA evidence, and a claim of rape of a female in a female bathroom with just her word against the suspects?

Now if he wasn't legally permitted to be there in the first place, that helps her case..... otherwise, it makes it that much more difficult.

Or am I wrong?
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Most of this rape stuff is bunk. Rape in bathrooms isn't all that common and unless it is a low traffic area the risk is near zero.
 
TurtleDude said:
I can see it now

Hey dave-this dude in the urinal next to me had a pink Pecker

Dave-WTF are you doing checking out another dude's johnson? are you wasted or WHAT?
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Reminds me of something that happened in 1969. Larry "Pun" Plamondon, who was Minister of Defense for the White Panther Party, was arrested for indecent exposure, after a cop caught him pissing in an alley. He decided to defend himself. After the cop was questioned by the prosecutor, Pun asked just one question. "Did you see my penis?". The cop got embarrassed, and did not answer the question. The case was thrown out of court. LOL.
 
danarhea said:
Reminds me of something that happened in 1969. Larry "Pun" Plamondon, who was Minister of Defense for the White Panther Party, was arrested for indecent exposure, after a cop caught him pissing in an alley. He decided to defend himself. After the cop was questioned by the prosecutor, Pun asked just one question. "Did you see my penis?". The cop got embarrassed, and did not answer the question. The case was thrown out of court. LOL.
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LOL, he probably hung out with the MC-5

Good night Dana-SYL
 
TurtleDude said:
LOL, he probably hung out with the MC-5

Good night Dana-SYL
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He did. He eventually ran security for Bob Seger until he got fired for drunkenness. He cleaned himself up after that. Later on he went back to his roots, and lives on a reservation in upper Michigan now.
 
Henrin said:
You do realize this can affect people personally, right? Transsexuals wouldn't be told to inform first if it couldn't possibly affect anyone else. It also does affect you when you are seeing a lie and wrongly judge someone based on it.
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that is a totally separate argument from a MtF running to the bathroom stall
 
TurtleDude said:
so let me see If I can read between the lines

You are worried about a "Crying Game" incident

is that your concern?
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I don't know what that is. What I said is what I meant to say.
 
so since the 4th circuit has jurisdiction over NC, will they soon grant the ACLU request to put the law on hold, or after the full panel rules, or speed up the lawsuit? I'm not sure how that works but it only stands to reason one of these should happen since they're identical issues

of course, this still leaves the law's animus and equal protection violations re: sexual orientation unresolved. That i do expect to end up before SCOTUS
 
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Your Star said:
That's not how these laws work. You can't just claim to be trans and use the bathroom. You have to be living as your real gender, go through the stages of getting doctor's notes and approvals, getting on hormones, etc. This is not something that someone can abuse like that.
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So trans people have to carry papers proving they're doing that?

At the point of enforcement how does one establish what gender they "identify" as?
 
"By overturning a lower court decision in the Virginia case, the appellate panel found that Title IX, the federal law that prohibits gender discrimination and harassment in schools, protects the rights of students to use the bathroom that corresponds with their gender identity. Critics say North Carolina’s law could place in jeopardy about $4 billion in federal funds for education, housing and transportation if the state is found in violation of Title IX."

I really don't see how the hell the federal departments can avoid taking action now. They have the go ahead from a federal court
 
TurtleDude said:
Appeals court rules for transgender teen in Virginia bathroom case | News & Observer

The 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling Tuesday in the case of a Virginia transgender teen clarifies how the court is likely to view questions about North Carolina’s widely watched new law, commonly called House Bill 2.
Amid protests, boycotts and heated debate about transgender people and the bathrooms they use, the 4th Circuit judges split 2-1 on whether 16-year-old Gavin Grimm, a high school student in rural Virginia, has the right to use the restroom designated for the gender with which he identifies.

sounds like this might spur a lower federal court to act on the NC law
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Hopefully the school administrators have the balls to say no to the courts, should this not be overruled.

Unless they've had them removed, of course.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
So trans people have to carry papers proving they're doing that?

At the point of enforcement how does one establish what gender they "identify" as?
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why else would a birth certificate male go into the female restroom, wearing drag and possibly without a penis intact?
 
i want to question the sanity of the NC legislature for passing HB2 instead of wait 1 month for this ruling. Now their law has gone to **** and so will their state. Except they do not care about their state and never have. They only care for their own political careers
 
chromium said:
why else would a birth certificate male go into the female restroom, wearing drag and possibly without a penis intact?
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so to enforce the policy administrators will inspect the person's genetalia, what's the scoring rubric for an "intact penis"
 
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