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Appeals Court rules for transgender teen in Virginia bathroom case

danarhea said:
If this gets to SCOTUS, no precedent will be set with a 4-4 split, but this decision will stand. NC misses Scalia, I am sure.
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I suspect Kennedy would side with the group that would uphold the fourth circuit. Alito or Roberts might as well.
 
TurtleDude said:
I suspect Kennedy would side with the group that would uphold the fourth circuit. Alito or Roberts might as well.
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The way I see it, if the equipment has not been changed yet, transgendereds should use the bathroom of the sex they are at that time. After surgery, then the other bathroom would be the appropriate one.
 
danarhea said:
The way I see it, if the equipment has not been changed yet, transgendereds should use the bathroom of the sex they are at that time. After surgery, then the other bathroom would be the appropriate one.
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Neither at that point would be appropriate.
 
Henrin said:
Neither at that point would be appropriate.
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I played at the Last Concert Cafe Sunday Night at 9, then at the Eastdown Warehouse at 11, both in Houston, where this is a real issue. Both venues had a solution. There was a mens room, a ladies room, and a unisex room.
 
danarhea said:
The way I see it, if the equipment has not been changed yet, transgendereds should use the bathroom of the sex they are at that time. After surgery, then the other bathroom would be the appropriate one.
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I think if someone is dressed (whatever that means since most women I know generally are dressing in jeans and t-shirts just like most guys I know when not at work) like their "new gender" and pass for that even if they are (like the guy in crying game) still possessing their original genitalia, then that is ok as well

I think waiting until surgery might be a bit too long
 
danarhea said:
I played at the Last Concert Cafe Sunday Night at 9, then at the Eastdown Warehouse at 11, both in Houston, where this is a real issue. Both venues had a solution. There was a mens room, a ladies room, and a unisex room.
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is that last room where straights hook up? :mrgreen:
 
TurtleDude said:
I think if someone is dressed (whatever that means since most women I know generally are dressing in jeans and t-shirts just like most guys I know when not at work) like their "new gender" and pass for that even if they are (like the guy in crying game) still possessing their original genitalia, then that is ok as well

I think waiting until surgery might be a bit too long
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Well, however it goes down, I don't think there is going to be a Genitalia Police inspecting everybody's crotches. LOL.
 
TurtleDude said:
that is a valid point. I am a big fan of the movie "Glory" and researched the history behind it and its true-when the "colored troops" as they were called back then, bravely took massive casualties trying to take heavily defended Fort Wagner, the Union General officers realized that Black soldiers were brave enough to serve in front line combat-a view that did not exist much at all at the start of the war

The Tuskegee Airmen-officers in fighter planes, proved that Black pilots were brave and skilled -a fact the Germans came to regret. and striking down the idiotic bans on inter-racial marriage didn't cause the world to end either
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yeah the whole equating blacks to subhuman species unworthy of freedom would be destroyed by the sight of black soldiers performing as bravely as any other

The biggest impact for an 'invisible minority' like transgender, though, is if they don't feel persecuted and that there's a witch hunt like the gestapo may barge into their bathroom stall, they won't attempt to remain hidden as much, which is the only way to break down prejudices. They're going thru now what gay people in north carolina did a few years ago (voter ban on gay rights > court reversal > open practice of the new rights > acceptance)
 
danarhea said:
Well, however it goes down, I don't think there is going to be a Genitalia Police inspecting everybody's crotches. LOL.
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a point I made on the original thread. I guess if a female to male has yet to get a pecker, things could be ugly at the urinal but I just don't see that being realistic
 
danarhea said:
I played at the Last Concert Cafe Sunday Night at 9, then at the Eastdown Warehouse at 11, both in Houston, where this is a real issue. Both venues had a solution. There was a mens room, a ladies room, and a unisex room.
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Interesting. I don't imagine that will fly politically though.
 
chromium said:
yeah the whole equating blacks to subhuman species unworthy of freedom would be destroyed by the sight of black soldiers performing as bravely as any other

The biggest impact for an 'invisible minority' like transgender, though, is if they don't feel persecuted and that there's a witch hunt like the gestapo may barge into their bathroom stall, they won't attempt to remain hidden as much, which is the only way to break down prejudices. They're going thru now what gay people in north carolina did a few years ago (voter ban on gay rights > court reversal > open practice of the new rights > acceptance)
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Why would I ever accept someone pretending to be something they are not? I don't generally accept people trying to deceive people.
 
danarhea said:
Well, however it goes down, I don't think there is going to be a Genitalia Police inspecting everybody's crotches. LOL.
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i don't think it's so far fetched when you consider the war on drugs does exactly that on mere suspicion. Such a broad law as the 2 pages in HB2 gives cops and bigots of all kinds incredible leeway. It's enough that many transgender have reported to ACLU they're too afraid to use restrooms in public
 
Henrin said:
Why would I ever accept someone pretending to be something they are not? I don't generally accept people trying to deceive people.
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you don't accept them regardless. A person can be openly gay or trans from age 11-12 or the moment they realize their identity and you will hate on them endlessly. No one is falling for this
 
TurtleDude said:
a point I made on the original thread. I guess if a female to male has yet to get a pecker, things could be ugly at the urinal but I just don't see that being realistic
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aside from the massive football stadium, i haven't seen urinals without partitions in years anyway. It's almost the equivalent of female stalls and it's ridiculous anyone would make this an issue

it's almost unfathomable to me that back in the more homophobic days there was way less privacy (troughs for example) yet to my knowledge there were no laws similar to the one north carolina just passed
 
chromium said:
you don't accept them regardless. A person can be openly gay or trans from age 11-12 or the moment they realize their identity and you will hate on them endlessly. No one is falling for this
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I accept transgenders before treatment. I don't accept them after all this bull**** treatment and their claims about being something they are not. That is not acceptable behavior and I will not go along with it.
 
chromium said:
aside from the massive football stadium, i haven't seen urinals without partitions in years anyway. It's almost the equivalent of female stalls and it's ridiculous anyone would make this an issue

it's almost unfathomable to me that back in the more homophobic days there was way less privacy (troughs for example) yet to my knowledge there were no laws similar to the one north carolina just passed
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I gave up drinking about the time I was sworn in as a municipal prosecutor but lots of the old bars and the INDY 500 men's rooms have what are best called troughs with no dividers
 
Henrin said:
I accept transgenders before treatment. I don't accept them after all this bull**** treatment and their claims about being something they are not. That is not acceptable behavior and I will not go along with it.
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and honestly, why should they or any of the rest of us care? What are you going to do-refuse to sell someone you suspect of being TS a pair of nylons or a bra?
 
TurtleDude said:
and honestly, why should they or any of the rest of us care? What are you going to do-refuse to sell someone you suspect of being TS a pair of nylons or a bra?
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They obviously do care or they wouldn't be pushing for more laws like those found in places like New York where you have to use "proper" pronouns. After all, it's hurtful if you don't accept their lies. lol.

If you really think they're not after acceptance of their little lie then you're not paying attention.

Tell me though, what will happen to an employer in New York city that won't call a MTF employee a she?
 
TurtleDude said:
I think if someone is dressed (whatever that means since most women I know generally are dressing in jeans and t-shirts just like most guys I know when not at work) like their "new gender" and pass for that even if they are (like the guy in crying game) still possessing their original genitalia, then that is ok as well

I think waiting until surgery might be a bit too long
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a lot of transgender don't want or need or can't afford the surgery. One of the plaintiffs in the ACLU north carolina lawsuit fits into this

so it's either a MtF (crossdresser) using the male facilities and pissing at the urinal in drag, or a MtF post op using the male facilities and sitting down in the stall to piss. Those are the options. I can definitely see more assaults happening from the rednecks down there than if they just let the transgender likely go unnoticed into the female stall. That's why, even before going into the removal of sexual orientation protections, this law is so reckless and hateful
 
Henrin said:
They obviously do care or they wouldn't be pushing for more laws like those found in places like New York where you have to use "proper" pronouns. After all, it's hurtful if you don't accept their lies. lol.

If you really think they're not after acceptance of their little lie then you're not paying attention.
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I accept them. so what-how does it hurt me. One of my best friends in HS is now living as a woman after the surgery. She was worried that some of her old friends would not accept what she did. My attitude -if her wife and daughters are OK with it, Who the hell am I to be upset. It wasn't like I was sleeping with this person when he was a guy nor when he was a woman. He was my friend when he was "Martin", she is my friend now that she is Marli. I don't see why it would bother me. why would it bother you?
 
TurtleDude said:
I accept them. so what-how does it hurt me. One of my best friends in HS is now living as a woman after the surgery. She was worried that some of her old friends would not accept what she did. My attitude -if her wife and daughters are OK with it, Who the hell am I to be upset. It wasn't like I was sleeping with this person when he was a guy nor when he was a woman. He was my friend when he was "Martin", she is my friend now that she is Marli. I don't see why it would bother me. why would it bother you?
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Your personal story means nothing to me. Your friend is a man and the fact that they are presenting themselves as something else is something I disapprove of.
 
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