For the Poor Geography is a Matter of Life and Death

chuckiechan · Apr 12, 2016

I represented for customers for sixteen years in the rural southern valley. You get out of town in to the rural areas out there and you see just what I've described. BTW, I said east of Fresno. You are still quite a way north in Modesto.

Many of those regions are people too poor to relocate when they were replaced my mechanization on the farms. Some are labor camps that are still occupied. They survive on food stamps, chickens, and cash day labor. If it weren't for the school bus, no one would ever know they are there.

I think you are the one who needs to get out more. It's been ten years, maybe it has all changed? I doubt it has changed that much.

RetiredUSN · Apr 12, 2016

Jetboogieman said:
A comforting lie many conservatives tell themselves while they cut funding to the poor through assistance programs:

"this will magically get everyone jobs".

But it is a lie nonetheless.

Nothing has changed since the left had the house and senate.

smb · Apr 12, 2016

chuckiechan said:
I represented for customers for sixteen years in the rural southern valley. You get out of town in to the rural areas out there and you see just what I've described. BTW, I said east of Fresno. You are still quite a way north in Modesto.

Many of those regions are people too poor to relocate when they were replaced my mechanization on the farms. Some are labor camps that are still occupied. They survive on food stamps, chickens, and cash day labor. If it weren't for the school bus, no one would ever know they are there.

I think you are the one who needs to get out more. It's been ten years, maybe it has all changed? I doubt it has changed that much.

I will have to take your word for what you say but highly doubt it. If you were as familiar with the area as you say you are you would have known that both Kingsburgh and Chowchilla are nearby Fresno. That being said I covered Bakersfield over to Lancaster up to Truckee on the East and up to Eureka on the West down to Paso Robles. Through all the towns, cities and rural areas. Are there poor settlements...yes but nothing like you describe. No shack cities or shanty towns. The only thing that could be comparable to what you are saying are migrant worker camps. Those are camps though not towns or cities. They are meant to be transitory in nature as the inhabitants move up and down the central valley to pick all the fruits, nuts and sweet potatoes you eat. Do I wish they had better working conditions...yes. You don't achieve that by cutting welfare programs though. You achieve that by cracking down on the farmers that hire them. Something that has finally been happening since Jerry took office and something the central valley farmers are constantly whining about.

chuckiechan · Apr 12, 2016

You didn't ask for a geography lesson, and I didn't even mention your original misspelling of Chowchilla and Kingsburg.

Having said all of that, rural California is much like rural Mexico. Gangs, poverty, drugs, teenage mothers, and democrats, and nothing is getting better.

smb · Apr 12, 2016

chuckiechan said:
You didn't ask for a geography lesson, and I didn't even mention your original misspelling of Chowchilla and Kingsburg.

Having said all of that, rural California is much like rural Mexico. Gangs, poverty, drugs, teenage mothers, and democrats, and nothing is getting better.

Utter nonsense.

As far as the geography lesson yes you did ask for it by ridiculously make a claim about Modesto being far away from Fresno...1hr 40M to be exact.

It is obvious that you have never been to rural Mexico. The central valley is not full of Democrats either. Just the opposite it is, besides parts of San Diego, the only truly Republican stronghold in CA.

Your assessment of what rural CA is exposes your complete ignorance on the subject. What right wing radio windbag is telling you those lies?

chuckiechan · Apr 12, 2016

For your education. This in an example of many hollowed out towns in rural California.

Quick facts: California's changing rural areas - LA Times

Out of my face, please. I didn't dream this up, and I'm not some high school student you can browbeat into agreeing with you.

jmotivator · Apr 12, 2016

Samhain said:
Not really sure what to make of that *.

HAH! That's a pretty big *

"* The following map is not reality, it is filled with wild assumptions we can't hope to actually quantify."

Fearandloathing · Apr 12, 2016

smb said:
The New York Times - Breaking News, World News & Multimedia

You may have to have subscription to the NYTimes to read the article but it is worth posting.

I always here conservatives whine about how liberal always say that conservatives don't care about the poor. That is conservatives that really care about and for the poor and that liberals just want to keep them poor. The correlation between conservative run states and liberal run states on life expectancy of the poor cannot be more obvious. Many places in the very deep red states have worse life expectancies for the poor than places like Rwanda and other third world countries. However I keep hearing that it is liberals that want are making the U.S. a third world country. Go figure...

View attachment 67200077

View attachment 67200080

It's simply impossible that climate might have anything to do with. Without the base figures, these are just colored maps

smb · Apr 12, 2016

Fearandloathing said:
It's simply impossible that climate might have anything to do with. Without the base figures, these are just colored maps

The base figures are available in the link. What base figures do you need on the map of governorships? What does climate have to do with anything?

smb · Apr 12, 2016

chuckiechan said:
For your education. This in an example of many hollowed out towns in rural California.

Quick facts: California's changing rural areas - LA Times

Out of my face, please. I didn't dream this up, and I'm not some high school student you can browbeat into agreeing with you.

Again migrant worker camps. Just remember this the next time your are feeding your face with guacamole during the Super Bowl.

That being said I never stated that were not poor communities in CA. They are not gang infested. There are not a bunch of pregnant teens running around. That is just fantastical nonsense. These are migrant worker communities.

You act like 1 and 4 children in the community being subject to hunger is saying something. It is not. 1 in five households nationwide with children experience hunger. The solution to the problem is NOT cutting welfare. That is just ridiculous.

I am not trying to browbeat you are force you into anything. I will not allow BS to spouted without countering it.

chuckiechan · Apr 12, 2016

Typical liberal putting himself in charge of the truth.

upsideguy · Apr 12, 2016

Μολὼν λαβέ;1065759712 said:
No its not. Read his post again.

It's common knowledge liberal politicians want to keep as many people dependent on government as possible. What was it that LBJ said about making those ni****s vote democrat for the next 200 years?

No, I think you mean "memes"...its a meme amongst Conservative commoners. It it were knowledge or fact, then you would be about to post link to an objective source, but you and I know that is not possible.

Of course, we won't discuss your other ridiculous assertion that LBJ was saying anything about dependency. Your comment is not only way off the mark, but reeks of racism (because it is so off the mark) The legend (and that is all it is) about this comment is about the Voting Rights Act. Of course, when you stick your political neck out to do what's right for a minority, its going to be remembered.

Given that the most educated states in the country tend blue and the least educated tend red, I would suggest that the evidence points to the notion that its the Cons that want to keep people in the dark...as the enlightened and well informed tend to vote Dem.

America?s Most and Least Educated States: A Survey of All 50 - 24/7 Wall St.

smb · Apr 12, 2016

chuckiechan said:
Typical liberal putting himself in charge of the truth.

I am not putting myself in charge of the truth. Just stating facts versus impressions.

clownboy · Apr 12, 2016

smb said:
I am not putting myself in charge of the truth. Just stating facts versus impressions.

Except you're not. You chose the wrong map and fell victim to GIGO (garbage in garbage out). Compare to this map (2012):

SocialD · Apr 12, 2016

smb said:
The New York Times - Breaking News, World News & Multimedia

You may have to have subscription to the NYTimes to read the article but it is worth posting.

I always here conservatives whine about how liberal always say that conservatives don't care about the poor. That is conservatives that really care about and for the poor and that liberals just want to keep them poor. The correlation between conservative run states and liberal run states on life expectancy of the poor cannot be more obvious. Many places in the very deep red states have worse life expectancies for the poor than places like Rwanda and other third world countries. However I keep hearing that it is liberals that want are making the U.S. a third world country. Go figure...

View attachment 67200077

View attachment 67200080

You are taking an article that is about how the rich live longer and trying to match it up with a liberal and conservative thing.
How exactly are you trying to connect the dots? this seems scatter logic at best.
There are a ton of factors regarding life expectancy, income is certainly one of them. when you can afford to eat and eat well, you can afford health care and you can afford to live in areas where crime is lower ( this one is probably more significant than some would think )
I'm sure you have something more of substance than trying to correlate this to an out of date red/blue map?

smb · Apr 12, 2016

clownboy said:
Except you're not. You chose the wrong map and fell victim to GIGO (garbage in garbage out). Compare to this map (2012):

Please provide context for this map. I provided a link to the article that confirms the the relevancy of the map I postes. You just posted some random map that I have not context for. What is the map even telling me. Talk about garbage???????

smb · Apr 12, 2016

SocialD said:
You are taking an article that is about how the rich live longer and trying to match it up with a liberal and conservative thing.
How exactly are you trying to connect the dots? this seems scatter logic at best.
There are a ton of factors regarding life expectancy, income is certainly one of them. when you can afford to eat and eat well, you can afford health care and you can afford to live in areas where crime is lower ( this one is probably more significant than some would think )
I'm sure you have something more of substance than trying to correlate this to an out of date red/blue map?

Of course there is and if you would have bothered to read the article it was not just about rich people living longer. In fact is was almost the opposite. It was a comparison of poor people to poor people and their life expectancy after 40 and how where they live matters a great deal on how long they live. Please refrain from mischaracterizing posts in future that you don't even bother to read nor read the article they are based on.

SocialD · Apr 12, 2016

smb said:
Of course there is and if you would have bothered to read the article it was not just about rich people living longer. In fact is was almost the opposite. It was a comparison of poor people to poor people and their life expectancy after 40 and how where they live matters a great deal on how long they live. Please refrain from mischaracterizing posts in future that you don't even bother to read nor read the article they are based on.

But the Red/Blue map is not in the article. and that was the center of my point.

smb · Apr 12, 2016

SocialD said:
But the Red/Blue map is not in the article. and that was the center of my point.

It was not a red blue map. If you would have bothered to read the post it was a map of states governed by Republicans versus states governed by Democrats. I went further to explain that it is clear representation that policy decisions have consequences. There a is a clear correlation between state governed by Republicans, particularly Republicans who have cut welfare spending to the bone, and the depressed life expectancy of the poor people they govern. Again if you would have bothered to read my posts I was making a correlation not a causation. Later in the thread I provided some information that can go to causation, namely per capita welfare spending. If you have an argument fine but don't shoot at the hip thinking I didn't properly make my correlations especially when it is clear you didn't even bother to read the article nor the thread.

Chomsky · Apr 12, 2016

smb said:
The New York Times - Breaking News, World News & Multimedia

You may have to have subscription to the NYTimes to read the article but it is worth posting.

I always here conservatives whine about how liberal always say that conservatives don't care about the poor. That is conservatives that really care about and for the poor and that liberals just want to keep them poor. The correlation between conservative run states and liberal run states on life expectancy of the poor cannot be more obvious. Many places in the very deep red states have worse life expectancies for the poor than places like Rwanda and other third world countries. However I keep hearing that it is liberals that want are making the U.S. a third world country. Go figure...

<snip>

In a country with fee-for-service/for-profit healthcare, why would these results not be expected?

When one's healthcare is limited by one's financial ability, shouldn't this be the result?

smb · Apr 12, 2016

Chomsky said:
In a country with fee-for-service/for-profit healthcare, why would these results not be expected?

When one's healthcare is limited by one's financial ability, shouldn't this be the result?

No it doesn't. Again this is a comparison of poor people to poor people. We have the same unfortunate healthcare system in CA as in TX. Yet the poor I dying years earlier in TX than they are in CA. This map is NOT a comparison between all economic classes. It only counts people at or below the poverty line in America. The conclusion is if you are poor you are much better of, if you want to live, in blue state rather than a red state.

Grand Mal · Apr 12, 2016

clownboy said:
Except you're not. You chose the wrong map and fell victim to GIGO (garbage in garbage out). Compare to this map (2012):

What is it?

SocialD · Apr 12, 2016

smb said:
No it doesn't. Again this is a comparison of poor people to poor people. We have the same unfortunate healthcare system in CA as in TX. Yet the poor I dying years earlier in TX than they are in CA. This map is NOT a comparison between all economic classes. It only counts people at or below the poverty line in America. The conclusion is if you are poor you are much better of, if you want to live, in blue state rather than a red state.

And it wasn't in the article. just like I said. AND lets look at some of those since you are making it a point. Maine, Idaho, Utah, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Massachusets and others... they don't fit into what you are alleging.
On the other side what about the Dem run states like Louisiana , Missouri, West Virginia.. they don't fit in either.

Notice the areas of the states where the life expectancy is the lowest. with the exception of Vegas its pretty much rural areas. And of course the highest are generally in areas where people with more money would live. Hence poor people generally wouldn't live there.
No, fraid you are trying to make something up that really isn't there.

Chomsky · Apr 12, 2016

smb said:
No it doesn't. Again this is a comparison of poor people to poor people. We have the same unfortunate healthcare system in CA as in TX. Yet the poor I dying years earlier in TX than they are in CA. This map is NOT a comparison between all economic classes. It only counts people at or below the poverty line in America. The conclusion is if you are poor you are much better of, if you want to live, in blue state rather than a red state.

Ah, then I missed that point. My apologies.

It's obviously complex, but I could see the lack of offering the Medicaid expansion as part of the problem, but I'd have to see the historical data (pre/post) expansion.

BTW - I have no free NYT views available to me.

JANFU · Apr 12, 2016

Chomsky said:
Ah, then I missed that point. My apologies.

It's obviously complex, but I could see the lack of offering the Medicaid expansion as part of the problem, but I'd have to see the historical data (pre/post) expansion.

BTW - I have no free NYT views available to me.

Use CC cleaner- I do and read to my hearts content.

For the Poor Geography is a Matter of Life and Death

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