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Supreme Court upholds 'one person, one vote'

That's not what is in the Constitution, which is supposed represent ALL people.

Evenwel v. Abbott was about apportionment based on registered voters, so it violates your stand on representation of children/felons.

Texas, like AZ, has a long history of attempting to deny the vote of minority citizens....further, CA has a much larger foriegn national population than Texas. But again, this case still goes against your stand on all citizens being represented, districts being apportioned by citizen population.

Further still, foreign nationals are still protected by the Constitution, ergo, even they have representative interests

This isn't about race; its about one of the most fundamental rights we have in this country. This proposition boiled down to taxation without representation.

Why should illegal aliens be represented? According to the constitution those that commit a crime do not have to be counted.

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age,15 and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State. affects 2

The above part was modified to include females and those 18 years of age by amendments 19 and 26 respectively, but that was all that was changed.

US Constitution

Illegal aliens most definitely have committed a crime by coming here illegally. They deserve NO representation what so ever.
 
Why should illegal aliens be represented? According to the constitution those that commit a crime do not have to be counted.



The above part was modified to include females and those 18 years of age by amendments 19 and 26 respectively, but that was all that was changed.

US Constitution

Illegal aliens most definitely have committed a crime by coming here illegally. They deserve NO representation what so ever.

That is not what the court ruled.............Read the opinion so you can know what and why they ruled..............and exactly what SCOTUS held
 
That is not what the court ruled.............Read the opinion so you can know what and why they ruled..............and exactly what SCOTUS held

I've read it. Don't care. SCOTUS can only rule on what is put before it. It cannot bring any other type of arguments to the floor. What I have pointed out here was not addressed by SCOTUS in this case.

Now, can you answer my question? Why should illegal aliens be represented?
 
I agree with SCOTUS. The lines should be drawn based on eligible voters, and people that are actually represented by our politicians. Illegals don't count.

At the same time, lets not pretend that the Texas GOP was doing this for the benefit of illegals. It was gerrymandering and vote splitting, as usual.

When is the Fed going to create a law to stop this kind of crap? Along with the long lines and early poll closures? Are we going to wait until it gets so bad that we need to call in UN observers to make sure our elections are fairly conducted?
 
I've read it. Don't care. SCOTUS can only rule on what is put before it. It cannot bring any other type of arguments to the floor. What I have pointed out here was not addressed by SCOTUS in this case.

Now, can you answer my question? Why should illegal aliens be represented?

Why you ask?

Because it is their constitutional right as put forward in the 14th Amendment………….Any questions?
 
I agree with SCOTUS. The lines should be drawn based on eligible voters, and people that are actually represented by our politicians. Illegals don't count.

At the same time, lets not pretend that the Texas GOP was doing this for the benefit of illegals. It was gerrymandering and vote splitting, as usual.

When is the Fed going to create a law to stop this kind of crap? Along with the long lines and early poll closures? Are we going to wait until it gets so bad that we need to call in UN observers to make sure our elections are fairly conducted?


Sorry but I believe SCOTUS ruled just the opposite.............and set down the Texas law which was based on registered voters
 
A friend of mine is going to be in Austin to have her Judgeship reviewed and I think she is honest. I think she is a honest judge. And we all need to support her not only because she is my friend but more importantly because she is a good judge. And her name is.....Demetria Benson.
 
Why you ask?

Because it is their constitutional right as put forward in the 14th Amendment………….Any questions?

Sorry, I just quoted the 14th and showed where it wasn't their right. Might want to read it. Got anything more solid?

As for why do I ask? That should be obvious. 1.6 million illegal aliens in TX alone is going to skew the numbers ALOT. California has over 2 million illegal aliens. Wonder how many republicans would have been elected in California if the democrats didn't have it swayed their way due to gerrymandering.
 
Sorry, I just quoted the 14th and showed where it wasn't their right. Might want to read it. Got anything more solid?

As for why do I ask? That should be obvious. 1.6 million illegal aliens in TX alone is going to skew the numbers ALOT. California has over 2 million illegal aliens. Wonder how many republicans would have been elected in California if the democrats didn't have it swayed their way due to gerrymandering.


You might want to look at the case law...............and while your at it.............the use and meaning of the word "person" in the amendment.............

That is what matters.........not what some think/may want it to mean............


https://www.rt.com/usa/338402-scotus-district-voters-population/
Population, not voters: SCOTUS upholds minority-friendly districting practice

IN DEPTH
SCOTUS unanimously rejects challenge to ‘one person, one vote’
SCOTUS unanimously rejects challenge to 'one person, one vote' | MSNBC


BTW

I believe the SCOTUS held district lines will be drawn ion accord with Constitution............by population

It DID NOT HOLD the folks without papers could vote.........If you're not a citizen.........you cannot vote. Period
 
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The one that the Supreme Court, by a unanimous vote, said was illegal.
You have it backwards. The Republicans were not defending an illegal law, they were challenging the existing law, which the Court ruled was legal. The Court did not rule that you must count illegal aliens, only that a state may do so if it chooses.
 
Sorry, I just quoted the 14th and showed where it wasn't their right. Might want to read it. Got anything more solid?

As for why do I ask? That should be obvious. 1.6 million illegal aliens in TX alone is going to skew the numbers ALOT. California has over 2 million illegal aliens. Wonder how many republicans would have been elected in California if the democrats didn't have it swayed their way due to gerrymandering.

You use the word gerrymandering. Could you explain how you believe that was used in California to elect Democrats?
 
Today the Supreme Court rejected Texas Republicans' unconstitutional attempt at a power grab, by ruling that illegal aliens and non-citizens cannot be counted for the purpose of drawing legislative districts. Here is the punch line. Texas Republicans, who frequently state that the Constitution does not apply to non-citizens, attempted to use the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment here. LMAO.

And this was not a divided vote. It was unanimous. Another defeat for blatant political hackery and attempts to water down minority voting power. Keeping Texas as white as they can was a desperation move from a party that is slowly but surely losing power. All their little tricks and gerrymandering will only prolong the inevitable. Republicans only hope to stay viable in the next decade is to begin to embrace some of the same groups they have been relentlessly attacking. Good luck with that.

NOTE: Roberts and Ginsberg agreeing on something? Who would have thunk it? :mrgreen:

Article is here.

And here is the document of the actual decision.

The mistake they made would not adding the word "Citizen" in their suit when it came to populations. I agree that Illegals should not be counted in the population of a district, being that the fact is that they are not even supposed to be there. So cheer if you wish but you are laughing at your own demise.
 
gerrymandering needs to be banned nationwide, and states that put obstacles in front of voting like long lines / limiting early voting should have control of their elections taken away from them temporarily and handled federally until they get their **** together. those kinds of practices are just shameful and undemocratic.

Would be really easy to write an algorithm to draw the lines, but neither party will go for it.
 
The mistake they made would not adding the word "Citizen" in their suit when it came to populations. I agree that Illegals should not be counted in the population of a district, being that the fact is that they are not even supposed to be there. So cheer if you wish but you are laughing at your own demise.

The 14th Amendment says "PERSON".............you could add any dam thing you want and the decision is still 8-0
 
Yes, some believe Illegals Count, we get that.
 
Why should illegal aliens be represented? According to the constitution those that commit a crime do not have to be counted.



The above part was modified to include females and those 18 years of age by amendments 19 and 26 respectively, but that was all that was changed.

US Constitution

Illegal aliens most definitely have committed a crime by coming here illegally. They deserve NO representation what so ever.
This sounds like Drumpf logic here, where the funds of foreign nationals can be seized.....


Given this record, it is not surprising that many members of
the general public presume that noncitizens do not deserve the
same rights as citizens. II But the presumption is wrong in many
more respects than it is right. While some distinctions between
foreign nationals and citizens are normatively justified and consistent
with constitutional and international law, most are not.
The significance of the citizen/noncitizen distinction is more
often presumed than carefully examined. Upon examination,
there is far less to the distinction than commonly thought. In
particular, foreign nationals are generally entitled to the equal
protection of the laws, to political freedoms of speech and association,
and to due process requirements of fair procedure where
their lives, liberty, or property are at stake.


..............


A third argument commonly heard as a rationale for affording
noncitizens less robust rights protection maintains that because
noncitizens are only "guests"72 who have "come at the
Nation's invitation,'>73 their admission and continuing presence
may be conditioned on whatever constraints the government
chooses to impose. As the Supreme Court once put it, deportation
"is simply a refusal by the Government to harbor persons
whom it does not want. ,,74 If you don't like it, the argument
goes, either don't come, or get out. This argument seeks to transform
what we generally think of as inalienable rights into discretionary
privileges that can be granted or denied at will. It uses
the fact that a foreign national's entry is a privilege to recast re-
strictions on his or her rights here as conditions on the privilege
of entry.
This argument proves too much. It would negate virtually
all constitutional rights of noncitizens, and relegate an entire
class of the populace to a wholly unprotected status. A law mandating
detention of all noncitizens who marry noncitizens of
other races, for example, would be immune from due process,
privacy, and equal protection challenges because it could be defended
as a mere condition on noncitizens' entry. The Supreme
Court has rejected such reasoning, in the immigration area and
elsewhere, precisely because it would allow the government to
achieve indirectly, by attaching conditions to benefits, what it
cannot achieve directly. As the Court stated in 1971 in a case
involving noncitizen rights, "this Court has now rejected the concept
that constitutional rights turn upon whether a governmental
benefit is characterized as a 'right' or as a 'privilege."'7s Under
contemporary constitutional law, equal protection prohibits invidious
discrimination in the allocation of benefits as well as of
rights, and the Court's "unconstitutional conditions" doctrine
provides that the government acts unconstitutionally when even
wholly discretionary benefits are denied because of the recipient's
exercise of constitutional rights.76 Thus, the right-privilege
distinction does not justify a denial of immigrants' rights.

http://scholarship.law.georgetown.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1302&context=facpub
 
This sounds like Drumpf logic here, where the funds of foreign nationals can be seized.....


Given this record, it is not surprising that many members of
the general public presume that noncitizens do not deserve the
same rights as citizens. II But the presumption is wrong in many
more respects than it is right. While some distinctions between
foreign nationals and citizens are normatively justified and consistent
with constitutional and international law, most are not.
The significance of the citizen/noncitizen distinction is more
often presumed than carefully examined. Upon examination,
there is far less to the distinction than commonly thought. In
particular, foreign nationals are generally entitled to the equal
protection of the laws, to political freedoms of speech and association,
and to due process requirements of fair procedure where
their lives, liberty, or property are at stake.


..............


A third argument commonly heard as a rationale for affording
noncitizens less robust rights protection maintains that because
noncitizens are only "guests"72 who have "come at the
Nation's invitation,'>73 their admission and continuing presence
may be conditioned on whatever constraints the government
chooses to impose. As the Supreme Court once put it, deportation
"is simply a refusal by the Government to harbor persons
whom it does not want. ,,74 If you don't like it, the argument
goes, either don't come, or get out. This argument seeks to transform
what we generally think of as inalienable rights into discretionary
privileges that can be granted or denied at will. It uses
the fact that a foreign national's entry is a privilege to recast re-
strictions on his or her rights here as conditions on the privilege
of entry.
This argument proves too much. It would negate virtually
all constitutional rights of noncitizens, and relegate an entire
class of the populace to a wholly unprotected status. A law mandating
detention of all noncitizens who marry noncitizens of
other races, for example, would be immune from due process,
privacy, and equal protection challenges because it could be defended
as a mere condition on noncitizens' entry. The Supreme
Court has rejected such reasoning, in the immigration area and
elsewhere, precisely because it would allow the government to
achieve indirectly, by attaching conditions to benefits, what it
cannot achieve directly. As the Court stated in 1971 in a case
involving noncitizen rights, "this Court has now rejected the concept
that constitutional rights turn upon whether a governmental
benefit is characterized as a 'right' or as a 'privilege."'7s Under
contemporary constitutional law, equal protection prohibits invidious
discrimination in the allocation of benefits as well as of
rights, and the Court's "unconstitutional conditions" doctrine
provides that the government acts unconstitutionally when even
wholly discretionary benefits are denied because of the recipient's
exercise of constitutional rights.76 Thus, the right-privilege
distinction does not justify a denial of immigrants' rights.

http://scholarship.law.georgetown.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1302&context=facpub

Sounds to me like more of an argument to let illegal aliens vote than anything else.

And the person that wrote this sounds more like someone I'd rather punch in the nose than listen to considering he challenged the constitutionality of a statute that prohibits material support to terrorist groups under an obviously stupid premise.

Holder v. Humanitarian Law Project, which challenged the constitutionality of the statute prohibiting “material support” to terrorist groups, which makes speech advocating peace and human rights a crime.

David Cole

Sorry, not going to trust a damn thing he says.
 
Sounds to me like more of an argument to let illegal aliens vote than anything else.
BS straw argument, a bait. Stick it in yer ear.

And the person that wrote this sounds more like someone I'd rather punch in the nose than listen to considering he challenged the constitutionality of a statute that prohibits material support to terrorist groups under an obviously stupid premise.
Well this is consistent, when someone points out the logic of Constitutional protections that contradict knuckle-dragging argument, it causes the clenching of fists. What a knee-jerk reaction, it is reptilian.



David Cole

Sorry, not going to trust a damn thing he says.
You counter an idea.... with a better one. Use your words...if you can't, then study up...and come back when you can.
 
BS straw argument, a bait. Stick it in yer ear.

I read it, that's what it sounds like to me. You are free of course to disagree. :shrug:

Well this is consistent, when someone points out the logic of Constitutional protections that contradict knuckle-dragging argument, it causes the clenching of fists. What a knee-jerk reaction, it is reptilian.

You counter an idea.... with a better one. Use your words...if you can't, then study up...and come back when you can.

Sorry, I don't believe in supporting terrorist groups nor am I going to trust anyone that attempts to help them by spinning. You might, but I don't. :shrug:
 
I read it, that's what it sounds like to me. You are free of course to disagree. :shrug:
And you are free to make any sort of disingenuous bs inferences, to claim I made you see something that isn't there....to distract from the fact that yer desire to deny foreign nationals Constitutional protections. Don't be that guy.



Sorry, I don't believe in supporting terrorist groups nor am I going to trust anyone that attempts to help them by spinning. You might, but I don't. :shrug:
Making sure that any accused is given their equal protections is the point in that case, but again, yer gonna distract from the topic since it is yer want.
 
And you are free to make any sort of disingenuous bs inferences, to claim I made you see something that isn't there....to distract from the fact that yer desire to deny foreign nationals Constitutional protections. Don't be that guy.

Making sure that any accused is given their equal protections is the point in that case, but again, yer gonna distract from the topic since it is yer want.

1: I never claimed that you "made" me do anything. Because you can't. I am my own person and you can't make me do a single thing.

2: Perhaps instead of letting others speak for you maybe you should speak for yourself? What I said regarding illegal aliens was not a challenge on what IS. It was a challenge on how it should be. Understand that and maybe we can move this conversation forward.
 
1: I never claimed that you "made" me do anything. Because you can't. I am my own person and you can't make me do a single thing.
I didn't say you did, I said you can make any sort of disingenuous claim, from "it sounds like" to my making you do something....anything....to distract from WHAT IS ACTUALLY ARGUED, TO CREATE A DIVERSION...OR TO BAIT.

2: Perhaps instead of letting others speak for you maybe you should speak for yourself?
Oh, we can't rely upon experts who have studied a position more deeply? Really....we should keep the argument reptilian and express how we want to beat up someone making Constitutionally sound argument? How about we just take them out and shoot them. Such fascism.
What I said regarding illegal aliens was not a challenge on what IS. It was a challenge on how it should be. Understand that and maybe we can move this conversation forward.
Yeah, diverting....talk of beating up those making counter argument.....yours are the epitome of dialectic pursuit.

We're done here.
 
Illegals, like inmates do not get a vote. You lose that right when you break the law badly enough to be imprisoned or you are not an actual citizen to begin with.
These same people should not be counted in voting district numbers.

This is not rocket science.
Leave it to the Government to overcomplicate something unnecessarily.
 
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