Obama commutes 61 prison sentences

QuadpolarNutjob said:

yay, more drug addicts on our streets, great move obummzie.

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So you think if people are caught using drugs they should be locked in prison for the rest of their lives? What a monster Obama is, right?

NoLeftNoRight said:

Imagine if...as a final gesture of good will towards America, Obama pardoned all Muslim inmates.

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Why would he do that? That's completely irrational and has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of the thread.

PIPEWRENCH said:

Most people who try to tell me drug and alcohol use is victim less are in denial.

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Drug and alcohol use very often is victim less.

To look at it any other way is myopic.

I am a recovered alcoholic. I can't safely drink alcohol in any quantity. When I drink there are "victims". No doubt.

My wife is not an alcoholic. When she drinks people laugh and have a good time, everyone goes to work the next day, the kids don't have to worry about the cops showing up on our doorstep, none of the neighbors have to worry about her throwing their wife in the pool. She can take booze or leave it, drink as much or as little as she wants, and go weeks or months at a time without taking a drink (I frequently throw away bottles of wine she's opened after they've sat in the refrigerator for weeks and turned to vinegar). No "victims".

The latter example, of my wife's drinking, demonstrates how alcohol effects something like 90% of the global population.

I'm an alcoholic, but I'm not a drug addict. I don't mess around with recreational drugs any more (I did when I was drinking) but my pain management doctor keeps me in a constant supply of Percocet for a back pain condition I've dealt with for 20+ years (and for which I've undergone numerous forms of medical therapy including surgery). The Percocet stays in my bathroom drug cabinet and gets used as needed and as prescribed when I'm in pain. It dulls the pain (along with anti-inflammatory meds, topical analgesics, and muscle relaxers), so I can stretch and do yoga stuff and in a couple of days the pain is bearable and I'm off the dope and then a few days later I'm swinging a kettle bell like nothing ever happened. I never feel the need to pop four times the prescribed dosage of medication on any given Friday night for purely recreational purposes. No addiction.

The "substance" - be it alcohol or drugs or gambling or sex or television or video games or shopping or food or whatever - isn't what creates the "victims".

One's behavior in relation to the "substance" is what creates the "victims".

For a person who is not an addict of a given "substance", or for one who doesn't choose to abuse a "substance" irresponsibly (there's a real distinction between addiction and willful abuse, though the outcome of the two can also be the same) there is no harm in using that "substance" recreationally and there is little chance that someone is going to be victimized as a result.

If I go to Vegas I'll drop $200 or $300 (money I can easily afford to lose) playing blackjack or roulette and not feel the need to try to "win it back!!!!" and when I leave town I won't even think about gambling again til I'm down in St. Marteen a couple years later.

I can eat a bowl of ice cream or have a couple cookies without feeling some urge to finish of the carton or box and then run to Krogers for some more.

I can play Minecraft with my eight-year-old without needing to stay up all night to continue playing it.

If you suffer from an addiction to one "substance" or another and you don't get help for your addiction you're going to create problems for yourself and others.

But if you don't suffer from an addiction and choose to use a "substance" occasionally for recreation and don't hurt anyone as a result then nobody got hurt and there's no reason, that I can see, for the government to try to save you from yourself.

soot said:

Drug and alcohol use very often is victim less.

To look at it any other way is myopic.

My wife is not an alcoholic. When she drinks people laugh and have a good time, everyone goes to work the next day, the kids don't have to worry about the cops showing up on our doorstep, none of the neighbors have to worry about her throwing their wife in the pool. She can take booze or leave it, drink as much or as little as she wants, and go weeks or months at a time without taking a drink (I frequently throw away bottles of wine she's opened after they've sat in the refrigerator for weeks and turned to vinegar). No "victims".

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I agree a glass of wine with a meal is fine and victim less. When anyone starts to use alcohol or drugs to have a good time this is the first step towards addiction. If you cannot have the same good time without the drug then the need for the drug is there. When you get to a point where you need a drug you are addicted. It could be caffeine in the morning to wake up. But the need is there. The need becomes a cause of addiction.

You wife appears to be one of the fortunate people who have the ability to have a drink without becoming addicted. If she is truly not addicted then she has no need for the drug. Why bring it home and around an alcoholic if there is no need for the drug? If alcohol were illegal as many drugs are would she still buy and use it subjecting herself and her family to the consequences of breaking the law?

My point is if you use a drug that is illegal and subject yourself to criminal charges and all the life long consequences of such actions you are either addicted or not very smart.

PIPEWRENCH said:

I agree a glass of wine with a meal is fine and victim less. When anyone starts to use alcohol or drugs to have a good time this is the first step towards addiction. If you cannot have the same good time without the drug then the need for the drug is there. When you get to a point where you need a drug you are addicted. It could be caffeine in the morning to wake up. But the need is there. The need becomes a cause of addiction.

You wife appears to be one of the fortunate people who have the ability to have a drink without becoming addicted. If she is truly not addicted then she has no need for the drug. Why bring it home and around an alcoholic if there is no need for the drug? If alcohol were illegal as many drugs are would she still buy and use it subjecting herself and her family to the consequences of breaking the law?

My point is if you use a drug that is illegal and subject yourself to criminal charges and all the life long consequences of such actions you are either addicted or not very smart.

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1st bold: She doesn't need the drug, she wants the drug and can use it without problems. How is that anyone's business? If it were illegal, it would make her a bad person for breaking the law to get a drug that she has no problems with and she wants, but because it is legal that makes it ok? I don't get it.

2nd bold: Or maybe the laws aren't very smart? People shouldn't be viewed as or treated as criminals for using a drug. If addiction is a real problem, they should seek real help. Getting put in prison often hurts more than it helps.

PIPEWRENCH said:

You wife appears to be one of the fortunate people who have the ability to have a drink without becoming addicted. If she is truly not addicted then she has no need for the drug. Why bring it home and around an alcoholic if there is no need for the drug?

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Because she enjoys it and it isn't a problem for her.

If she enjoys and it doesn't cause any problems why on Earth would I want to stand in the way of her enjoying it?

I don't expect the world to revolve around me, or for other people to have to walk around eggshells around me, when it comes to alcohol.

I'm a member of Alcoholics Anonymous, but I am not in any way anonymous when it comes to my alcoholism.

My friends, family, neighbors, colleagues - basically everyone - knows I'm a recovered alcoholic.

I have no desire to drink, I have no obsession with alcohol, I'm careful to ensure that I don't accidentally drink alcohol (both at home and in any other situation where alcohol is available), and alcohol isn't going to pin me down and just sorta jump in to my mouth without me making a conscious decision to drink it.

I don't care whether or not my wife keeps a couple of bottles of wine in our home, or whether my buddies have a couple of beers when we hang out together, or whether it's being served at a wedding or party or other function I choose to attend.

I know that alcohol is poison to me and I would no sooner pick it up and drink it "just because it was there" than you would pick up a bottle of Liquid Draino and drink it.

If alcohol were illegal as many drugs are would she still buy and use it subjecting herself and her family to the consequences of breaking the law?

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Pretty unlikely.

She doesn't use any illegal drugs as it is, though she did when she was younger, so I doubt she would break the law in respect to alcohol.

My point is if you use a drug that is illegal and subject yourself to criminal charges and all the life long consequences of such actions you are either addicted or not very smart.

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To be fair, I've used illegal drugs, and been arrested in possession of illegal drugs, and been arrested numerous times for alcohol-related crimes, and have suffered no significant "life long consequences" as a result.

I earned a graduate degree, hold down a six-figure job, have outstanding credit, own my own home, cars, vacation property, etc...

Could I be doing better still if I had put all my natural talents in to being the absolute "best me I could be" all along?

Maybe.

But maybe if I'd done that from the beginning and had gone to Harvard rather than Rutgers I would have been hit by a bus and killed while walking across Harvard Square with my nose buried in a textbook.

You never know. I think it's pointless, and I choose not to, look back and second guess my life that way.

Now, make no mistake, there have been an awful lot of consequences for the way I've lived my life, some of them terrible, especially related to the effect my behavior has had on other people.

But from just a law enforcement perspective there has been nothing that's affected me long-term to any appreciable degree.

For all the pain and consequences I also had a hell of a lot of fun living my life the way I have and I don't know if that's something I would want to trade for your (society's) idea of how I should have been living my life.

So I'm sort of torn on the idea of it not being very smart to do things that have consequences (even legal consequences).

iguanaman said:

He is putting his actions where his words are and commuting 61 drug offenders sentences. It is a good start.

This surprised me.



Life sentences for drug offenses? That is nuts

Obama commutes 61 prison sentences - CNNPolitics.com

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A nice thought, but nonviolent drug offenders shouldn't have been in prison to begin with. Isn't it more efficient to change the laws that put them there in the first place?

Cardinal said:

A nice thought, but nonviolent drug offenders shouldn't have been in prison to begin with. Isn't it more efficient to change the laws that put them there in the first place?

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Nice thought except a President cannot change existing laws so he is doing the next best thing.

soot said:

Because she enjoys it and it isn't a problem for her.

If she enjoys and it doesn't cause any problems why on Earth would I want to stand in the way of her enjoying it?

I don't expect the world to revolve around me, or for other people to have to walk around eggshells around me, when it comes to alcohol.

I'm a member of Alcoholics Anonymous, but I am not in any way anonymous when it comes to my alcoholism.

My friends, family, neighbors, colleagues - basically everyone - knows I'm a recovered alcoholic.

I have no desire to drink, I have no obsession with alcohol, I'm careful to ensure that I don't accidentally drink alcohol (both at home and in any other situation where alcohol is available), and alcohol isn't going to pin me down and just sorta jump in to my mouth without me making a conscious decision to drink it.

I don't care whether or not my wife keeps a couple of bottles of wine in our home, or whether my buddies have a couple of beers when we hang out together, or whether it's being served at a wedding or party or other function I choose to attend.

I know that alcohol is poison to me and I would no sooner pick it up and drink it "just because it was there" than you would pick up a bottle of Liquid Draino and drink it.



Pretty unlikely.

She doesn't use any illegal drugs as it is, though she did when she was younger, so I doubt she would break the law in respect to alcohol.



To be fair, I've used illegal drugs, and been arrested in possession of illegal drugs, and been arrested numerous times for alcohol-related crimes, and have suffered no significant "life long consequences" as a result.

I earned a graduate degree, hold down a six-figure job, have outstanding credit, own my own home, cars, vacation property, etc...

Could I be doing better still if I had put all my natural talents in to being the absolute "best me I could be" all along?

Maybe.

But maybe if I'd done that from the beginning and had gone to Harvard rather than Rutgers I would have been hit by a bus and killed while walking across Harvard Square with my nose buried in a textbook.

You never know. I think it's pointless, and I choose not to, look back and second guess my life that way.

Now, make no mistake, there have been an awful lot of consequences for the way I've lived my life, some of them terrible, especially related to the effect my behavior has had on other people.

But from just a law enforcement perspective there has been nothing that's affected me long-term to any appreciable degree.

For all the pain and consequences I also had a hell of a lot of fun living my life the way I have and I don't know if that's something I would want to trade for your (society's) idea of how I should have been living my life.

So I'm sort of torn on the idea of it not being very smart to do things that have consequences (even legal consequences).

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We clearly have different views and opinions on the subject. I personally do not drink when I am out with a friend or family member that has a problem with alcohol. I do not need to drink to have a good time so why indulge when in the company of people who cannot. It has been over a year since I had drink anyway. I do not enjoy being around people with a drinking problem. Especially since I am older and the people I know with a drinking problem are older and have died or the problem has escalated. I have the same courtesy for friends with a gambling problem. When we go out to eat I feel no need for it to be at a casino. I don't gamble anyway and there are plenty of places with great food that do not tempt a person with a problem.

I do regret a lot of bad decisions I have made in the past. I have a hip replacement most likely caused by jumping off roofs instead of going down the ladder. My knees hurt from not using knee pads when I was young and bullet proof. I could go on. The fact was I refuse to listen to the wisdom of a father who knew nothing when I was younger. We all have are problems.

Abbazorkzog said:

Why does this surprise you? The only promises he's been unable to make good on has been those torpedoed due to Republican opposition and State Department meddling...

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They're just upset because he commuted the sentences of regular people instead of pardoning political criminals.