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Barack Obama: 'drug addiction is a health problem, not a criminal problem' [W:76]

JasperL said:
Right, you're reading into the statement imaginary actions in the future... Like I said. :roll:
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Past actions are indicative of future actions. All that would be needed is sentencing guidelines to DOJ and prosecutors will tend to follow them. He wants to change the way users are treated by the system. Laudable, but everything should be on the table. His words indicate intent. He intends to take some criminal consequences off the table.
 
Drug addiction can't or won't be treated like a health problem until every known drug to humankind is made legal.

However,

Since so many people in the U.S. believe that if an individual can't afford the cost of an appendectomy out of their pocket - he or she isn't worth living. So if all drugs were legalized then obviously there would be a period of time where there would be a substantial number of casualties and collateral damage. It most likely wouldn't be like watching "Resident Evil" on television. But it will encourage society to understand the difference between chug-a-lugging a six pack of beer versus a six pack of soda pop -- both of which are available at every gas station, grocery store, etc. But I believe eventually society would take an interest in the dynamics of addiction.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Past actions are indicative of future actions. All that would be needed is sentencing guidelines to DOJ and prosecutors will tend to follow them. He wants to change the way users are treated by the system. Laudable, but everything should be on the table. His words indicate intent. He intends to take some criminal consequences off the table.
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I don't know if you're right about the path he'll take, but if he uses his authority as POTUS to do that, I'll applaud it.
 
JasperL said:
I don't know if you're right about the path he'll take, but if he uses his authority as POTUS to do that, I'll applaud it.
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Agree to disagree. I think every tool should be available.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Agree to disagree. I think every tool should be available.
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Ok to disagree, but it's unclear how we make 'every tool' available without a stated change in the priority of dealing with drug addicts (not dealers). As is we simply ARE and have been for decades treating it as primarily a law enforcement issue. If we change that and treat addicts primarily as people needing treatment, unless and until that is made the ONLY option (and no one suggests that now, or proposes that, and no laws have been changed, no EOs issued), then we still have all tools available. We can still arrest people for possession - the laws ARE on the books and will be until Congress acts. So what tools are being taken off the table for prosecutors? I don't see any.
 
JasperL said:
Ok to disagree, but it's unclear how we make 'every tool' available without a stated change in the priority of dealing with drug addicts (not dealers). As is we simply ARE and have been for decades treating it as primarily a law enforcement issue. If we change that and treat addicts primarily as people needing treatment, unless and until that is made the ONLY option (and no one suggests that now, or proposes that, and no laws have been changed, no EOs issued), then we still have all tools available. We can still arrest people for possession - the laws ARE on the books and will be until Congress acts. So what tools are being taken off the table for prosecutors? I don't see any.
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DOJ tends to set sentencing guidelines. Do I need to map out the entire idea?
 
OpportunityCost said:
DOJ tends to set sentencing guidelines. Do I need to map out the entire idea?
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If you like the current approach, that's fine, just say so. Lock em up, hang a criminal record on them, and users come out with a huge anchor on their neck in their efforts to lead a different life. Doesn't seem to be working but maybe you think it's working fine.

If you don't agree it's the best approach, I'm at a loss how it changes without something like what Obama just did, as opposed to your imagined fears about what he might do in the future, cause OBAMA!! And in the last year of a persons presidency is when it can happen - generally too risky in the firs term or even early in the second. I'm hoping it sticks because I don't think our current approach works, and coupled with recently announced plans to maybe move pot of Sched. 1, all good IMO. What I don't know is where you disagree, other than with anything Obama does or MIGHT do.
 
JasperL said:
If you like the current approach, that's fine, just say so. Lock em up, hang a criminal record on them, and users come out with a huge anchor on their neck in their efforts to lead a different life. Doesn't seem to be working but maybe you think it's working fine.

If you don't agree it's the best approach, I'm at a loss how it changes without something like what Obama just did, as opposed to your imagined fears about what he might do in the future, cause OBAMA!! And in the last year of a persons presidency is when it can happen - generally too risky in the firs term or even early in the second. I'm hoping it sticks because I don't think our current approach works, and coupled with recently announced plans to maybe move pot of Sched. 1, all good IMO. What I don't know is where you disagree, other than with anything Obama does or MIGHT do.
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Scaled approach. First time offenders, yes, counseling and a medical approach may be appropriate. Multiple offenses, not so much.
 
Absentglare said:
Based on ...?
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The longer someone has been using and if they have had multiple rehabilitation efforts. Each case will be different; if drug pathology offers any insight, its that's one.
 
I am sympathetic towards those suffering from drug addiction. They are suffering from a disease and shouldn't be thrown into jail.

I am disgusted by those that treat those with substance abuse issues like garbage, practically sub-human. Instead of demonizing our brothers and sisters, we should be helping them. Our society works best when we work together.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Scaled approach. First time offenders, yes, counseling and a medical approach may be appropriate. Multiple offenses, not so much.
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First of all, you still haven't expressed any objection to what Obama did other than to what you imagine he might do in the future.

Second, first time offenders for dealing or using/possession? If the latter, they're addicts and even with treatment, most will relapse. It's the nature of the beast. So why would jail work better on offense #2? If they're robbing little old ladies or other crimes, fine, charge them with those crimes. If not, why arrest and jail someone for merely possessing illegal drugs?
 
JasperL said:
First of all, you still haven't expressed any objection to what Obama did other than to what you imagine he might do in the future.

Second, first time offenders for dealing or using/possession? If the latter, they're addicts and even with treatment, most will relapse. It's the nature of the beast. So why would jail work better on offense #2? If they're robbing little old ladies or other crimes, fine, charge them with those crimes. If not, why arrest and jail someone for merely possessing illegal drugs?
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Because someone that is habitually on a controlled substance is a danger to themselves, everyone around them and society. By controlled substance I am referring to the near instant addiction, life destroying drugs, not pot.

Regarding Obama, when that sort of language comes down from leadership, changes in sentencing from DOJ is the next step. Its a common practice. The real, best change should be to require supervised treatment where they cant just check out and avoid it as part of a criminal sentence.
 
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