• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Dutch lawmaker Wilders in court on hate speech charges

zimmer

Educating the Ignorant
Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 19, 2008
Messages
24,380
Reaction score
7,805
Location
Worldwide
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
What constitutes "hate speech" that would generate a court case in The Netherlands?
The case against Wilders, who was acquitted in 2011 of insulting Islam, centers on comments made before and after 2014 local elections. At one party meeting he asked supporters whether they wanted more or fewer Moroccans in the Netherlands, drawing them into the chant of "Fewer! Fewer! Fewer!"


"We'll take care of it," he replied.

What a waste of court time.

Reminds me of the perverted attempt by the Kanuckistani's to do the same to Mark Steyn.

And those from The Religion of Peace would like to treat Wilders like Theo van Gogh.

...Wilders' anti-Islam Freedom Party standing atop opinion polls a year ahead of Dutch parliamentary elections...
 
What constitutes "hate speech" that would generate a court case in The Netherlands? What a waste of court time. Reminds me of the perverted attempt by the Kanuckistani's to do the same to Mark Steyn. And those from The Religion of Peace would like to treat Wilders like Theo van Gogh.
Those who advocate 'hate speech' now will not feel quite the same about it when another group gainds power and they'll be able to define what constitutes hate speech according to their whims.

Seems we like the same guy! (Another Canadian btw!)http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/25/world/europe/spain-europe-protest-free-speech.html?_r=0

"Stay Quiet and You'll Be Okay" :: SteynOnline

GAGGING US SOFTLY :: SteynOnline
 
Those who advocate 'hate speech' now will not feel quite the same about it when another group gainds power and they'll be able to define what constitutes hate speech according to their whims.

Seems we like the same guy! (Another Canadian btw!)http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/25/world/europe/spain-europe-protest-free-speech.html?_r=0

"Stay Quiet and You'll Be Okay" :: SteynOnline

GAGGING US SOFTLY :: SteynOnline

Problem is, those on the right are tolerant... and having been at the receiving end of all manner of BS... we know the only way to convert those lost... is via free speech.

The hemophiliacs called Socialists, and others like them... Islamofascists (they're not that far apart)... well... there is a reason they want speech to be regulated. It's yet another weapon in their arsenal to club those who don't toe-the-line. Look at what the Obama administration looked at with those who believe Global Warming is a massive and perverted hoax.

Steyn... the guy is brilliant.

25speech-web1-master675.jpg

A rally in Madrid this month protested the arrests of two puppeteers accused of glorifying terrorism and promoting hatred. The puppeteers could face up to seven years in prison. Credit Fernando Alvarado/European Pressphoto Agency

(SICK... but that's Europe, and that's what the Socialists in Amerika want to bring here).
 
Last edited:
25speech-web1-master675.jpg

A rally in Madrid this month protested the arrests of two puppeteers accused of glorifying terrorism and promoting hatred. The puppeteers could face up to seven years in prison. Credit Fernando Alvarado/European Pressphoto Agency

That is anti government protesting not "hate speech". The conservative right wing government put in place laws that made it much harder to protest government and making it a crime to target state officials (elected or not). Lets put it this way.. dont take a picture of a cop car here.. could land you a fine.

That is what the right wing does to so called free speech.
 
What constitutes "hate speech" that would generate a court case in The Netherlands?


What a waste of court time.

Reminds me of the perverted attempt by the Kanuckistani's to do the same to Mark Steyn.

And those from The Religion of Peace would like to treat Wilders like Theo van Gogh.

I think it definitely destructive of democratic function to have such laws.
 
Those who advocate 'hate speech' now will not feel quite the same about it when another group gainds power and they'll be able to define what constitutes hate speech according to their whims.

Seems we like the same guy! (Another Canadian btw!)http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/25/world/europe/spain-europe-protest-free-speech.html?_r=0

"Stay Quiet and You'll Be Okay" :: SteynOnline

GAGGING US SOFTLY :: SteynOnline

Many people do not understand how important that realization is.
 
What constitutes "hate speech" that would generate a court case in The Netherlands?


What a waste of court time.

Reminds me of the perverted attempt by the Kanuckistani's to do the same to Mark Steyn.

And those from The Religion of Peace would like to treat Wilders like Theo van Gogh.

I disagree, it is a very useful use of court time (especially because the case will be done in a few weeks with only a few days of court proceedings, at least that is the norm even for murder trials).

I think he should be fined only for his words, he planned this from start to finish and that kind of hate mongering against one group of people (not one faith, that would have been somewhat different, also reprehensible but that would most likely not have lead to a court case). But who knows, he may also be found not guilty.
 
I disagree, it is a very useful use of court time (especially because the case will be done in a few weeks with only a few days of court proceedings, at least that is the norm even for murder trials). I think he should be fined only for his words, he planned this from start to finish and that kind of hate mongering against one group of people (not one faith, that would have been somewhat different, also reprehensible but that would most likely not have lead to a court case). But who knows, he may also be found not guilty.
The process is the punishment whether Wilders is found guilty or not. No politician or journalist will dare to speak up if the government is watching their words for any sign of "hate". It will cost Wilders a great deal of time and money to defend himself against these charges so the outcome is less important than the political statement the government is making.

Here's a history lesson for some Europeans. National Review Online
 
I think it definitely destructive of democratic function to have such laws.
Exactly. They don't belong in any democracy. Good ideas will eventually win out over bad ideas without the government defining which speech is acceptable or not. This is closer to tyranny than democracy.

Be grateful for US influence and the First Amendment. Europe is a continuing example of what can happen without these restrictions being placed on governments.
 
That is anti government protesting not "hate speech". The conservative right wing government put in place laws that made it much harder to protest government and making it a crime to target state officials (elected or not). Lets put it this way.. dont take a picture of a cop car here.. could land you a fine. That is what the right wing does to so called free speech.
This is not right wing or left wing, it is European governments running scared from Muslims and their possible retaliation at being 'offended'. It applies to all western European governments who realize, too late, that the genie is out of the bottle. What idiocy!
 
Many people do not understand how important that realization is.
It is a realization only because I've read books and articles by some very smart people who have inspired millions like ourselves to express our thoughts and ideas, no matter how society viewed them at the time or how different they might be. It's not ideas that are dangerous but the enforcement of them.

That enforcement is what's happening across Europe now and, to an extent, in North America as well. The fight for freedom of expression goes back a long way. John Milton gave a speech before Parliament defending the right of freedom of speech in which he likened the government censors to an oligarchy and free speech to a flowery crop of knowledge (1644) | The Portable Library of Liberty
 
Exactly. They don't belong in any democracy. Good ideas will eventually win out over bad ideas without the government defining which speech is acceptable or not. This is closer to tyranny than democracy.

Be grateful for US influence and the First Amendment. Europe is a continuing example of what can happen without these restrictions being placed on governments.

It is odd that so many in the forum and in the wider public especially in the European populations miss this and continuously praise the systems of continental Europe.
 
This is not right wing or left wing, it is European governments running scared from Muslims and their possible retaliation at being 'offended'. It applies to all western European governments who realize, too late, that the genie is out of the bottle. What idiocy!

No the idiocy is you not looking at the freaking picture.

See the 15M? That is logo for the Spanish protest group against austerity. The picture has absolutely nothing to do with Muslims as the protest is against the sitting RIGHT WING Spanish government and their policies. This same RIGHT WING government has implemented the law that makes it possible for the people in the picture to be charged with "glorifying terror and promoting hatred". Guess what that terror is? Because the movement protects people from evictions across the country which the government sees as terror and the hatred part is hatred against the RIGHT WING political party and Spanish government. Why puppets? It is an attempt to by pass the gag law that the RIGHT WING government put in place in 2014

So please in future take your muslim hatred and stick to the freaking facts..
 
No the idiocy is you not looking at the freaking picture.

See the 15M? That is logo for the Spanish protest group against austerity. The picture has absolutely nothing to do with Muslims as the protest is against the sitting RIGHT WING Spanish government and their policies. This same RIGHT WING government has implemented the law that makes it possible for the people in the picture to be charged with "glorifying terror and promoting hatred". Guess what that terror is? Because the movement protects people from evictions across the country which the government sees as terror and the hatred part is hatred against the RIGHT WING political party and Spanish government. Why puppets? It is an attempt to by pass the gag law that the RIGHT WING government put in place in 2014

So please in future take your muslim hatred and stick to the freaking facts..
Point taken. But it is still a government threatening protesters with criminal charges and possible jail terms. This is what's happening in Europe.

Muslim hatred?? Are you planning on having me arrested? At least when you offend me I don't go over to your workplace to murder you and your colleagues..
 
It is odd that so many in the forum and in the wider public especially in the European populations miss this and continuously praise the systems of continental Europe.

Sorry, but this is just one tiny aspect of the entirety that makes up a European country. And I like that there is level at which misusing freedom of speech can be prosecuted. But the times that should happen should be as infrequent as possible and only for people who are calling for violent attacks and things like this. Freedom of speech should not be limitless IMO, I do not want neo nazi's or KKK members in Europe marching the streets calling for the Europe to kick out all the black people (especially not by idiots in white sheets who call black people monkeys or inferior mongrels). Sorry, but you can say that in your own home or among your own friends but if you make public spectacles of your hatred and promote violence and terror against people for the color of their skin like the KKK does, than there should be a law that can hold the people who promote racist violence in public accountable.

But again, that is my opinion and it is just as much a part of our Judeo Christian laws as is freedom of speech (which in all reality was never a Christian principle unless of course you agreed with the church.
 
Sorry, but this is just one tiny aspect of the entirety that makes up a European country. And I like that there is level at which misusing freedom of speech can be prosecuted. But the times that should happen should be as infrequent as possible and only for people who are calling for violent attacks and things like this. Freedom of speech should not be limitless IMO, I do not want neo nazi's or KKK members in Europe marching the streets calling for the Europe to kick out all the black people (especially not by idiots in white sheets who call black people monkeys or inferior mongrels). Sorry, but you can say that in your own home or among your own friends but if you make public spectacles of your hatred and promote violence and terror against people for the color of their skin like the KKK does, than there should be a law that can hold the people who promote racist violence in public accountable.

But again, that is my opinion and it is just as much a part of our Judeo Christian laws as is freedom of speech (which in all reality was never a Christian principle unless of course you agreed with the church.

I run into that opinion a lot in Europe. It seems the idea prevails that government knows better and that by forbidding it instead of arguing against a position society can defeat it. That defeats one of the major strengths of democracy and robs it of its legitimacy.
 
I disagree, it is a very useful use of court time (especially because the case will be done in a few weeks with only a few days of court proceedings, at least that is the norm even for murder trials).

I think he should be fined only for his words, he planned this from start to finish and that kind of hate mongering against one group of people (not one faith, that would have been somewhat different, also reprehensible but that would most likely not have lead to a court case). But who knows, he may also be found not guilty.
Regardless if set up or not... this is absurd beyond belief.
 
I think it definitely destructive of democratic function to have such laws.

So long as you are not inciting violence... then let's hear what someone has to say.

This Speech Kontrolle crap is Stalinist in nature.
 
That is anti government protesting not "hate speech". The conservative right wing government put in place laws that made it much harder to protest government and making it a crime to target state officials (elected or not). Lets put it this way.. dont take a picture of a cop car here.. could land you a fine.

That is what the right wing does to so called free speech.

Throughout history, it is actually typical of Left Wingers to restrict speech.

Leftists... When they cannot control speech through the force of law, try to do it through their PC movement. Trump has smashed a good part of the bull**** to death... Thank God someone finally took on the idiotic left and their PC Speek.

Just recently we learned the Obama Klan was looking at ways to prosecute global warming deniers.
 
If this guy is going to exploit Mohammed cartoons, it's only fair to compare how closely he resembles one of the guys from the Ant Hill Mob:

banner-boek-breed-eng.jpg


yakyak.jpeg
 
So long as you are not inciting violence... then let's hear what someone has to say.

This Speech Kontrolle crap is Stalinist in nature.

It is actually one of the things socialists and fascists agree on.
 
I run into that opinion a lot in Europe. It seems the idea prevails that government knows better and that by forbidding it instead of arguing against a position society can defeat it. That defeats one of the major strengths of democracy and robs it of its legitimacy.

No, the laws where made by the people by voting in the members of parliament who they trusted to make the rules and constitution.

And I think it enforces the strengths of democracy that it is not only freedom but it is also about respect, honoring and civil/human rights.
 
Regardless if set up or not... this is absurd beyond belief.

That may be your opinion, I disagree with that opinion but that is why the laws are like they are in the US (as decided by US voters) and the laws are like they are in the Netherlands (as decided by the Dutch).
 
No, the laws where made by the people by voting in the members of parliament who they trusted to make the rules and constitution.

And I think it enforces the strengths of democracy that it is not only freedom but it is also about respect, honoring and civil/human rights.

Sorry, the Wilders case(s) reveal there is not respect for free speech. It illustrates intolerance, closed mindedness, and is dangerous... and in this case Muslims are exploiting this idiocy.

How many Imams or Muslims have been hauled before the court? Don't tell me there isn't anything from the mouths of Muslims that trumps Wilders.

What about the Muslim mayor of Rotterdam who told Muslims to **** off... in those precise words? Did he get hauled before the court? Why not?

Let people preach whatever they want... even if it is true hate... I prefer it that way. Then we can identify scum easily.

It really is dangerous to go down the road of wondering what you can and cannot say. "...more Moroccans or fewer...?" Hate speech my ass.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom