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Venezuela to Shut Down for a Week to Cope With Electricity Crisis

Fenton said:
It doesn't transcend ideology that's for sure.
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Depends on what we are talking about with ideology. Socialism as an economic model clearly failed them, they based too much of their fiscal demands on oil prices staying high. Once oil prices completely collapsed, so did their fiscal condition. Saudi Arabia effectively killed Venezuela, by destroying their national interests.

But worse than all of that was their own government betrayed them, marred in the extremes of corruption. The overwhelming majority of the wealth of that nation was held in US dollars and held in various institutions outside of Venezuela. The government itself held wealth taken from Venezuela, and held that collection somewhere else as well.

In the end they will end up in the history books for a failed economic model and disastrous monetary policy decisions, but all at the hands of the typical aristocracy that develops with any form of centralized overreaching government power.

That is why Venezuela's failure transcends economics, the principles of a planned economic model were discarded for wealth gains by and protections of the few elites. That sound familiar, it should?
 
PakPuk said:
So yes you mean capitalist democratic countries with a socialist government. Thanks for confirming.
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Nope. I said most successful countries, like the United States, take from each system.

But it's obvious you don't want to hear the truth, in your conservative AM radio world, all socialism is bad, all capitalism is good. So all you got is 1 sentence replies that have nothing to do with what I wrote.

Good Day.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Nope. I said most successful countries, like the United States, take from each system.

But it's obvious you don't want to hear the truth, in your conservative AM radio world, all socialism is bad, all capitalism is good. So all you got is 1 sentence replies that have nothing to do with what I wrote.

Good Day.
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Name one country that in your mind is a socialist country which has a democracy then?
 
PakPuk said:
Venezuela is shutting down for a week as the government struggles with a deepening electricity crisis.
President Nicolas Maduro gave everyone an extra three days off work next week, extending the two-day Easter holiday, according to a statement in the Official Gazette published late Tuesday. Maduro had originally said over the weekend that the extended holiday would only apply to state employees.

Venezuela to Shut Down for a Week to Cope With Electricity Crisis - Bloomberg Business
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I wonder is Venezuela's American admirers ever have a crisis of conscience when they realize that the former president of the failed, impoverished state somehow managed to cobble together an estate worth billions of dollars that he gave... to his daughter.

I guess that's the magic of socialist regimes and holistic medicine pushers, nobody really gets the full scale of the con until you are already dead.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Nope. I said most successful countries, like the United States, take from each system.

But it's obvious you don't want to hear the truth, in your conservative AM radio world, all socialism is bad, all capitalism is good. So all you got is 1 sentence replies that have nothing to do with what I wrote.

Good Day.
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Nah, its just that capitalism has worked better than anything else that's been tried so far.
 
David_N said:
Fenton is lying about what MMT advocates believe.
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It does not matter, Venezuela cannot print themselves out of debt.
While debasing the currency carries a different connotation than in history,
the economic effects are the same.
 
longview said:
It does not matter, Venezuela cannot print themselves out of debt.
While debasing the currency carries a different connotation than in history,
the economic effects are the same.
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Hold on the magic money tree does not work?:lol:
 
WCH said:
Must have run out of other people's money.
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OOOOR the much worshiped capitalist 'unicorn'- the free market invisible hand has driven the world wide oil bus off the same cliff the financial institution's invisible hand drove our credit system off of.

PUB controlled Oklahoma is shutting down services, cutting school district payments (not just next years budgets but THIS years budget- the school year that has already been planned and contracts tendered :shock: , health services, even the VA is facing services being curtailed. Can't blame socialism for Oklahoma's woes- been a solid PUB state for quite some time. When the oil economy was booming Gov. Fallin strutted around proclaiming the superiority of PUB state management- cutting taxes and offering bribes for businesses to leave a fellow state and relocate to the Sooner state.

Now my state is deep in red ink and should be grateful an 'over reaching' Federal government is there...

I'd say the political system isn't as much to blame by out of control capitalism wreaking havoc near and far... :peace
 
notquiteright said:
OOOOR the much worshiped capitalist 'unicorn'- the free market invisible hand has driven the world wide oil bus off the same cliff the financial institution's invisible hand drove our credit system off of.

PUB controlled Oklahoma is shutting down services, cutting school district payments (not just next years budgets but THIS years budget- the school year that has already been planned and contracts tendered :shock: , health services, even the VA is facing services being curtailed. Can't blame socialism for Oklahoma's woes- been a solid PUB state for quite some time. When the oil economy was booming Gov. Fallin strutted around proclaiming the superiority of PUB state management- cutting taxes and offering bribes for businesses to leave a fellow state and relocate to the Sooner state.

Now my state is deep in red ink and should be grateful an 'over reaching' Federal government is there...

I'd say the political system isn't as much to blame by out of control capitalism wreaking havoc near and far... :peace
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Oklahoma and Venezuela have something in common: neither one planned very well.
 
notquiteright said:
OOOOR the much worshiped capitalist 'unicorn'- the free market invisible hand has driven the world wide oil bus off the same cliff the financial institution's invisible hand drove our credit system off of.

PUB controlled Oklahoma is shutting down services, cutting school district payments (not just next years budgets but THIS years budget- the school year that has already been planned and contracts tendered :shock: , health services, even the VA is facing services being curtailed. Can't blame socialism for Oklahoma's woes- been a solid PUB state for quite some time. When the oil economy was booming Gov. Fallin strutted around proclaiming the superiority of PUB state management- cutting taxes and offering bribes for businesses to leave a fellow state and relocate to the Sooner state.

Now my state is deep in red ink and should be grateful an 'over reaching' Federal government is there...

I'd say the political system isn't as much to blame by out of control capitalism wreaking havoc near and far... :peace
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OOOORRRR the oil cartel tried to create a monopoly and the oil glut we are seeing is an attempt by them to re-exert control. It has a lot less to do with free markets than it does with attempts to corral free markets and control them.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
I never said it didn't. I said countries with successful economies take from both systems.

Venezuela's problem was Chavez, pure and simple.
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Is it ever going to be possible to have government with that much power able to administer that power equitably without corruption? Every example we have seems to say no its not, the corruption becomes insurmountable eventually.
 
OpportunityCost said:
OOOORRRR the oil cartel tried to create a monopoly and the oil glut we are seeing is an attempt by them to re-exert control. It has a lot less to do with free markets than it does with attempts to corral free markets and control them.
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And there in lies the the big lie about 'invisible hands' and so-called free markets. most often a free market means letting a few super conglomerates have a free run to attempt to gain control over dangerous amounts of an economic sector.

The usual net result is a crash, increased costs to governments- from lost tax revenue to increased unemployment. I have to take a rather grim view of the Conservative mantra of 2008- DRILL BABY DRILL. They claimed we needed to open up federal wildlife refuges, off shore, deep water, granny's backyard to 'beat those OPEC bastages' and secure our energy independence... :roll:

Oklahoma was being rocked daily by earthquakes- the corporations looked the other way while the State pushed private sector earthquake insurance instead of holding the fracking companies responsible. The reward for allowing the oil industry that 'free hand' is a collapsed oil industry Oklahoma relies on, collapsed revenue, trickle down unemployment (while many never saw a trickle down from the Reagan years many are certainly seeing a injurious trickle down from the PUB con game of turn the 'job creators' loose!)

It is interesting- some Conservatives harp on the piss poor planning of socialist countries when conservative states that are much touted by these Conservatives, collapse like a house of cards FOR THE EXACT SAME REASONS...

well they just can't seem to see that... :peace
 
OpportunityCost said:
Is it ever going to be possible to have government with that much power able to administer that power equitably without corruption? Every example we have seems to say no its not, the corruption becomes insurmountable eventually.
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Ever seen ANY form of government that was free of corruption???
 
notquiteright said:
And there in lies the the big lie about 'invisible hands' and so-called free markets. most often a free market means letting a few super conglomerates have a free run to attempt to gain control over dangerous amounts of an economic sector.

The usual net result is a crash, increased costs to governments- from lost tax revenue to increased unemployment. I have to take a rather grim view of the Conservative mantra of 2008- DRILL BABY DRILL. They claimed we needed to open up federal wildlife refuges, off shore, deep water, granny's backyard to 'beat those OPEC bastages' and secure our energy independence... :roll:

Oklahoma was being rocked daily by earthquakes- the corporations looked the other way while the State pushed private sector earthquake insurance instead of holding the fracking companies responsible. The reward for allowing the oil industry that 'free hand' is a collapsed oil industry Oklahoma relies on, collapsed revenue, trickle down unemployment (while many never saw a trickle down from the Reagan years many are certainly seeing a injurious trickle down from the PUB con game of turn the 'job creators' loose!)

It is interesting- some Conservatives harp on the piss poor planning of socialist countries when conservative states that are much touted by these Conservatives, collapse like a house of cards FOR THE EXACT SAME REASONS...

well they just can't seem to see that... :peace
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Even assuming that "a few super conglomerates have a free run" is actually true (it's not), it undercuts the entire argument for socialism which creates a single, unified super conglomerate with more power than any of the conglomerates before it.

The government will always be the biggest monopoly in any country.
 
notquiteright said:
And there in lies the the big lie about 'invisible hands' and so-called free markets. most often a free market means letting a few super conglomerates have a free run to attempt to gain control over dangerous amounts of an economic sector.

The usual net result is a crash, increased costs to governments- from lost tax revenue to increased unemployment. I have to take a rather grim view of the Conservative mantra of 2008- DRILL BABY DRILL. They claimed we needed to open up federal wildlife refuges, off shore, deep water, granny's backyard to 'beat those OPEC bastages' and secure our energy independence... :roll:

Oklahoma was being rocked daily by earthquakes- the corporations looked the other way while the State pushed private sector earthquake insurance instead of holding the fracking companies responsible. The reward for allowing the oil industry that 'free hand' is a collapsed oil industry Oklahoma relies on, collapsed revenue, trickle down unemployment (while many never saw a trickle down from the Reagan years many are certainly seeing a injurious trickle down from the PUB con game of turn the 'job creators' loose!)

It is interesting- some Conservatives harp on the piss poor planning of socialist countries when conservative states that are much touted by these Conservatives, collapse like a house of cards FOR THE EXACT SAME REASONS...

well they just can't seem to see that... :peace
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Oh, ok. Please see North Dakota. They set a rainy day fund, they prepared for the revenue drop; they planned. Rant much?
 
David_N said:
You are claiming that MMT supporters believe Venezuela and any country can simply print money to solve any problem. This isn't what MMT supporters claim, at all. A stimulus does indeed increase aggregate demand, this is not debatable.
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MMTers believe we can print our way to prosperity via fiscal stimulus and growing Govt.

They use monetary theory to justify purely ideological solutions Solutiona that are being peddled by hacks like Bernie Sanders.

Bigger Govt and a exponential increase in spending ( debt )
 
Venezuela's economic issues stem from Authoritarianism, not Socialism.

:roll:
 
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