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Prayer Dispute Between Somalis and Plant Reshapes a Colorado Town, Again

Lursa said:
Then why cant I get 10 minute breaks during my day (outside of the legally mandated ones) where I'm not 'judged' for not doing my job?
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Why can't you? Why haven't you asked? Most places I know allow employees a smoke break here and there or 15 minute paid breaks outside of their 30-60 minute break. Sorry if your employer doesn't allow that.
 
faithful_servant said:
I think that their policy is discriminatory towards non-Muslims. If they grant breaks on demand to Muslims, then they should be granting breaks on demand to everyone. .
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Who else would need a specific time off to pray besides Muslims? Christians certainly don't need a specific break to pray.
 
pinqy said:
Who else would need a specific time off to pray besides Muslims? Christians certainly don't need a specific break to pray.
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I believe atheists would be allowed 10 minute breaks to check on their iphones.
 
akrunner88 said:
Why can't you? Why haven't you asked? Most places I know allow employees a smoke break here and there or 15 minute paid breaks outside of their 30-60 minute break. Sorry if your employer doesn't allow that.
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Yeah, the smoke breaks are bull**** too. And again: you can ask...and then very often be judged as just being a slacker.

And there are 2 mandated 15 minute breaks for hourly employees in the middle of 8 hr work days by law. Why cant those accommodate the Muslims? And smokers? There's before and after work too. Boom....there ya go: 4 time periods to fulfill your beliefs.
 
Lursa said:
Yeah, the smoke breaks are bull**** too. And again: you can ask...and then very often be judged as just being a slacker.

And there are 2 mandated 15 minute breaks for hourly employees in the middle of 8 hr work days by law. Why cant those accommodate the Muslims? And smokers? There's before and after work too. Boom....there ya go: 4 time periods to fulfill your beliefs.
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No way, they need those smoke breaks too! ;)
 
JANFU said:
In Canada it is called "Duty to Accommodate" and calls for the employer to make a reasonable accommodation.
If it causes a substantial change to business, to other employees having an extra and undue burden placed upon them, such as having to always work weekends, when they did not have to previously - I am referring to rotating shift work- then the employer can refuse.
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As long as things remain fair to all employees and productivity is not affected significantly, I'm not opposed to reasonable accommodations. Without such a requirement, it leaves the door open to discrimination on the part of the employer, or abuse on the end of the employee in question (demanding unreasonable or unfair accommodations). I see this falling into the same category as when SSM became legal, and some religious people, who's job it is to give marriage licenses to legally eligible couples, refused to give marriage licenses to legally eligible couples. And when these people were called out on it, they tried to make it out to be some persecution of the faithful bull****. I realize there are a ton of differences between these 2 scenarios, but the underlying concept is present in both. If your religion prevents you from consistently fulfilling your jobs responsibilities, then your in the wrong line of work.
 
shagg said:
I think a lot of people misunderstand the 1st amendment. Freedom of religion does not equate to "Everyone is required to accommodate every nuance of my religion in every aspect in life. If my job responsibilities must be redefined because my religion keeps me from meeting them consistently, then my employer is obligated to do so and can not fire me"

I haven't followed the industry much, but i know 10-15 years ago experience in the meat/butchering industry was both valuable and highly portable. The loser here is Cargill, and its all over an inflated sense of religious entitlement.
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It is a huge facility complete with railroad tracks, feed yards, barns and a huge meat processing center. This place is hundreds of acres.
 
shagg said:
I think a lot of people misunderstand the 1st amendment. Freedom of religion does not equate to "Everyone is required to accommodate every nuance of my religion in every aspect in life. If my job responsibilities must be redefined because my religion keeps me from meeting them consistently, then my employer is obligated to do so and can not fire me"

I haven't followed the industry much, but i know 10-15 years ago experience in the meat/butchering industry was both valuable and highly portable. The loser here is Cargill, and its all over an inflated sense of religious entitlement.
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Well, I think the issue is that people think all religious questions are First ammendment issues. This is not..this is a civil rights issue of reasonable accomodation.

An employer cannot make you have to choose between your job and your religion unless the accomodations you want would hurt the business.
 
akrunner88 said:
Why can't you? Why haven't you asked? Most places I know allow employees a smoke break here and there or 15 minute paid breaks outside of their 30-60 minute break. Sorry if your employer doesn't allow that.
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Unofficial smoke breaks have driven me to the point of insanity at certain points of my life (I have never been a smoker). I worked in a pizza joint for 12 years, and the owner was a smoker as well as several employees. Let me tell you how happy I was to watch the store solo for 10-15 minutes so 2 other people could go chat and smoke, somewhere between 3 and 6 times in an 8 hour shift. I work in a hospital now, and it's not as bad, but its still there. If you smoke, you can squeeze an extra break or 3 into your day to indulge in your habit. How is that fair to non smokers, who have to work harder to pick up the slack while the smokers are taking their breaks, and who get no extra breaks themselves?

If you'd rather take 3 10 minute breaks to smoke, pray, floss, jog, or whatever instead of a 30 minute lunch, then sure, that's fair (assuming the work doesn't have to stop when 1 person takes a break, assembly line, certain parts of construction, etc.).

If you want those breaks on top of your normal lunch, that's simply not fair to non smokers.
 
shagg said:
Unofficial smoke breaks have driven me to the point of insanity at certain points of my life (I have never been a smoker). I worked in a pizza joint for 12 years, and the owner was a smoker as well as several employees. Let me tell you how happy I was to watch the store solo for 10-15 minutes so 2 other people could go chat and smoke, somewhere between 3 and 6 times in an 8 hour shift. I work in a hospital now, and it's not as bad, but its still there. If you smoke, you can squeeze an extra break or 3 into your day to indulge in your habit. How is that fair to non smokers, who have to work harder to pick up the slack while the smokers are taking their breaks, and who get no extra breaks themselves?

If you'd rather take 3 10 minute breaks to smoke, pray, floss, jog, or whatever instead of a 30 minute lunch, then sure, that's fair (assuming the work doesn't have to stop when 1 person takes a break, assembly line, certain parts of construction, etc.).

If you want those breaks on top of your normal lunch, that's simply not fair to non smokers.
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My company mandates a 1 hour lunch every six hours and allows for two fifteen minute paid breaks. We are also allowed one five minute paid break an hour to go to the bathroom, get a cup of water, have a smoke, whatever you need to do to get focused. Employees actually work better when they are given frequent breaks like this to relax for a few minutes. Some abuse it but they usually get called out on it and no one keeps track of the amount of five minute breaks people take unless they are obviously abusing this system.

I know some industries don't have this luxury like assembly workers, cashiers, etc but if you can flex it into your employees work day they will be much happier and productive.
 
akrunner88 said:
My company mandates a 1 hour lunch every six hours and allows for two fifteen minute paid breaks. We are also allowed one five minute paid break an hour to go to the bathroom, get a cup of water, have a smoke, whatever you need to do to get focused. Employees actually work better when they are given frequent breaks like this to relax for a few minutes. Some abuse it but they usually get called out on it and no one keeps track of the amount of five minute breaks people take unless they are obviously abusing this system.

I know some industries don't have this luxury like assembly workers, cashiers, etc but if you can flex it into your employees work day they will be much happier and productive.
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All of that is great, and I agree with increasing morale and that it benefits the company. Those are official breaks though, which all employees are entitled too, regardless if they smoke or have to pray. As long as its fair and equal, its all good.
 
pinqy said:
Well, I think the issue is that people think all religious questions are First ammendment issues. This is not..this is a civil rights issue of reasonable accomodation.

An employer cannot make you have to choose between your job and your religion unless the accomodations you want would hurt the business.
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Do you have a source for this?
 
I found it...

WYSK: Workplace Religious Accommodation

1. Are employers required to accommodate the religious beliefs and practices of applicants and employees?

Yes. Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits employment discrimination based on religion. This includes refusing to accommodate an employee's sincerely held religious beliefs or practices unless the accommodation would impose an undue hardship (more than a minimal burden on operation of the business). A religious practice may be sincerely held by an individual even if newly adopted, not consistently observed, or different from the commonly followed tenets of the individual's religion.
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It would seem to me that employees requesting 2 additional 10 minute breaks beyond what everyone else receives would qualify as more than a "minimal burden".
 
It's a easy fix............ go work for yourself so you don't have to worry about what everyone else gets away with.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
Do you have a source for this?
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Title VII Civil Rights Act of 1964
(j) The term “religion” includes all aspects of religious observance and practice, as well as belief, unless an employer demonstrates that he is unable to reasonably accommodate to an employee’s or prospective employee’s religious observance or practice without undue hardship on the conduct of the employer’s business.
 
pinqy said:
Title VII Civil Rights Act of 1964
(j) The term “religion” includes all aspects of religious observance and practice, as well as belief, unless an employer demonstrates that he is unable to reasonably accommodate to an employee’s or prospective employee’s religious observance or practice without undue hardship on the conduct of the employer’s business.
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I found it earlier, but thank you.

I had read it before but couldn't remember the exact wording.
 
I am all for welcoming immigrants but people who are new to our Western society have to be willing to make SOME adjustments.
First, as mentioned before, there HAVE been NUMEROUS edicts and fatwahs issued both on the Sunni and Shi'ia side regarding prayer breaks and mainstream American Muslims figured out how to work this all out eons ago.
The Somalis do not deserve special consideration just because they haven't bothered to consult with other Muslims on this.

Second, the problems in Colorado are nothing new.
Same issues happened in Minneapolis years ago when large numbers of Somali cab drivers refused to pick up people with service dogs, or shoppers whose groceries contained any kind of alcohol or pork products.
There were also issues with grocery checkers who refused to ring up alcohol or pork products.

I can't say what Target did to deal with the recalcitrant checkers but Keith Ellison intervened with the airport cabble situation and the cabbies were told to start honoring such fares or look for another job.

Hey, I might be liberal but I'm NOT THAT liberal!
 
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