Revealed: the 30-year economic betrayal dragging down Generation Y’s income

Carjosse said:

It is the boomers who benefited from that, they benefited then ruined all those benefits for the next generations. According to Bloomberg college tuition costs have increased on average 1120% since 1978 alone. At least boomers could buy homes, we can only dream about it. Sure college was harder to get access in 1960 but it also was not necessary.

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The notion of college being necessary is probably one of the greatest lies American consumers have bought into. It isn't necessary for most lines of work, but many people mistakenly believe that it is. Once upon a time, when comparatively few people had college degrees, they were an investment. These days college degrees are a dime-a-dozen, the market is saturated with graduates who can't or don't know how to practically apply them, and they're not very cost-effective in terms of providing an edge in the job market.

Visbek said:

So your answer is... to whine about other people whining? Impressive.

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Not whining at all. I made a definitive statement without any emotional plea for any touchy feely crap.

As for the rest of your post, I stand by my previous post.

Beaudreaux said:

Not whining at all. I made a definitive statement without any emotional plea for any touchy feely crap.

As for the rest of your post, I stand by my previous post.

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Now you're whining about being accused of whining.

reinoe said:

I doubt millenials will actively make things harder for their children and grandchildren while at the same time talkind down to them but we'll have to wait and see.

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The Social Security Administration was created by Roosevelt in 1935.

The Social Security Administration (SSA) began life as the Social Security Board (SSB). The SSB was created at the moment President Roosevelt inked his signature on the Social Security Act (August 14, 1935 at 3:30 p.m.).

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This short statement tells us a few facts.
1. It was created in 1935, before "baby boomers" were born.
2. Roosevelt was a Democrat.

I think you are barking up the wrong tree here.

Renae said:

See we're talking about Student Loans, student loans are all through Uncle sam now...

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You were talking about the cost of college, not the cost of students loans

Besides, there's competition for student loans too. Almost all student loans are through banks

so... what part didn't you understand?

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The part where you lied. Why do you tell such stupid lies?

Napoleon said:

The notion of college being necessary is probably one of the greatest lies American consumers have bought into. It isn't necessary for most lines of work, but many people mistakenly believe that it is. Once upon a time, when comparatively few people had college degrees, they were an investment. These days college degrees are a dime-a-dozen, the market is saturated with graduates who can't or don't know how to practically apply them, and they're not very cost-effective in terms of providing an edge in the job market.

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Considering that so many "new" jobs in the US are in the "service industry", you are quite right, and even if manufacturing were to make a comeback, you would be right again.

sangha said:

You were talking about the cost of college, not the cost of students loans

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Sangha, I know you love trying sooooo hard to find that little out of context angle to trip people up here.... but student loans, being promised by the Government to PAY for college allows Colleges to jack the cost up because they KNOW they will get paid.

See how that works? Now go play your little games with some one else, you have failed once again with me. I know what your gig is and I reject it.

sangha said:

Besides, there's competition for student loans too. Almost all student loans are through banks



The part where you lied. Why do you tell such stupid lies?

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Feds take over student loan program from banks - SFGate

[h=1]Feds take over student loan program from banks[/h]President Obama will sign a bill today that ends a 45-year-old program under which banks and other private-sector lenders such as Sallie Mae receive a federal subsidy for making government-guaranteed college loans.
Instead, the U.S. Department of Education - which already makes roughly a third of these loans through its direct-lending program - will make 100 percent of them starting July 1.
The change will have a big impact on some lenders and colleges but relatively little on borrowers. They will continue to get the same loans - including Stafford loans for students and Plus loans for parents and graduate students - on largely the same terms.
Students who previously had to choose a private-sector lender for their guaranteed loans will now have only one choice: the government.

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See it helps when being snarky and playing games to know WTF you are talking about.

Have a nice life.

Carjosse said:

Real incomes for young adults have decreased while those for older boomers and the cost of living have increased dramatically. Goes to show the truly most selfish generation is the boomers.

From The Guardian:

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There were two major trends that have moved the economy. The creation of jobs in poor countries and the borrowing by governments. These have shaped OECD countries and the world enormously over the past 65 years. And it is hard to say that it is all bad that most Chinamen and Germans can feed their families now.

digsbe said:

Sure, I think there are plenty among the millennials that feel entitled and were babied. It seems the previous generation chose to raise kids to feel "special" and discourage negative feedback. Many others are naive and make poor choices.

However, college costs have gone up exponentially and beyond inflation. Starting wages have stayed stagnant or gone down and most employers want years of experience, if you're fresh out of school or younger you have to do some internship or work at a bottom level position not utilizing your degree. From a job perspective it's harder for millennials to build wealth and also typically carry college debt beyond what previous generations were burdened with. They'll likely turn to us to bail out social security and have interest rates on student loans as a means to rake in cash.

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But, why should anyone invest her money in youths without a better education, with less drive and at higher incomes that make them feel cheated than in India or the Philippines, where the workers are happy and willing? You would have to be nuts and your shareholders could sue you.

reinoe said:

That's one thing that I don't understand about Baby Boomers. They saddle younger generations with Social Security and Medicare Payments, they encourage jobs to be outsourced overseas so that younger generations can't get jobs, and they support speculation that increases home ownership costs. Then they piss and moan and whine about how younger generations are not doing doing X,Y, and Z while ignoring the fact that the baby boomers themselves have been making it harder and harder for their own children to make such achievements.

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Well, there are still people here that argue that it is fine to have government continue run up debt and pay for it by printing money.

ludin said:

also have to remember that most baby boomers went through the 70 and 80's in which you were earning 14+%
on your savings account. now you are lucky to get 1% while banks will charge your 30% interest on your CC.

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Saving's rates compared to mortgage rates would be a more apt comparison as long as we're talking about the good ole days.

Carjosse said:

Real incomes for young adults have decreased while those for older boomers and the cost of living have increased dramatically. Goes to show the truly most selfish generation is the boomers.

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Because they didn't give you their money? The problem is that we sent our jobs overseas over the past 30 years.

digsbe said:

Sure, I think there are plenty among the millennials that feel entitled and were babied. It seems the previous generation chose to raise kids to feel "special" and discourage negative feedback. Many others are naive and make poor choices.

However, college costs have gone up exponentially and beyond inflation. Starting wages have stayed stagnant or gone down and most employers want years of experience, if you're fresh out of school or younger you have to do some internship or work at a bottom level position not utilizing your degree. From a job perspective it's harder for millennials to build wealth and also typically carry college debt beyond what previous generations were burdened with. They'll likely turn to us to bail out social security and have interest rates on student loans as a means to rake in cash.

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You act like college is necessary. Wages have been stagnant since the neoliberal disease took over this country. "Bail out social security." You act like the government needs to "take from you" to bail out SS.

Carjosse said:

Real incomes for young adults have decreased while those for older boomers and the cost of living have increased dramatically. Goes to show the truly most selfish generation is the boomers.

From The Guardian:

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Welcome to the conservative argument. It's unfortunate that in the end Generation Y will be no kinder to Generation Z than he Baby Boomers were to them.

Carjosse said:

Real incomes for young adults have decreased while those for older boomers and the cost of living have increased dramatically. Goes to show the truly most selfish generation is the boomers.

From The Guardian:

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Hmmm... let me guess, the solution is to raise taxes!

Renae said:

Great, neither do I.


Hmmmm... I posted a link showing the rapid rise in costs ties in with the government take over of student loans.. HMMMM......

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Unfortunately for you, the article you posted said the government saved the student loan program and that the cost of funding and interest on loans is lower than the banks it replaced....





The government is doing exactly what it is supposed to do when the private sector can't or won't fill a public need.

Winchester said:

Saving's rates compared to mortgage rates would be a more apt comparison as long as we're talking about the good ole days.

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I do believe the average mortgage rate was like 17% in the 1970's or so, but you have to remember that bank accounts
were paying about the same people who worked and saved a ton during the 1970's/80's made out like a bandit in CD's, bond
and even on savings accounts.

in honesty it really set my generation up for the fall. savings and savings account where hugely stressed growing up while
the stock market was seen as this evil beast that should never be touched.

now our economy has switched. savings accounts are basically worthless. they are great if you just want a place to park your
money but other than that they are not investments.

they will not make you any money at all because the interest rates are so low on them that makes them worthless.
my generation didn't get the message until we were way older.

the economy has changed as well. it use to be you could get a factory job make 20 bucks an hour or so with 0 knowledge and 0 degree.
retire from that factory and be pretty well off if you invested your money.

now it requires degree's and other school to even get your foot in the door where it use to be word of mouth.
the economy and everything else has tightened a bit. I think it has been due to more government than the baby boomers though.

gdgyva said:

yeah...i guess the greatest generation had it made

those that actually lived at least

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Yes, a generation is more ethical and upstanding because they happened to be alive at a time when there was a huge war that killed millions of people -- including lots of innocent people.

far fewer men came back than went over.....and yeah, jobs were plentiful

a lot of families had no father...but i guess that really isnt important is it?

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It is -- to the Baby Boomers, another generation reviled by many.

and they lived in 1200-1400 sq feet houses....with few of the luxuries we now call necessities

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Someone has a better character, because they lived in a time before the mass proliferation of TVs and cell phones and Starbucks? Who knew?

they lived on their budgets....credit was scarce....when they really wanted something, they saved for it

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They became just as materialistic as later generations. If they weren't borrowing as heavily, it's mostly because many of those credit vehicles weren't invented yet.

It didn't hurt that they were able to earn decent wages without the massive debt burdens incurred by an expensive education; that automation in manufacturing was minimal; that it took the better part of 15 years for foreign competitors to rebuild their commercial manufacturing infrastructure (as theirs was bombed into nonexistence, while the US mainland was untouched by the war).

Ironically, the Greatest Generation (or more precisely, the leaders and management of companies in that era) largely squandered these post-war advantages. Lulled by the lack of competition, US manufacturing slid in innovation, creativity and quality; it also developed an antagonistic relationship with labor, which could not see its own inefficiencies. As a result, US industry got knocked on its keister when Japan and Germany were able to export goods again.

and if you want to compare the cost of a 4 year education in 1960 at those wages, with today be my guest

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lol... The cost of higher education has exceeded inflation since the 1980s.



Far fewer people went to college then -- in no small part because it wasn't necessary. You could get a decent-paying middle-income manufacturing job with just a high school diploma. This wasn't the case because the people living at that time were morally superior, or had a better character, or weren't as smart as later generations; it was largely a result of the conditions of that particular time.

No one chooses the world into which they were born. As such, either lionizing or vilifying entire generations doesn't often make sense.

Renae said:

Student Loan Subsidies Cause Almost All of the Increase in Tuition | Foundation for Economic Education

I have SCIENCE! On my side, and common sense.

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You do know though that this is an argument for more state/public education systems investment. more monies can cause higher demand in private schools, naturally, and they can gain more influence to funnel dollars towards them by legislation. You can see it in AZ with a guv who came from private industry, who luvs private industry, and is limiting spending to state institutions while signing tax cuts for private schools at the elementary to university levels.

Money can do good....and bad...depending on the target.

Part of the reason they're sitting on 1.3tn of student debt is BEACUSE their indulged. Got forbid you don't go to random out of state or private college just because you "really really want to".

Yes, it's not that all of them are indulged and spoiled and entitled, and even those that are aren't entirely at fault for their situation due to those factors, but to act like that notion is wrong and non-existent and doesn't play into some of what this article is talking about is laughable.

Napoleon said:

The notion of college being necessary is probably one of the greatest lies American consumers have bought into. It isn't necessary for most lines of work....

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We are now in a service economy. The days when you could earn a decent middle-class living with a high school diploma are largely over. Manufacturing was close to 40% of the workforce after WWII, and is now around 10%.

Not everyone necessarily needs a college education -- many people would likely benefit from something more specifically oriented towards a vocation. Still, you won't get far in the US today if all you have is a HS degree.

David_N said:

You act like college is necessary. Wages have been stagnant since the neoliberal disease took over this country.

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Wages went up from the 1940s through the 1970s. From the late 1970s on, wages have been flat for everyone except the top 5%. During that time, we had 8 years of Reagan, 4 years of Bush 41, 8 years of Bush 43. They were neoliberals? Who knew?

Visbek said:

We are now in a service economy. The days when you could earn a decent middle-class living with a high school diploma are largely over. Manufacturing was close to 40% of the workforce after WWII, and is now around 10%.

Not everyone necessarily needs a college education -- many people would likely benefit from something more specifically oriented towards a vocation. Still, you won't get far in the US today if all you have is a HS degree.

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The problem is a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts.
People think they need college to do X job, they go to college to get X job, this goes round and round, until today.
Where you don't need these degrees for many of the jobs requiring them.

Ideally I'd like to see the college bubble pop, people stop going as much and employers find better ways of recruiting talent.

Edit add: All this does is drown young people in debt when they never really needed to in the first place.

A college education is still a good value, but you have to look at the true
cost benefit analysis, of what you are paying for.
I think about the lowest price you can get a legitimate bachelors degree, is about $30K.
If the student does the first 2 years at a community college, Lives at home,
and sticks to a degree plan.
For most STEM majors, the minimum starting salaries are about 45K.
Still not a bad return on investment.
If on the other hand, the student bought the complete college experience,
the price could be $160K or higher, but the starting salary is about the same.
At the low end cost, the degree is a good value, at the higher end cost, it's like
starting life with an extra mortgage.

Harry Guerrilla said:

The problem is a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts.
People think they need college to do X job, they go to college to get X job, this goes round and round, until today.
Where you don't need these degrees for many of the jobs requiring them.

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Please re-read my post. I'm not saying everyone should go to college; many people will benefit more from a trade or vocational school than a college degree.

And which jobs in today's service economies do not need additional education, that require it anyway? Law? Medicine? Marketing? Graphic design? Computer programming, or network administrator?

Someone who graduates with a college degree into a recession may not have a choice but to do lower-skilled work. Eventually, they will eventually get a toehold in the career of their choice.