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Rubio prepares for brokered convention

HowardBThiname said:
That's a lot of wishful thinking, given the most recent polls.

I'm stunned Trump got this far, but I think another poster called it correctly....a lot of Americans are not admitting to be his supporters - while - in secret, they are his supporters.
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Not wishful thinking at all. If both Rubio and Cruz stay in the race, a brokered convention is likely after the first ballot because nobody will get the vote of a majority of delegates on the first ballot.
 
danarhea said:
People are saying that it shouldn't be Rubio, and they cite his inexperience, and say "Give him a few more years". They may have forgotten about someone named Barack Obama when they said that.
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:shrug: as much as I oppose him, he was effective in achieving his policy goals. Taxes are higher, government is bigger, and he got healthcare through. Rubio has more experience than Obama did. He wasn't my first candidate in this race (Walker was), but he is the one left.

I'm still going to vote for Gary Johnson, but IMHO, Rubio is the best choice for the GOP.
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Well it's up to you. But if you want to actually try to harm Trump, the way to do that in your state is to vote for Rubio.
 
cpwill said:
So, yeah. What Trump represents is American fascism. Historically more common in Democrat / Lefty circles, but it pops up in Republican ones as well.
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Guessing you've seen THIS from the Politico?

If I asked you what most defines Donald Trump supporters, what would you say? They’re white? They’re poor? They’re uneducated? You’d be wrong. In fact, I’ve found a single statistically significant variable predicts whether a voter supports Trump—and it’s not race, income or education levels: It’s authoritarianism.
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This is a WIN WIN situation for Democrats. If Trump continues to steamroll the opposition, he gains enough delegates to win on the first ballot and there is nothing to talk about.

If the rest of the party unites against Trump and somehow mathematically denies him a first ballot win by a rather comparatively small number of votes and then picks somebody else on subsequent ballots the convention - Trump bolts - gets his revenge by running on a third party ticket - the GOP fractures and splits into shreds - and its Happy Days Are Here Again as the FDR landslide theme song plays loudly all over the land in November.

This is shaping up to be a really great year.

GO DONALD!!!!!!!!
 
cpwill said:
:shrug: as much as I oppose him, he was effective in achieving his policy goals. Taxes are higher, government is bigger, and he got healthcare through. Rubio has more experience than Obama did. He wasn't my first candidate in this race (Walker was), but he is the one left.



Well it's up to you. But if you want to actually try to harm Trump, the way to do that in your state is to vote for Rubio.
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I plan to do that in the primary. No primary for Libertarians, as Johnson is the chosen one for that party.
 
Zyphlin said:
Guessing you've seen THIS from the Politico?
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Yes, I saw that a week or so ago and it rang very very true with me. Strong leader with that cartoon Mussolini face pose .... its sad.
 
Zyphlin said:
Guessing you've seen THIS from the Politico?
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I recall seeing the headline a while back. :( It fits.


We are taking an imminently winnable election, and we're going to have to burn it all up defeating a cancer in our own side, instead.
 
HowardBThiname said:
That's a lot of wishful thinking, given the most recent polls.

I'm stunned Trump got this far, but I think another poster called it correctly....a lot of Americans are not admitting to be his supporters - while - in secret, they are his supporters.
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If Trump has won the most delegates, can they just take them away from him? That would cause riots like we haven't seen before, because the voters are already P***ed at the establishment to begin with!
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
If the Gop want to stop trump at the convention, I think that would require the party establishment bending the rules of how delegates are awarded.
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And in doing that they destroy their own party.
 
disneydude said:
I wouldn't be so quick to discount it. I think the GOP is extremely unhappy with what they have right now and are willing to give Romney another look.
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Uhhh, nope, no freaking way.
 
disneydude said:
First on CNN: Marco Rubio prepares for contested convention - CNNPolitics.com


—Marco Rubio's campaign is preparing for a contested Republican Convention as one option to take the GOP nomination away from Donald Trump and Ted Cruz, his campaign manager told top donors at a closed-door meeting in Manhattan Wednesday night.

Marco Rubio super PAC hits Super Tuesday airwaves without rivals

As Rubio scrambles for support ahead of Super Tuesday, Terry Sullivan, Rubio's top adviser, used a Power Point presentation and took questions from attendees to lay out the two courses that Rubio's quest for the GOP nomination could take in the coming months, two people present told CNN, speaking anonymously to share details from a private meeting


It appears that Rubio is ready to concede that his only shot is if somehow he and Cruz can keep Trump from getting enough delegates to cause a brokered convention.


Honestly, the BEST thing that could happen to the Republicans right now is for a brokered convention to occur....where they can draft Romney as their candidate. There isn't a doubt in my mind that Romney (after Jeb dropped out) is kicking himself for not running....and is waiting in the wings to pick up the mantle.
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After Super Tuesday - Rubio will have pack it up and go home. Then perhaps he'll take a needed vacation and visit New Trump City, NY.
 
leoborn said:
If Trump has won the most delegates, can they just take them away from him?
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If he can't win a majority of delegates, then whoever wins the majority of delegates, becomes the nominee.

That would cause riots like we haven't seen before
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Probably not. We went through the race riots of the 1970s, the riots of the early 1990s, the riots in Baltimore, et al, and a century and a half and some change ago, we had a bit of a political fracas that involved the 4 years of war. But it would probably cause Trump and his fans to go nuclear, yes.
 
cpwill said:
Militant Nationalism wedded to Middle Class Socialism? Check.
Authoritarianism? Check
Support for Corporatist Economic Structures in order to bend private economic transactions to public purpose while benefiting politically connected industrialists? Check
Heavy demagogic use of betrayal narratives focused on identifiable and often unliked minority? Check.
Implicit or Explicit rejection of ideological parties in favor of Third Way / "Getting Things Done" and "Being A Man Who Does Things?" Check.
Strong-Man focus with corresponding Cult of Personality? Check.

So, yeah. What Trump represents is American fascism. Historically more common in Democrat / Lefty circles, but it pops up in Republican ones as well.



:lamo Nope. Trump is the most authoritarian person in this race, barely edging Hillary. No one else bullies like him, as publicly as him, as gleefully as him, and gets their fans to do so as well, as him.

If the Establishment were as authoritarian as Trump, they would have gotten their *&*$&! act together, and beaten him down by now. Instead, it turns out (as expected) they are a bunch of cowardly ninnies, afraid he might single them out and say nasty things about them on television (which, considering that some in his fan base would consider that a call to begin issuing death threats against their children, does make sense).
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I'm not tossing the RINO stuff around. I'm also not forgetting what happened in the Mississippi Senate race. Party establishment interference in that race betrays a certain lack of principles in election results. A much stronger authoritarian move than anything I've seen from Trump.

You are treading a very serious line with the implied Muslim/third way contention. The continuation of that parallel would result in more votes for Trump, not less.

Trump has to highlight his experience in business and getting things done. He has no government experience, he has to draw the parallel to demonstrate qualifications. I think you are crying wolf here to some extent.

As for the strong man/cult of personality thought, leaders frequently exert strong personalities. Maybe that is what has been lacking in the last few GOP Candidates. I don't think anyone can argue that McCain/Dole/Romney came across as strong leaders. I'm not going to go into the personality and dynamics of leadership, it is an entire section in the library.

I would lump a large portion of Trump support on rejection of the PC school of thought. It places entire leftist ideas and actions off limit from criticism. The GOP establishment completely buys into it. Its a huge problem when you let the other side declare what is off limits.

Lastly the establishment has been attempting to leverage candidates to oust Trump, but he isn't using their traditional roadmap so they haven't been successful in finding the candidate that can block him off. They and I am supposing, you, have found him in Rubio. He has certainly hurt Cruz.

I'm down for a back and forth cpwill. I know you are a solid conservative. Exchange of ideas doesn't make us enemies.

Even should Trump lose, I hope he makes the establishment rethink their capitulation to PC, its a terrible shutdown of open ideas and the idea that anything can be scrutinized.
 
Rubio claims Trump peed his pants yesterday during the debate.

LOL
 
OpportunityCost said:
I'm not tossing the RINO stuff around. I'm also not forgetting what happened in the Mississippi Senate race. Party establishment interference in that race betrays a certain lack of principles in election results. A much stronger authoritarian move than anything I've seen from Trump.

You are treading a very serious line with the implied Muslim/third way contention. The continuation of that parallel would result in more votes for Trump, not less.

Trump has to highlight his experience in business and getting things done. He has no government experience, he has to draw the parallel to demonstrate qualifications. I think you are crying wolf here to some extent.

As for the strong man/cult of personality thought, leaders frequently exert strong personalities. Maybe that is what has been lacking in the last few GOP Candidates. I don't think anyone can argue that McCain/Dole/Romney came across as strong leaders. I'm not going to go into the personality and dynamics of leadership, it is an entire section in the library.

I would lump a large portion of Trump support on rejection of the PC school of thought. It places entire leftist ideas and actions off limit from criticism. The GOP establishment completely buys into it. Its a huge problem when you let the other side declare what is off limits.

Lastly the establishment has been attempting to leverage candidates to oust Trump, but he isn't using their traditional roadmap so they haven't been successful in finding the candidate that can block him off. They and I am supposing, you, have found him in Rubio. He has certainly hurt Cruz.

I'm down for a back and forth cpwill. I know you are a solid conservative. Exchange of ideas doesn't make us enemies.

Even should Trump lose, I hope he makes the establishment rethink their capitulation to PC, its a terrible shutdown of open ideas and the idea that anything can be scrutinized.
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The part that I bolded should have been at the top. I think people are tired of their party folding to the Democrats in telling them what they should think and say.
 
NonoBadDog said:
The part that I bolded should have been at the top. I think people are tired of their party folding to the Democrats in telling them what they should think and say.
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I believe in closing with a strong transition rather than a strong opening, call me weird :cool:
 
Zyphlin said:
Guessing you've seen THIS from the Politico?
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As I said in an earlier post, that will backfire. They actually use the Nazi comparison in that article. There is a hell of a lot more to Nazism than authoritarianism, and the hell of a lot more is very, very ugly. You need to bring more to the table than rhetoric to make that comparison and not have it blow up in your face.
 
Bucky said:
Rubio claims Trump peed his pants yesterday during the debate.

LOL
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Well Rubio was down at that level where Trump's crotch was all that he could see. :mrgreen:
 
OpportunityCost said:
As I said in an earlier post, that will backfire. They actually use the Nazi comparison in that article. There is a hell of a lot more to Nazism than authoritarianism, and the hell of a lot more is very, very ugly. You need to bring more to the table than rhetoric to make that comparison and not have it blow up in your face.
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It's an article written by a PhD candidate who has somehow made it far enough in his program to be writing up his dissertation while at the same time making moronic statements like "one variable was far more significant than the other" showing that he doesn't even have an introduction to statistics level of understanding on what to do with the data he collected.

I definitely wouldn't read too much into what he has to say.
 
OpportunityCost said:
I'm not tossing the RINO stuff around. I'm also not forgetting what happened in the Mississippi Senate race.
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Oh, don't get me wrong. I was livid at that. It was a complete betrayal, and a use of Democrat demagoguery against an actual conservative by a complete and utter tool. I believe I said at the time that I hoped he lost the General election, and that the loss of that seat cost Republicans the Senate.

Party establishment interference in that race betrays a certain lack of principles in election results. A much stronger authoritarian move than anything I've seen from Trump.
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....no. Funding and backing one candidate over another is not an authoritarian move. Identifying female reporters who say something you don't like so that you can get a crowd to turn on them in order to threaten the rest of the press is authoritarian.

You are treading a very serious line with the implied Muslim/third way contention
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Muslim? I said nothing about Muslims. "Third Way" is how Fascists often present themselves, as a shake-up to the standard political structure, as an alternative to the two-side/two-party system, etc. "I'm not ideological, I just get things done" is the Third Way Fascist self-description.

The continuation of that parallel would result in more votes for Trump, not less.
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:shrug: if so, then that says nothing good about his voters.

Trump has to highlight his experience in business and getting things done. He has no government experience, he has to draw the parallel to demonstrate qualifications. I think you are crying wolf here to some extent.
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Trump has built his entire campaign on strong-manism. Why are they behind him? Because he's a bully. Because Trump will smash you down, Because Trump will smash all of them down, Because Trump is strong, Because Trump is Rich, Because Trump is Powerful, Because Trump is Able To Take Them All On, etc.

As for the strong man/cult of personality thought, leaders frequently exert strong personalities. Maybe that is what has been lacking in the last few GOP Candidates. I don't think anyone can argue that McCain/Dole/Romney came across as strong leaders. I'm not going to go into the personality and dynamics of leadership, it is an entire section in the library.
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Being a strong leaders is not at all the same as a cult of personality. Cults of personality do not care what policy position the leader takes, they only worship the leader for his own attributes. Strong Leaders can be either the centers of personality cults, or strong leaders for particular causes. Trump has no cause but his own, no fixed policy point, no identifiable consistent ideology, other than self-aggrandizement.

Ted Cruz (for good or ill) is leading a movement because he is at the head of a push for particular ideological goals. Donald Trump is leading personality cult, which has no goals other than the furtherance of Donald Trump.

I would lump a large portion of Trump support on rejection of the PC school of thought. It places entire leftist ideas and actions off limit from criticism. The GOP establishment completely buys into it. Its a huge problem when you let the other side declare what is off limits.

Lastly the establishment has been attempting to leverage candidates to oust Trump, but he isn't using their traditional roadmap so they haven't been successful in finding the candidate that can block him off. They and I am supposing, you, have found him in Rubio. He has certainly hurt Cruz.

I'm down for a back and forth cpwill. I know you are a solid conservative. Exchange of ideas doesn't make us enemies.

Even should Trump lose, I hope he makes the establishment rethink their capitulation to PC, its a terrible shutdown of open ideas and the idea that anything can be scrutinized.
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I have to run. But I concur with you on PC. But you should note that things create reactions - Donald will create a massive PC backlash as well, especially if (as is likely) he loses the General.
 
disneydude said:
Honestly, the BEST thing that could happen to the Republicans right now is for a brokered convention to occur....where they can draft Romney as their candidate.
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Not a real smart idea and not very democratic IMHO. The screams of "Rigged!" will never end...and that'll be just from voters. And Trump will egg them on....and probably seek legal action of some sort.

It's better that the RNC just accept Trump as their nominee (if he's pretty much far ahead by the time the Convention rolls around) and avoid any unpleasantness.
 
cpwill said:
:shrug: a majority of Republican's don't want Trump. All we have to do is get it to a contested convention.
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Correction: Republican Party Leaders don't want Trump. Alot of Republican Voters do want him.
 
cpwill said:
Oh, don't get me wrong. I was livid at that. It was a complete betrayal, and a use of Democrat demagoguery against an actual conservative by a complete and utter tool. I believe I said at the time that I hoped he lost the General election, and that the loss of that seat cost Republicans the Senate.....no. Funding and backing one candidate over another is not an authoritarian move. Identifying female reporters who say something you don't like so that you can get a crowd to turn on them in order to threaten the rest of the press is authoritarian.
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I see that as the authoritarian move, not who the establishment picked but how they chose to "support" him. Inability to cede power in an election betrays a very large authoritarian bent.
Has Fox asked Rubio about his gang of eight votes and decision? Not near as much as Trump has been pressured about less damaging things.

Muslim? I said nothing about Muslims. "Third Way" is how Fascists often present themselves, as a shake-up to the standard political structure, as an alternative to the two-side/two-party system, etc. "I'm not ideological, I just get things done" is the Third Way Fascist self-description.
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cpwill, don't play me for a dummy. You know the implication is there.



:shrug: if so, then that says nothing good about his voters.
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You misunderstand. Portraying someone as a Nazi or even implying it has a negative rallying effect. People tend to recoil at even the implication.


Trump has built his entire campaign on strong-manism. Why are they behind him? Because he's a bully. Because Trump will smash you down, Because Trump will smash all of them down, Because Trump is strong, Because Trump is Rich, Because Trump is Powerful, Because Trump is Able To Take Them All On, etc.
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No. He's built on being able to win.



Being a strong leaders is not at all the same as a cult of personality. Cults of personality do not care what policy position the leader takes, they only worship the leader for his own attributes. Strong Leaders can be either the centers of personality cults, or strong leaders for particular causes. Trump has no cause but his own, no fixed policy point, no identifiable consistent ideology, other than self-aggrandizement.

Ted Cruz (for good or ill) is leading a movement because he is at the head of a push for particular ideological goals. Donald Trump is leading personality cult, which has no goals other than the furtherance of Donald Trump.

I have to run. But I concur with you on PC. But you should note that things create reactions - Donald will create a massive PC backlash as well, especially if (as is likely) he loses the General.
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Maybe.
 
Rubio prepares for brokered convention
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every time there's a field of dud candidates, the brokered convention masturbation fantasy comes out. it almost never happens, because it destroys the party. the Republican party is more likely to lose with a brokered Rubio than it is with an unfit for office but popular Trump. i realize that the party higher ups on both sides are less than apt, but if i figured this out, others have figured it out, too.
 
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