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AR-15 Gun-Maker Seeks To Dismiss Lawsuit Filed By Sandy Hook Parents

JANFU said:
And from what i recall used as a sniper rifle as well.
Hell of a recoil, I assume as never fired one.
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Recoil's not as bad as you'd think. I shot an 8 gauge shotgun with slug shell that was a hell of a lot worse, almost took my shoulder off.
 
Lutherf said:
I'm all for letting this suit go ahead provided the following suites can also be brought against various manufacturers of dangerous products.
1. Car manufacturers can be sued when the vehicles they make are used in crimes including speeding, DUI, vehicular homicide, parking in front of a fire hydrant and driving around on bald tires.
2. Spoon manufacturers can be sued by people who stuff their face and get diabetes
3. Shoe manufacturers can be sued by people who trip and twist an ankle
4. Scissors manufacturers can be sued by people who slip and poke their eye out
5. Toaster manufacturers can be sued by people who get burns on their fingers and/or electrocute themselves in the bathtub
6. Hammer manufacturers can be sued by people who bludgeon someone to death with their product
7. Lawyers can be sued by people who failed to take their advice and commit a crime anyway
8. Politicians can be sued when bad stuff happens to good people they were elected to keep safe
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Yeah but you don't sue a semi-truck manufacturer when someone plows one through a residence, school or business, you sue the driver.
 
TurtleDude said:
I am not in the US Military but I certainly know who to use and strip an AKM, An AK47, a STEYR AUG, FN-FAL, Swedish K SMGs, a UZI SMG, a GALIL assault rifle etc

My nephew, a Major, USA, First special forces division, is familiar with just about any small arm he might encounter. in some missions, US military have used

Chinese made AKs, Swedish made "K" SMGs, Czech variations of the AK platform, HK rifles etc.
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Well I did not, nor did we train on those weapons. If we had i would be able to.
Myself, Pistol, 9 MM, C1, C2, C6, C7, C9, GPMG, 50 Cal MG.
All Canadian military.
And to my delight, a friend was the BSM in the Artillery I served with, M109, got to do a round down range on that. Deafening to say the least.
 
TurtleDude said:
I am not in the US Military but I certainly know who to use and strip an AKM, An AK47, a STEYR AUG, FN-FAL, Swedish K SMGs, a UZI SMG, a GALIL assault rifle etc

My nephew, a Major, USA, First special forces division, is familiar with just about any small arm he might encounter. in some missions, US military have used

Chinese made AKs, Swedish made "K" SMGs, Czech variations of the AK platform, HK rifles etc.
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Have you ever fired a Belgium Herstal FN P90? Expensive to fire - goes through ammo quick. Fun though.
 
Soho gator said:
Looks like the company is in deep doo doo. Desperate attempt to get lawsuit dismissed will not fly
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cool does that mean someone can sue ford because a drunk driver hits them?
because well that is the same umbrella that is being used here.
 
Beaudreaux said:
Recoil's not as bad as you'd think. I shot an 8 gauge shotgun with slug shell that was a hell of a lot worse, almost took my shoulder off.
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wow-those are ancient. 10G is the biggest you see commercially available

A famous elephant hunter was asked why he used a 600 nitro express and he said it was because Holland and Holland didn't make a 700 nitro. BTW the 700 nitro was built in the 1980s . apparently loads for these monsters can cost up to 100 bucks a shot! (and has ten times the recoil of a 762 NATO main battle rifle cartridge)
 
Beaudreaux said:
Recoil's not as bad as you'd think. I shot an 8 gauge shotgun with slug shell that was a hell of a lot worse, almost took my shoulder off.
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Our C1 - 7.62 mm had a good recoil- saw a few who leaned their faces on the butt when firing, told not to, but some never listen, hell of a bruise left on their face.
 
Beaudreaux said:
Have you ever fired a Belgium Herstal FN P90? Expensive to fire - goes through ammo quick. Fun though.
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only the semi auto. until recently Ohio only allowed 30 round magazines and the standard issue with those was 50 but there were a few at the range where I shoot for rental. I haven't seen a full auto version
 
JANFU said:
Our C1 - 7.62 mm had a good recoil- saw a few who leaned their faces on the butt when firing, told not to, but some never listen, hell of a bruise left on their face.
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isn't the C1 pretty much the same as an FN-FAL or a British LIA1?
 
JANFU said:
How easy-hard is it to turn this version into an automatic?
Semi auto- as they say - fires as fast as you can pull a trigger-
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you have to know what you are doing.
you have to change out the firing ping, you also have to change out
the gasket used and you have to machine I think it is the lower receiver.

it isn't an easy process. you can buy the parts online but the process is highly
expensive and frankly not worth the effort. MG after 1986 are illegal unless you have the license.
the autosear for an ar15 runs about 15-18k dollars not including the tax and license which is
like another 10k.

it would cost you less to find a black market dealer.
 
ludin said:
you have to know what you are doing.
you have to change out the firing ping, you also have to change out
the gasket used and you have to machine I think it is the lower receiver.

it isn't an easy process. also I don't think you can even buy the parts to do it online
as it is illegal to convert that weapon to an automatic without the proper licensing. which is
highly expensive. even obtaining the parts are expensive.

it would cost you less to find a black market dealer.
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to do it legally you'd have to have a 'registered sear' which was registered with ATF before May 19, 1986

you cannot legally convert a newly made AR to full auto unless the sear was made before may 19, 1986
 
ludin said:
you have to know what you are doing.
you have to change out the firing ping, you also have to change out
the gasket used and you have to machine I think it is the lower receiver.

it isn't an easy process. you can buy the parts online but the process is highly
expensive and frankly not worth the effort. MG after 1986 are illegal unless you have the license.
the autosear for an ar15 runs about 15-18k dollars not including the tax and license which is
like another 10k.

it would cost you less to find a black market dealer.
Click to expand...

Thank you.
 
TurtleDude said:
to do it legally you'd have to have a 'registered sear' which was registered with ATF before May 19, 1986

you cannot legally convert a newly made AR to full auto unless the sear was made before may 19, 1986
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yep that is what I figured.
 
JANFU said:
Thank you.
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also as TD noted and I knew but forgot. any MG has to be prior to 1986. anything after 1986 is illegal to own.
also your state has to allow them as well.

full transferable MG are pretty hard to find and bloody expensive.
 
JANFU said:
My error- FNC1
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AH ok, I have shot those-they are NATO 556 caliber weapons while the C1 is 762 NATO.

yeah I have shot those too but not ones with full auto switches. they were somewhat easy to buy in the states in the mid to late 80s but never caught on since they were heavy for that caliber and a bit more money than the colt rifles. I have a Beretta AR 70 which also was available about the same time and never really caught on either.
 
ludin said:
also as TD noted and I knew but forgot. any MG has to be prior to 1986. anything after 1986 is illegal to own.
also your state has to allow them as well.

full transferable MG are pretty hard to find and bloody expensive.
Click to expand...

in 1985 I could buy a HK MP SMG for under 2200 dollars, a sten gun for under 400 (which is 100 times more than it cost to make them in 1944) and a Tommy gun for about 4500-and this was for transferable registered weapons.

Now

HK MP5-at least 15,000

Sten Gun At least 5000,

Thompson-well the last one I saw for sale (that actually sold) was 25K
 
TurtleDude said:
wow-those are ancient. 10G is the biggest you see commercially available

A famous elephant hunter was asked why he used a 600 nitro express and he said it was because Holland and Holland didn't make a 700 nitro. BTW the 700 nitro was built in the 1980s . apparently loads for these monsters can cost up to 100 bucks a shot! (and has ten times the recoil of a 762 NATO main battle rifle cartridge)
Click to expand...

I shot it once. It's owned by an attorney buddy of mine that bought it on a hunt in Africa. We were at another buddy's gravel pit pinging targets, shooting skeet, and so forth. He pulled that damned thing out and, although I'm not a small guy, I had a time holding it up without a "Y" to help hold it up. He warned me, but I got a bruise (many shades of purple and some shiny places that were pure black) that went almost down to elbow on the inside of my arm and half way across my chest. Only thing I can figure is I must have let it move away from my shoulder right when I pulled the trigger. Saying it hurt would be the understatement of the century. You're right about the price for the shots. The ones he had were copper around the charge and cardboard around the wadding and projectile. When it fired, there was a huge cloud. It rained flaming cardboard and wadding for yards past the barrel.

I love guns, but I'll never fire one of those again. I have the memory of both the gun and the pain that will last me just fine.
 
TurtleDude said:
only the semi auto. until recently Ohio only allowed 30 round magazines and the standard issue with those was 50 but there were a few at the range where I shoot for rental. I haven't seen a full auto version
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Semi-auto is the fun one. Full auto is hard to control and little discomforting with high velocity rounds. Sounds cool though - like a mini-A10 Warthog in your hands.
 
TurtleDude said:
AH ok, I have shot those-they are NATO 556 caliber weapons while the C1 is 762 NATO.

yeah I have shot those too but not ones with full auto switches. they were somewhat easy to buy in the states in the mid to late 80s but never caught on since they were heavy for that caliber and a bit more money than the colt rifles. I have a Beretta AR 70 which also was available about the same time and never really caught on either.
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C1 had great stopping power compared to the 5.56.
But today's army carries more ammo, so 7.62 rd is extra weight compared to the 7.62
 
Shot a tripod mounted 50 cal once.

Now saying where or how and I'm certain its at the bottom of a lake somewhere now and not in any way recoverable for registration as such....
 
TurtleDude said:
in 1985 I could buy a HK MP SMG for under 2200 dollars, a sten gun for under 400 (which is 100 times more than it cost to make them in 1944) and a Tommy gun for about 4500-and this was for transferable registered weapons.

Now

HK MP5-at least 15,000

Sten Gun At least 5000,

Thompson-well the last one I saw for sale (that actually sold) was 25K
Click to expand...

Here's a Thompson 1928 A22 .22LR Sub Machine Gun - Impact Guns that's a .22 Long Rifle:
 
Beaudreaux said:
I shot it once. It's owned by an attorney buddy of mine that bought it on a hunt in Africa. We were at another buddy's gravel pit pinging targets, shooting skeet, and so forth. He pulled that damned thing out and, although I'm not a small guy, I had a time holding it up without a "Y" to help hold it up. He warned me, but I got a bruise (many shades of purple and some shiny places that were pure black) that went almost down to elbow on the inside of my arm and half way across my chest. Only thing I can figure is I must have let it move away from my shoulder right when I pulled the trigger. Saying it hurt would be the understatement of the century. You're right about the price for the shots. The ones he had were copper around the charge and cardboard around the wadding and projectile. When it fired, there was a huge cloud. It rained flaming cardboard and wadding for yards past the barrel.

I love guns, but I'll never fire one of those again. I have the memory of both the gun and the pain that will last me just fine.
Click to expand...

when I was 17 we hunted in Kenya with the famous White Hunter Steve Smith who was later killed in South Africa in a traffic accident (after surviving fire fights with Rommels Afrika Corp, over 100 lion charges, gun battles with poachers and being the Military District Inspector who helped crush the Mau Mau rebellion). He let me shoot his 458 Winchester rifle used for elephants, Rhinos and Buffalo. Since I was an experienced skeet shooter I knew to lean into the rifle and while it kicked hard it didn't hurt. However, Smith told me one time he was trying to take out a mankiller lion and he and his gun bearer (a former Sargent Major who had served under him when he was a military officer) were in a tunnel of brush waiting for the lion when the lion came in the rear of the tunnel. He flipped his rifle over and shot it backwards over his shoulder, It was either a 458 or a 375 H&H magnum. the bullet hit the lion between its jaw line and its nose and essentially split its skull in half. He broke his wrist and his assistant couldn't hear for a couple days since the muzzle was over his head when Steve shot the critter.

He told me NEVER EVER shoot a 458 from a prone position!
 
JANFU said:
C1 had great stopping power compared to the 5.56.
But today's army carries more ammo, so 7.62 rd is extra weight compared to the 7.62
Click to expand...

yeah your average soldier can carry 9 30 round 556 magazines while on the old M14 which also was 762 NATO, 8 20 round magazines weight the same

so 270 rounds of M193 ball was considered more effective than 160 rounds of 762Nato
 
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