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Oregon standoff ends after 41 days with dramatic surrender

DA60 said:
But waiting to what end? What if they will never come out on their own? Are you going to let them stay forever? And there is no way to know how long they will stay. So if you are probably going to have to force them out eventually, why not do it right away?
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Forever is a long time. These guys didn't even make it a month. But, judging by the recent indictment handed down to Cliven Bundy for his idiocy in Nevada, I'm certain that within that month the Oregon folks racked up about a dozen additional felony charges.

Works for me.

And again, if the occupiers threaten violence against the police, then they deserve everything they get.

To me, it is simple. Remove them immediately...breaking the law is breaking the law. If they go peacefully, remove them peacefully. If they resist with non-lethal force, then remove them with non-lethal force (if possible). If they threaten to/start to shoot, remove them with any means necessary. You cannot just threaten to shoot cops. But get them out of there immediately.

And the faster you remove them, the less likely someone else will try something similar.
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I'd agree if they truly were in the way of someone conducting business or visiting the center for recreation or if lives were in danger. But, the place was shut down for the winter. So, waiting them out, racking up additional charges and apprehending them in a reasonably peaceful manner instead of risking a shootout which would probably destroy the building to save it seems reasonable.
 
X Factor said:
There seems to be some truth to that. Not nearly enough blood for some of their tastes to be sure.
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Actually it seems like a lot of conservatives are sad because they think others wanted someone to get shot, and now they can't stop blathering about it.
 
calamity said:
Forever is a long time. These guys didn't even make it a month. But, judging by the recent indictment handed down to Cliven Bundy for his idiocy in Nevada, I'm certain that within that month the Oregon folks racked up about a dozen additional felony charges.

Works for me.


I'd agree if they truly were in the way of someone conducting business or visiting the center for recreation or if lives were in danger. But, the place was shut down for the winter. So, waiting them out, racking up additional charges and apprehending them in a reasonably peaceful manner instead of risking a shootout which would probably destroy the building to save it seems reasonable.
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Fine...you would wait them out.

I would not.

So be it.
 
DA60 said:
I didn't say go in guns blazing. I said force them out. If they start shooting at the cops, then shoot the occupiers...as police would do under any circumstances.

I don't care what kind of facility it was, it is government property.

And what possible good does it do to let them stay there for weeks/months? What if they refuse to come out no matter what? Eventually you are going to have to force them out - might as well do it sooner rather then later.

Plus, if you force them out right away, it discourages any others from trying something similar.


You disagree? Fine.
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I agree if they were just waiting to be "peaceful" but as someone pointed out in another thread, they were possibly waiting to find out how many were involved in total, to make an arrest of the whole group and not just the initial occupiers.
However. I would agree that even if you are staking out the bad guys to see if more bad guys show up, over a month seems pretty excessive.
You don't just let criminals sit and occupy a Federal building no matter what the building is. There was already one injury (I think it was reported it wasn't a fatality) so why give them time to do even more harm, whether its destruction of property, hurting themselves or others, or rallying up enough people to actually do harm (nobody took that bait thankfully but nonetheless why chance it)?

I didn't want this to go bloody but, honestly, letting the crooks get there way for even a week is too long to avoid "possible" resistance (it also stinks of garnering news attention).

Just my two Abrahams.

Edit: Why did this become about conservatives or liberals? Are you people really so thick and short sighted that you really just see red and blue in any given situation?
 
beefheart said:
Actually it seems like a lot of conservatives are sad because they think others wanted someone to get shot, and now they can't stop blathering about it.
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It's just interesting what gets y'all's blood boiling and what doesn't. Certain types of terrorism - naw. Rioting, looting and destroying property - not so much. Cops being executed and shot at for being cops - *yawn* whatever. Oh but in this situation, not one of you would have questioned the actions of the police had there been a high body count and many of you seem to resent that there wasn't. To each their own.
 
X Factor said:
Lol. Right.
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Yes...right.

Only a jerk would want anyone to die.


And, if in future you are going to ask me a question but ignore my answer and insert your own...just save us both the effort and don't bother to ask the question please.

We are done here.


Good day.
 
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beefheart said:
Actually it seems like a lot of conservatives are sad because they think others wanted someone to get shot, and now they can't stop blathering about it.
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After reading this thread I agree.
 
DA60 said:
Yes...right.

Only a jerk would want anyone to die.


Good day.
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Well, at least try to stop acting so disappointed that there wasn't more violent force used.
 
X Factor said:
It's just interesting what gets y'all's blood boiling and what doesn't. Certain types of terrorism - naw. Rioting, looting and destroying property - not so much. Cops being executed and shot at for being cops - *yawn* whatever. Oh but in this situation, not one of you would have questioned the actions of the police had there been a high body count and many of you seem to resent that there wasn't. To each their own.
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Big difference in a cop shooting a 12 year old kid within 5 seconds of pulling up on the scene and a bunch of seditious hillbillies with guns strapped all over them breaking into a federal facility and setting up a phony court to try officials, saying they will defend the site to their death and calling for "patriots" across the nation to join them as they wish to overthrow the government.

Don't you think?
 
DA60 said:
I didn't say go in guns blazing. I said force them out. If they start shooting at the cops, then shoot the occupiers...as police would do under any circumstances.

I don't care what kind of facility it was, it is government property.

And what possible good does it do to let them stay there for weeks/months? What if they refuse to come out no matter what? Eventually you are going to have to force them out - might as well do it sooner rather then later.

Plus, if you force them out right away, it discourages any others from trying something similar.


You disagree? Fine.
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The situation was handled correctly. Wait, try to negotiate, arrests as they left, 1 dead in that. The rest were locked in. Many left after the arrests- killing. A few stayed, wait them out. They were not going anywhere.
 
beefheart said:
Big difference in a cop shooting a 12 year old kid within 5 seconds of pulling up on the scene and a bunch of seditious hillbillies with guns strapped all over them breaking into a federal facility and setting up a phony court to try officials, saying they will defend the site to their death and calling for "patriots" across the nation to join them as they wish to overthrow the government.

Don't you think?
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Imagine how many additional felonies these clowns racked up by doing that. My guess is that the idiot who whined about having to do another 2 years on the arson charge will rue the day he started this mess. I predict 25 years, minimum.
 
beefheart said:
Big difference in a cop shooting a 12 year old kid within 5 seconds of pulling up on the scene and a bunch of seditious hillbillies with guns strapped all over them breaking into a federal facility and setting up a phony court to try officials, saying they will defend the site to their death and calling for "patriots" across the nation to join them as they wish to overthrow the government.

Don't you think?
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So you're actually just agreeing with me. You would have been fine with whatever occurred here and it has zero to do with threatening cops, because you don't really mind that, and everything to do with who these people are. I'd say I'm sorry you didn't get all you were hoping for, but that wouldn't be honest. Better luck next time. ;)
 
X Factor said:
Well, at least try to stop acting so disappointed that there wasn't more violent force used.
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David Fry is schizophrenic, he said so yesterday as he was holding out on surrender, he was off his meds, and was ranting and raving and was suicidal at the least, and was a clear danger to the LEO's on scene as well. But, law enforcement shone in this case, they listened, they talked him down, they ended the situation peacefully. Same with the take down of the Bundy brothers, they complied and surrendered. Had Finicum done the same, he would be breathing today, but he was hell bent on dying for a stupid cause, he clearly reached for a weapon in a very tense situation, and he got shot because of it.

Although this entire situation took too long, it was handled very well, and, the militants found out that there no masses of people willing to go and support them, rather, they were mocked by social media, they asked for food, they got giant dildos. The fringe found out that they are indeed the fringe. There should be a lot of promotions for the people that handled this situation, it is one that will be used for training.

Also....it seems that the militants left booby traps at the reserve, what cowards. Militants warn authorities about booby traps left behind at Oregon reserve
 
X Factor said:
So you're actually just agreeing with me. You would have been fine with whatever occurred here and it has zero to do with threatening cops, because you don't really mind that, and everything to do with who these people are. I'd say I'm sorry you didn't get all you were hoping for, but that wouldn't be honest. Better luck next time. ;)
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Ah, another baseless cheap shot by you. Imagine that.:roll:
 
calamity said:
Imagine how many additional felonies these clowns racked up by doing that. My guess is that the idiot who whined about having to do another 2 years on the arson charge will rue the day he started this mess. I predict 25 years, minimum.
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I am eternally grateful that Jon Ritzheimer is in jail. He is dangerous, he is messed up in the head, and he is violent, and he lives in my city. It was only a matter of time before someone got hurt. Evidently he believed that going to Oregon and breaking the law was much more important than having an actual job and supporting his wife and 2 young children. What kind of man does that? These militants were all dangerous and sick.
 
calamity said:
Imagine how many additional felonies these clowns racked up by doing that. My guess is that the idiot who whined about having to do another 2 years on the arson charge will rue the day he started this mess. I predict 25 years, minimum.
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Are you talking about the Hammonds? If so, I'm a pretty sure they weren't involved at all in this except as a name drop, a chance to claim some sort of excuse for being there. They made damn sure to not only distance themselves from this occupation completely but also to go back to jail quietly without any resistance at all.
 
beefheart said:
I am eternally grateful that Jon Ritzheimer is in jail. He is dangerous, he is messed up in the head, and he is violent, and he lives in my city. It was only a matter of time before someone got hurt. Evidently he believed that going to Oregon and breaking the law was much more important than having an actual job and supporting his wife and 2 young children. What kind of man does that? These militants were all dangerous and sick.
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And, it looks like the government is cracking down on them for riling up the natives. Good.

Now they need to go round up the Black Lives Matter idiots who are pushing people to kill cops. Not the peaceful folks holding prayer vigils, but the seditious bastards screaming, "Burn this bitch down!"
 
beefheart said:
Ah, another baseless cheap shot by you. Imagine that.:roll:
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Dude, you call these guys worthless hillbillies or something and I get to be skeptical of your worthless (in my view) speeches.
 
roguenuke said:
Are you talking about the Hammonds? If so, I'm a pretty sure they weren't involved at all in this except as a name drop, a chance to claim some sort of excuse for being there. They made damn sure to not only distance themselves from this occupation completely but also to go back to jail quietly without any resistance at all.
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I didn't know that. That was a smart move on their part.

Thanks.
 
X Factor said:
Dude, you call these guys worthless hillbillies or something and I get to be skeptical of your worthless (in my view) speeches.
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Did you ever listen to the ignorant paranoid dog-squeeze they were putting out?

I doubt that they were in the debate club at Harvard.

Nor do I care a whit that you are skeptical of my views, I have no desire to win you over on anything.
 
beefheart said:
David Fry is schizophrenic, he said so yesterday as he was holding out on surrender, he was off his meds, and was ranting and raving and was suicidal at the least, and was a clear danger to the LEO's on scene as well. But, law enforcement shone in this case, they listened, they talked him down, they ended the situation peacefully. Same with the take down of the Bundy brothers, they complied and surrendered. Had Finicum done the same, he would be breathing today, but he was hell bent on dying for a stupid cause, he clearly reached for a weapon in a very tense situation, and he got shot because of it.

Although this entire situation took too long, it was handled very well, and, the militants found out that there no masses of people willing to go and support them, rather, they were mocked by social media, they asked for food, they got giant dildos. The fringe found out that they are indeed the fringe. There should be a lot of promotions for the people that handled this situation, it is one that will be used for training.

Also....it seems that the militants left booby traps at the reserve, what cowards. Militants warn authorities about booby traps left behind at Oregon reserve
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This was beautifully handled. It could have been a disaster if handled in a ham-fisted way...but it wasn't.

Law enforcement showed itself at its best.

The occupiers deserve a fair trial...and if found guilty, they should receive a stiff penalty.
 
beefheart said:
Did you ever listen to the ignorant paranoid dog-squeeze they were putting out?

I doubt that they were in the debate club at Harvard.

Nor do I care a whit that you are skeptical of my views, I have no desire to win you over on anything.
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I can honestly say that I paid them very little attention. I'm serious when I said earlier that I thought the whole thing ended awhile back. I just noticed a major difference in your attitude regarding these guys and other people who you immediately rush to defend, that's all.
 
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